17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

[suzihawk]

Trayvon was a 17 yr. old teenager. Was Trayvon referred to as a child before his death? No, IMO, he was referred to as a teenager. Why after this incident/his death, are people now referring to him as a child. :waitasec:

Umm... because he WAS.

I don't, for the life of me, know why we keep having to have this silly and senseless debate. Unless it's to illustrate that somehow he is less of a victim due to his age. ????????

 

[cityslick]

I'd like to read it in it's entirety as well, but this article from the Orlando Sentinel with information from a leaked source gives a clear indication that he told essentially the same tale as his father and brother.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

Also, if you go to this post of mine, you can see an attachment from the City Manager of Sanford, verifying the Sentinel story as being accurate as to it's content.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #24

Thanks. There's not a whole lot of detail in that article and I don't see anything about 'broken nose', just that he was bleeding from the nose.

 

[Adrienne37]

Umm... because he WAS.

I don't, for the life of me, know why we keep having to have this silly and senseless debate. Unless it's to illustrate that somehow he is less of a victim due to his age. ????????

That's exactly the reason for it in my most humble opinion.

 

[grammieto5]

As has been stated many times before, Trayvon was not a child. Please post links to support your statement I have bolded. ~Thanks~

I disagree, Trayvon WAS 17 years old, GZ IS 28 years old. In this situation Trayvon WAS closer to be a child then an adult.

 

[Donjeta]

Grandmaj, I think the story about Trayvon walking up to Zimmerman's vehicle is the story that his father told in one of his interviews.


~jmo~

Apparently it has also come from Zimmerman (via Chris Serino and Tracy Martin so this account is third hand at best)

Sanford police have stopped talking to reporters about the case, and Serino has never spoken publicly about his role in it, but here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: "He told me Zimmerman's story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?' Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I'm not following you.' He rolls his car windows up.

"Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, ‘What's your problem, homes?' Zimmerman says ‘I don't have a problem.'

"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

 

[Adrienne37]

Apparently it has also come from Zimmerman (via Chris Serino and Tracy Martin so this account is third hand at best)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

Oh yes, thank you so much Donjeta. I had completely forgotten about Tracy's interview replaying what the SPD attempted to sell him.



~Jmo~

 

[cityslick]

Because even as a teenager, his brain is still developing. He is not expected to have a job and pay for a home, car, etc. He is still very much a child dependent on his parents at 17. I would still call him a teenager rather than a child, but the definition fits. He was a child in mind and body, and GZ was the adult. Big difference between the two. I think some keep forgetting that and keep thinking TM was an adult just like GZ. That is just not the case.

BBM

That's where I'm going to disagree. When I look at a 17 year old football player, the word 'child' doesn't come to mind. Kid certainly, but not child but I guess it's just a matter of perception.

 

[suzihawk]

Well... I don't think TM would appreciate being called a 'child'. I don't know why they are referring to him as a child, legally he is I suppose. In my view I would think teenager as well.

Ima

I'm sure he wouldn't. LOL Just as a 3 year old doesn't care to be called a 'baby' by their mother (or anyone else) even though they still are.

Semantics. Semantics being used to illustrate he is less of a victim for some reason.

IMO

 

[Aedrys]

Apparently it has also come from Zimmerman (via Chris Serino and Tracy Martin so this account is third hand at best)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

What's your problem, homes? That doesn't even sound like something a teenager would say. I don't even think "homes" is even used by teenagers anymore, unless I'm wrong?

And actually, wasn't GZ's cellphone already out? I know exactly what he was reaching for, and it wasn't a cellphone. Good Lord. What a unbelievable story. Yes, please take this to court and see how it plays out, GZ. I hope your lawyer is more competent than you and your family and friends' storytelling abilities!

 

[LynnM]

Apparently it has also come from Zimmerman (via Chris Serino and Tracy Martin so this account is third hand at best)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

This is exactly why I wonder if GZ didn't know his call was being recorded, because if that IS what he told Serino, we already know it's not true. There was NO exchange between GZ and TM before GZ got out of his car to pursue him, there is just GZ telling the operator that Trayvon has come up and looked at him. I will be very interested to see if GZ makes this claim on tape to the police because if so, it's a lie.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Apparently it has also come from Zimmerman (via Chris Serino and Tracy Martin so this account is third hand at best)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

I question whether GZ knew his call was being recorded on the non emergency line because this is a bunch of bs IMO.

wm

 

[Donjeta]

Anyway, if GZ really got out of his car and started following a suspicious teenager/child/adult/kid on drugs and up to no good after the aforementioned dangerous character has already brought it to his attention that he is not taking kindly to being followed it sounds like a death wish to me.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...n-nose-and-head-after-shooting-neighbors-say/

Rodriguez's wife Audria also said she saw the bandages and a third neighbor, who spoke only on condition of anonymity, said, "I saw two bandages on the back of his head, and his nose was all swollen-up."

The neighbors spoke to Reuters on Sunday and Monday. They said they felt they owed Zimmerman their public support after he was charged with second-degree murder.

 

[Isabelle]

First of all GZ was told TWICE while on the phone with non-emergency dispatch that officers were ON THE WAY, so GZ KNEW is was not going to be an hour. GZ "felt" the need to track Trayvon because GZ did not want another of THOSE a$$hole's to get away, and by damn GZ was not going to let him. Now just WHAT is THOSE to GZ, well he told us right on that call......BLACK.

I strongly suspect that GZ didn't call 911 that night because he had probably been warned by police that if he kept abusing the 911 system with his silly and unfounded repeated calls then charges could be brought against him, so he switched tactics and started abusing the non-emergency number.

Agree completely. And possible GZ cut between the complexes in order to trap TM. He was not going to let this one get away!

 

[Talina]

The other participant was on a 10 day suspension.

I don't see the relevance that keeps getting placed on TM's school disciplinary/suspension problems. It dies down then is resurrected.

For one thing, GZ had no way of knowing one iota about this teenager that he shot prior to the shooting. Another thing, GZ does not, to me, describe anything that sounds like suspicious behavior on his call to LE that fateful evening and lastly, had GZ witnessed or noticed criminal behavior that warranted him following to make sure TM did not get away before LE arrived, he would not have called the non-emergency number, IMO.

I think there are many, many areas of discipline meted out by schools that are not in any way, shape or form illegal. A 10 day suspension, while a strong suspension, is not necessarily equivalent to an illegal activity by someone else which resulted in charges and subsequent court ordered activities, etc. (GZ's legal issues).

I don't recall that any of TM's school disciplinary issues involved anything violent or aggressive at all.

It's all well and good to compare the backgrounds of the two people involved after the fact and then make justifications for what happened but IMO that is not a fair assessment of what happened that evening because neither knew each other and for all GZ knew, TM could have been the valedictorian of his class. He knew NOTHING about this teenager other than he didn't recognize him so this teenager's history or background played no part whatsoever in GZ's decision to not let this one get away.



IMO

 

[Isabelle]

I've felt the exact same as you. I think GZ was making it all up re: "He's coming at me... he's reaching in his waistband..." etc. He was premeditating and concocting his defense right there.

1. Why didn't we hear GZ say on the recording, "Oh sh**, he's standing right here now!!! Hold on, let me roll window down and see why he's in this area, wandering around."

2. Instead, he says TM was running off, not trying to interact with GZ at all. If TM wanted to confront or fight, the dispatcher would have probably overheard TM telling off GZ when TM was allegedly walking toward the car with hand in waistband. IMO, the man is paranoid and not truthful.

3. After the dispatcher says, "We don't need you to follow him," GZ says "okay"... but you can CLEARLY hear that GZ hasn't stopped running after the kid. The windy-rush sound just keeps going and going, with neither of them saying a word for a while.

4. GZ's voice is *shaky* when he finally starts talking again. It is not from being too tired from running. It's from being ANGRY AS HE77 and READY TO EXPLODE. GZ is not huffing and puffing, out of breath. He is HOT and seeing red. A lot of people get a shaky voice before turning into the Incredible Hulk.

PS If TM allegedly broke GZ's nose, wouldn't GZ's blood have been on Trayvon's hands and elsewhere? GZ claims that TM put his hand over GZ's mouth to bang his head against the sidewalk.

So shouldn't there have been some GZ nose blood on one of TM's hands? The coroner or funeral director may be able to help prove or disprove a fight.

This could have been a total ambush, with TM never getting a lick in. IMO, GZ was 100% convinced this kid had robbed a house or car already. That's possibly why a neighbor saw GZ touching TM's dead body, face down. GZ was possibly looking for stolen jewelry or something... evidence that he'd done a good thing in killing a robber... but there was nothing but Skittles. Oops!

An adrenalin rush brought on by the excitement of the potential kill!

 

[Gin]

Trayvon Martin met the legal definition of a child. End of story.

JMO/IMO

Children his age are sometimes referred to as teens, young persons, kidlets,etc, but that doesn't change their legal definition.

Is there any real information that will come from school records? Really?

Trayvon Martin was a child crime victim. He was murdered. We won't hear his "side" because he was permanently silenced.

I am a victim friendly advocate. I am glad steps are being taken toward justice.

 

[Isabelle]

Apparently it has also come from Zimmerman (via Chris Serino and Tracy Martin so this account is third hand at best)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

And this is the story told to Tracy Martin after if was decided not to charge GZ! Go figure!

 

[Isabelle]

I don't see the relevance that keeps getting placed on TM's school disciplinary/suspension problems. It dies down then is resurrected.

For one thing, GZ had no way of knowing one iota about this teenager that he shot prior to the shooting. Another thing, GZ does not, to me, describe anything that sounds like suspicious behavior on his call to LE that fateful evening and lastly, had GZ witnessed or noticed criminal behavior that warranted him following to make sure TM did not get away before LE arrived, he would not have called the non-emergency number, IMO.

I think there are many, many areas of discipline meted out by schools that are not in any way, shape or form illegal. A 10 day suspension, while a strong suspension, is not necessarily equivalent to an illegal activity by someone else which resulted in charges and subsequent court ordered activities, etc. (GZ's legal issues).

I don't recall that any of TM's school disciplinary issues involved anything violent or aggressive at all.

It's all well and good to compare the backgrounds of the two people involved after the fact and then make justifications for what happened but IMO that is not a fair assessment of what happened that evening because neither knew each other and for all GZ knew, TM could have been the valedictorian of his class. He knew NOTHING about this teenager other than he didn't recognize him so this teenager's history or background played no part whatsoever in GZ's decision to not let this one get away.



IMO

I think a reason for this is that those who truly believe in the goodness of TZ have to continue to try to find something really bad about TM and it just isn't going to happen. I don't know what people's reasons are for this, but I do have my suspicions!

 

[imamaze]

I don't see it as a senseless silly debate. I think people do wonder why he's continually referred to as a child. If you all do it for legal reasons, or you think of him still as a child, that's fine. I don't see anything wrong with asking.

I don't see that it matters anyhow. Child or teen, no one is trying to pretend TM is an adult. Regardless, GZ was the adult, I don't think anyone is trying to illistrate he is less of a victim because of his age, any more than I think him being called a 'child' is to make him more of a victim.

So just pass the question on by if you don't want to answer it but its a logical question in my view, not that it matters to me if he is a child or a teen, like I said GZ was the adult in this situation with a gun no less!

Ima