AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #23

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BBM

I am well aware of the BARD threshold, WSAZ.

But other posters have said LE has the evidence and thinks it points to Isa's parents.

just conversation, just bouncing off. I know you are very informed about this case and many others. While I don't think that you and I agree on what happened to Isa, we both know that we have not seen solid evidence of anything. I sure hope they find it.

Hope they find her safe.
 
If le arrests somebody then they have to be able that they can prove brd that they commited the crime. They cannot just lock people up and then investigate. Otherwise poor Jyesse's mother would be in jail.

I have been thinking about this issue all afternoon. That question...why there seems to be no sticking evidence and why so many of these missing children seems to elude LE. Why no charges? why??

I think it has to do with fact that our constitution very much needs to catch up with modern times with this matter. Just as there are new laws being made every day in every state. In the same way that our Constitutional and individual rights needed updates for Internet safety- and domestic tranquility in a post 9/11 world; we need more laws to protect our children.

Keeping in mind that in the good ol' USA there were laws that protected animals before there were laws that protected women and children. ( rule of thumb)

- I believe in no other time in history has humankind ever been so disposable. For most of our history infant mortality was one if the biggest problems facing families. Few children lived to adulthood. There are examples in our ethical and religious traditions to deal with the natural deaths of a children- not for when adults abduct and kill children or out of some other manner conceal their tragedy.

IMHO We need new laws. We need laws to deter these sorts of abuse. Abuse of individuals and of the law.

:jail:
 
I see a trend of ripping every little thing apart in some of these cases, to prove that the parents were pimping out their kids, or whatever. <snipped>

I guess I'm just a bit skeptical of finding something nefarious in every nuance of these children's lives, like, in Isabel's case, who braided her hair, if she had a photo with make-up, etc. <snipped>

I wholeheartedly agree, gitana. I think we've reached the saturation point, and unless TPD releases new information or there's a break, I don't expect to get much more use out of what we already know. On the other hand, I'm afraid for us to stop talking and brainstorming and even nitpicking, because I don't want to see her thread go quiet. I just pray good news will come SOON! :please:
 
Haven't posted in this thread but have been following and honestly have nothing constructive to add to the discussion. At this point, with what little we know, there is a multitude of possibilities of what could have happened to Isabel. I just hope and pray this precious angel is found and brought home!!!

:candle: for Isabel.
 
I don't know if this has been posted or not. It is a video that was posted on the Find Isabel Celis and Find Isabel Mercedes Celis FB pages that talks about an upcoming car wash and what the donations are used for:

http://www.tucsonmorningblend.com/videos/156047845.html

Thanks for the link!

After watching the video I am frustrated that the push seems to be for flyers and "papering the neighborhood"...although that is a great way to get her picture out there...why isn't the family pleading for Isabel in the media..local media, Telemundo...something!!! IF isa was abducted and was taken out of state, her face should be broadcasted much farther than just the "neighborhood". JMOO
 
While I have no real feeling either way as to the possible involvement of the parents, the fact that no arrests have been made doesn't really mean much; look at Ayla's case. LE has practically accused the father in the media (as well as other adults in the house), has refuted the "kidnapping" scenario for months now, but they can't seem to make a move.

Oddly though, in that case, the two young mothers who were in the home with their children that night have not faced any CPS restrictions. So there's that...just something that makes Isabel's case even stranger.

JMO
 
I have been thinking about this issue all afternoon. That question...why there seems to be no sticking evidence and why so many of these missing children seems to elude LE. Why no charges? why??

I think it has to do with fact that our constitution very much needs to catch up with modern times with this matter. Just as there are new laws being made every day in every state. In the same way that our Constitutional and individual rights needed updates for Internet safety- and domestic tranquility in a post 9/11 world; we need more laws to protect our children.

Keeping in mind that in the good ol' USA there were laws that protected animals before there were laws that protected women and children. ( rule of thumb)

- I believe in no other time in history has humankind ever been so disposable. For most of our history infant mortality was one if the biggest problems facing families. Few children lived to adulthood. There are examples in our ethical and religious traditions to deal with the natural deaths of a children- not for when adults abduct and kill children or out of some other manner conceal their tragedy.

IMHO We need new laws. We need laws to deter these sorts of abuse. Abuse of individuals and of the law.

:jail:

I have mentioned before about how many missing minors we have in this country that are never found. It is called Amercia's dirty secret by some in LE. We really have no clue what has actually happened to all of these minors that never reappear ever again, and until we do, I dont trust my government.. who tries to tell me strangers aren't abducting, raping, and murdering kids often. The simply truth is we dont know how many strangers are kidnapping society's children and imo the justice system doesnt want us to know or even think about it either. They want us to concentrate on the 400 children murdered yearly by one of their bio parents but that is not even a drop in the bucket compared to unresolved cases where neither the minor nor the perp is ever found.

If we just go by the countless attempted abductions done by total strangers that we hear about on the news or read about almost on a daily basis it is a glimpse into reality and not a small part of America's problem .as our justice system would like for us to believe. Torres had tried it before and had a failed attempt but then he was able to kidnap and murder Sierra. There are many more out there just like him.

Imo, these stranger pedophile kidnappers who try to abduct children...some right in broad daylight.... will continue until they successfully kidnap a child. I think a lot of missing children have crossed paths with these type of predators and were unable to get away from them.

While it sickens me at times that defendants seem to have all the rights and the victim has none, I do realize our constitution is in place to protect us all...even those who have been falsely accused and years later exonerated or those that will be falsely accused in the future.

Imo, we dont need new laws. Murder/rape/kidnapping has always been a high offense and suspects are arrested everyday and brought to trial and punishment meted out.

We are seeing the punishment for those that murder a child esculating in terms of severity over what we use to see. Imo, there is a long way to go when it is a bio mother (then the blinders are still on in some degree.) A lot of times the punishment for same like crimes are not the same when a mother murders her own vs. a father doing the same thing.

I think a tremendous amount of these missing minor cases are never solved because it is almost impossible to link a perpretrator to a crime when they had no known link with the victim(s). Especially when the perp gets lucky like Couey, Westerfield, Mitchell, and Duncan did.... when they left absolutely no evidence of themselves behind in the home where the child or children were kidnapped from.

It takes a lucky break that often never comes. I have often wondered if LE would have ever even arrested Duncan for the murders of the Greone adults,older brother, and Dylan or the rapes, and kidnappings of Shasta and Dylan.. if he had not returned with Shasta to her hometown. LE in Idaho didnt even have a clue who he was and 7 weeks had passed.

If Duncan had not been captured the Anthony Martinez murder in CA would still remain unresolved and also would the two little sisters who he murdered in WA state and I think he murdered way more than he ever admitted to doing. Even the FBI cannot open his encrypted journal and that is where the truth lays to just what all he has really done to defenseless little children.

IMO
 
I don't know if this has been posted or not. It is a video that was posted on the Find Isabel Celis and Find Isabel Mercedes Celis FB pages that talks about an upcoming car wash and what the donations are used for:

http://www.tucsonmorningblend.com/videos/156047845.html

Interesting interview. The young man who is involved with the fundraisers says he got involved because he knew Isa's "uncle." He seems a little unsure of himself.
 
Thanks for the link!

After watching the video I am frustrated that the push seems to be for flyers and "papering the neighborhood"...although that is a great way to get her picture out there...why isn't the family pleading for Isabel in the media..local media, Telemundo...something!!! IF isa was abducted and was taken out of state, her face should be broadcasted much farther than just the "neighborhood". JMOO
bbm
This form of media asks questions. The parents don't want to answer questions. :furious:
 
Murder/rape/kidnapping has always been a high offense and suspects are arrested everyday and brought to trial and punishment meted out.

We are seeing the punishment for those that murder a child esculating in terms of severity over what we use to see. Imo, there is a long way to go when it is a bio mother (then the blinders are still on in some degree.) A lot of times the punishment for same like crimes are not the same when a mother murders her own vs. a father doing the same thing.


Meh- Yes, clearly- murder /rape.....

But what is the Federal charge for hiding a child's horrific unintended death- is it really "tampering with a corpse" ? "unlawful burial?" there is a difference in the cases to which i am referring...is all I am saying. All the missing are not going to the same place.(with the exception of heaven)

The same parents really are victims - are so afraid of government and cps/ and consumed with protecting their own "rights" ( and images ) that they escape taking responsibility and take things into their own hands.

Hey the path has been cut before. they push the screen a little, sound the alarm, and hope people will buy that their family tragedy was part of this whole sick trend of America's missing. - two different tragedies maybe.

Praying for them all out there ...praying for Isa.
My heart goes out to all the families who have lost children.

:yellow:
 
I just don't think that Isa's parents had anything at all to do with her disappearance. I truly don't believe they did - to me, it's painful to watch them speak out - they are so nervous speaking in public, and there is most certainly a language barrier. Not only w/Isa's parents, but even some of the LE who speak - it's hard to believe that English is their first language.

Personally, I've lost hope that this case will ever be solved and it's just so damned sad to lose another child this way :(
 
Unlike many other users I think Isabel is alive and well.
I think this is a case of love and despair and that she has been brought to another location (well taken care of) because the person behind it thought the disappearance of Isabel would bring the family closer together again, and that it was planned for her to reappear after some time.

IMO this was a desperate measure not well thought out, and since the case got big not easy to go along with as planned.


Regarding the CPS in Dec, I think the uncle who was living at the Celis house back then was given Isabel's room to stay in, and Isabel moving in with her brothers, just temporarily. She may have told a teacher or someone else that "her uncle was sleeping in her room", after which that person called LE who then contacted CPS. CPS then was informed that Isabel was not staying in her own room for the time being because they had to help out this uncle so everything being fine. IMO
 
But, ahem, I was pretty darn cute so just for kicks, I will post my pics (need to scan). They were taken in the 70's.

@ Gitana - My bubble has been burst. That top photo was priceless. Looking forward to your "real" one(s)!

We have dear friends/former neighbors in NYC... Mom is from Spain and did the folkloric dancing as a kid (I am afraid I don't know the correct term), as did her two daughters. Absolutely stunning costumes and dances. Loved attending their year end Spanish heritage programs in Queens. Much moreso than the overblown dance studio recitals that many of the other kids (including one of mine) were involved in briefly. LOL.
 
Thanks for the link!

After watching the video I am frustrated that the push seems to be for flyers and "papering the neighborhood"...although that is a great way to get her picture out there...why isn't the family pleading for Isabel in the media..local media, Telemundo...something!!! IF isa was abducted and was taken out of state, her face should be broadcasted much farther than just the "neighborhood". JMOO

I completely agree. As I have mentioned before, they could release more videos to the media of Isa.Those could definitely reach more people then just their neighborhoods. More people IMO would be better able to recognize her by seeing her in action. I'm sure the family would have plenty of home videos that could let us hear her voice and see her different facial expressions! I don't believe that would cost the Celis' anything to have the news media get it out there? In fact the news media may even pay to have use of videos of Isa which I'm sure would be a lot more than selling bracelets and buttons. That would give more exposure for Isa which, if alive could truly bring her home! (also more funds to the family for the increased fliers that they feel they are in need of.)


Where are you little Isa? :rose:
You have many who think of you daily and want to see you home safe.:heart:
 
Too quiet. Too sad. Isa is still missing. Family? MSM? TPD? Nothing, nada.

Is it the calm before the storm?...why is it so quiet? Been here before.. garrr...
 
Too quiet. Too sad. Isa is still missing. Family? MSM? TPD? Nothing, nada.

Is it the calm before the storm?...why is it so quiet? Been here before.. garrr...

Sad, I agree. Where is Isa?
 
I completely agree. As I have mentioned before, they could release more videos to the media of Isa.Those could definitely reach more people then just their neighborhoods. More people IMO would be better able to recognize her by seeing her in action. I'm sure the family would have plenty of home videos that could let us hear her voice and see her different facial expressions! I don't believe that would cost the Celis' anything to have the news media get it out there? In fact the news media may even pay to have use of videos of Isa which I'm sure would be a lot more than selling bracelets and buttons. That would give more exposure for Isa which, if alive could truly bring her home! (also more funds to the family for the increased fliers that they feel they are in need of.)


Where are you little Isa? :rose:
You have many who think of you daily and want to see you home safe.:heart:

It's very unpopular here on WS for parents to make any money selling pictures and videos of their child. It has caused a lot of criticism in Caylee and Lisa's case, because people believe the family members were involved. In cases where the parents are considered innocent, the whole selling footage issue is just not mentioned. I think most people just assume that innocent parents just give the footage away for free, which is probably true in most cases. From a public opinion standpoint, it would not look good for Becky and Sergio if it ever comes out they were paid for pictures/videos of Isabel.
 
I live in Southern California and today as I was walking into my local grocery store I was upset because I could see a Missing Child flier on the door. Oh No, not again. The closer I got I realized it was a flier of little Isa! I was sad that there was a reminder right in front of me that she was still missing, BUT happy that somebody had posted fliers of a child that went missing 450 miles away!
 
Can you link to those photos? Because it does have something to do with Isabel's photos. The make-up photo of Isabel is of her in what appears to be make-up you put on a kid for a dance recital, or something like that. Not full blown pageant make-up. She's standing next to someone (a female), just beaming. IMO, nothing suggestive or disturbing, at all.

I see a trend of ripping every little thing apart in some of these cases, to prove that the parents were pimping out their kids, or whatever. An innocent kid who happens to move her arms in a certain manner is suddenly posing suggestively, a kid with red lips from eating ice cream has been made up to look like a prostitute, etc., so it must mean the parents are into kiddie *advertiser censored* and were molesting their missing child to death or allowing others to do so, or creating child *advertiser censored* they were selling.

I don't buy it in either of these cases. Both kids have numerous photos, including ones very recent to their disappearance, that show a child who has not lost her innocence, with the wide-eyed and beaming glee of a child who has never known a moment of abuse or deprivation:

images
(One month before she went missing).
images
(The day before she disappeared).

I guess I'm just a bit skeptical of finding something nefarious in every nuance of these children's lives, like, in Isabel's case, who braided her hair, if she had a photo with make-up, etc.

Did Sergio have something to do with his daughter's disappearance? The actions of LE and CPS certainly seem to suggest so. But whether he tucked her in or just let her tuck herself in, the order in which the family took showers, or whether dad asked if she was hungry that night at 11:30 p.m., or a child-performance type photo of Isa - none of that tells me a thing. :twocents:

RSBM

From a few of the photos I have seen it has given me the impression of theatrical makeup which I have seen actors wearing in performances.

The one photo reminds me of the production of Cats. It was the first thing that did pop into my head when I saw some of them.
 
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