I got no problem with that. None. But even some of the DNA is misrepresented in a big big way. But let me get my book and read it and we will continue the discussion. I got from Mr. Kolar that someone who knows how to kill, killed JBR. Somebody is a sadistic person cobwebs or no cobwebs and entry points. Lets play nice okay.
James Kolar's New Book Will Blow the Lid off the JonBenet Ramsey Investigation
- Thread starter Tricia
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I got no problem with that. None. But even some of the DNA is misrepresented in a big big way. But let me get my book and read it and we will continue the discussion. I got from Mr. Kolar that someone who knows how to kill, killed JBR. Somebody is a sadistic person cobwebs or no cobwebs and entry points. Lets play nice okay.
justthinkin
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KoldKase
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Jezuz, people. If you don't want to read the book, don't.
The things which have transpired over this book were out of Tricia's control. If she and Kolar miscalculated some elements which held the publication up, she still did the best she could. FOR US.
As for Kolar SELLING a book it took him years to write, based on investigating it took him YEARS to do, the man works for a living. It also costs money to publish a book, and clearly he wanted to control how it was published so chose to put that money up himself instead of getting a fat check up front from a publishing house which would have a taken a lot of that control away. I'm sure many of you would do this all for free, but some people can't.
I for one can't imagine how hard it was for Kolar to decide to put his professional career in law enforcement on the line in the same place he's worked and lived for most of his adult life. I thought he spoke as any professional LE with any skill always does: reserved, objective, with careful deliberation, and very cautiously. That's the nature of his job. He reminded me a lot of Steve Thomas that way.
However you want to interpret what he said, clearly that is exactly what he intended and said: make up your own mind.
But if you haven't read the book, and at this point little has actually been quoted from it that I've seen, how can you make up your mind about what's in it?
I regret that I haven't been able to post my notes and some quotes yet, but life doesn't unfold according to my wishes, either, and right now I'm dealing with a medical issue taking precedence. Hopefully this weekend we'll all have some time to be more thorough, with better detail, in our discussions.
And I understand the disappointment that expectations haven't been met in the form of answers to all our questions yet. We didn't know what to expect and that it turned out to be a book we have to order and read did put the brakes on the disclosures we all anxiously want to see. We're hardly impatient, after 15 years of waiting.
But it is what it is. I'm reading the book as I can under my personal circumstances; until I have read more and have time to collect my thoughts and then write them down, I know I'm not much help.
Maybe I can share a few things later tonight.
The things which have transpired over this book were out of Tricia's control. If she and Kolar miscalculated some elements which held the publication up, she still did the best she could. FOR US.
As for Kolar SELLING a book it took him years to write, based on investigating it took him YEARS to do, the man works for a living. It also costs money to publish a book, and clearly he wanted to control how it was published so chose to put that money up himself instead of getting a fat check up front from a publishing house which would have a taken a lot of that control away. I'm sure many of you would do this all for free, but some people can't.
I for one can't imagine how hard it was for Kolar to decide to put his professional career in law enforcement on the line in the same place he's worked and lived for most of his adult life. I thought he spoke as any professional LE with any skill always does: reserved, objective, with careful deliberation, and very cautiously. That's the nature of his job. He reminded me a lot of Steve Thomas that way.
However you want to interpret what he said, clearly that is exactly what he intended and said: make up your own mind.
But if you haven't read the book, and at this point little has actually been quoted from it that I've seen, how can you make up your mind about what's in it?
I regret that I haven't been able to post my notes and some quotes yet, but life doesn't unfold according to my wishes, either, and right now I'm dealing with a medical issue taking precedence. Hopefully this weekend we'll all have some time to be more thorough, with better detail, in our discussions.
And I understand the disappointment that expectations haven't been met in the form of answers to all our questions yet. We didn't know what to expect and that it turned out to be a book we have to order and read did put the brakes on the disclosures we all anxiously want to see. We're hardly impatient, after 15 years of waiting.
But it is what it is. I'm reading the book as I can under my personal circumstances; until I have read more and have time to collect my thoughts and then write them down, I know I'm not much help.
Maybe I can share a few things later tonight.
wonderllama
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Err...I am playing nice, can't you see me smiling at my desk?
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Thank you Roy. Yes I respect what you are saying and thank you for being so honest.
redheadedgal
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can i borrow it when you're done? lol
(no-- i'm not cheap... just moving across the country in 10 days... very expensive... no extra money for books
)What does Kolar says about
Pictures from Whites party.
Ransom note on those stairs.
John Andrew keeping the movie stubs.
Family wanting to "move on with their lives" days after the murder.
Missing phone records.
Did they test the man screaming about John Ramsey
MyTwinn doll delivered in the name of Jonbenet to John's office on New Years day.
Barbie doll next to Jonbenet's body on a white blanket (kinda like Jonbenet)
Jonbenet's dolls were removed from crime scene. Was the duct tape on the doll a match to Jonbenet's?
John and Fleet White were in the basement before they found her and Fleet checked the room and didn't see her. Was it too dark?
Burke says Jonbenet walked in the house and the parents say she was sleeping.
3rd voice was on 911 call.
Jonbenet ate pineapple 30 minutes before she died.
Burke and Patsy's fingerprints were on pineapple bowl.
Patsy said only 2 people know who killed her when note said a foreign faction.
Burke was removed from the house, didn't ask questions.
Burke won't talk to LE to say he doesn't know anything.
"A Nick of Time" which aired that night about a cop who kidnaps a 6 year old.
John went to the room.
the knots were loose on Jonbenet.
No one heard scream except a neighbor.
Pilot light was out that night.
Did they test everyone in contact with Jonbenet?
911 call on December 23, Jonbenet saying she didn't feel pretty.
Dictionary opened to incest.
Pictures from Whites party.
Ransom note on those stairs.
John Andrew keeping the movie stubs.
Family wanting to "move on with their lives" days after the murder.
Missing phone records.
Did they test the man screaming about John Ramsey
MyTwinn doll delivered in the name of Jonbenet to John's office on New Years day.
Barbie doll next to Jonbenet's body on a white blanket (kinda like Jonbenet)
Jonbenet's dolls were removed from crime scene. Was the duct tape on the doll a match to Jonbenet's?
John and Fleet White were in the basement before they found her and Fleet checked the room and didn't see her. Was it too dark?
Burke says Jonbenet walked in the house and the parents say she was sleeping.
3rd voice was on 911 call.
Jonbenet ate pineapple 30 minutes before she died.
Burke and Patsy's fingerprints were on pineapple bowl.
Patsy said only 2 people know who killed her when note said a foreign faction.
Burke was removed from the house, didn't ask questions.
Burke won't talk to LE to say he doesn't know anything.
"A Nick of Time" which aired that night about a cop who kidnaps a 6 year old.
John went to the room.
the knots were loose on Jonbenet.
No one heard scream except a neighbor.
Pilot light was out that night.
Did they test everyone in contact with Jonbenet?
911 call on December 23, Jonbenet saying she didn't feel pretty.
Dictionary opened to incest.
azwriter
Sister Mary Wanna
Jana, I'd like to point out that Burke wasn't a small child at the time of his sister's death. He was much taller than his little sister. There's a family photo around here somewhere (Grandpa and Grandma Paugh with the children) that was taken in a time period, December 1996, near JonBenet's death. The photo appears in the photo section of the Ramsey's book "Death of Innocence" just next to page 179. Both children, JonBenet and Burke are standing and Burke is much taller than his sister. In fact, in the photo Burke is standing next to his grandpa and comes up to mid chest of his grandpa, who looks to be fairly tall himself.
I do believe whoever hit JonBenet in the head did so in a rage. And possibly she was laying down and the person doing the hitting was standing above when they lashed out to quiet her when she screamed Christmas night. I do think that striking out in a rage can give the person more strengh.
From way back, I've been a BDI. I believe if Burke caused his sisters death, that would be the only reason the parents would stage a coverup to protect the person responsible and would not go to the trouble of covering for each other.
Patsy and John Ramsey had a standing in the community. They were wealthy and wanted everyone to know. They also were arrogrant and could not have lived with the fact their son was involved in the death of his younger sister. Even if the laws in Colorado at the time prevented a child that age from being charged or convicted in a crime of this type.
This is all, of course, my own opinion. But, I'm sticking to it.
PS: If anyone has that photo, can you post it here for all of us to see the difference in the children's size. Thanks.
azwriter
Sister Mary Wanna
Right you are rpgman. I think it was John Ramsey who first referred to the rope as a "professional garrotte."
Come on, my sis and I had a rope tied something like that when we were kids. We used it mainly to pull our sled up the hill in the winter snow. It was also handy for making a tree swing.
Just my O
wonderllama
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"I'm telling Mom"
"You better not!"
WHACK
I'm not necessarily believing the idea, but I think when someone gets in a rage they act a lot stronger than they might otherwise be.
Just sayin'.
"You better not!"
WHACK
I'm not necessarily believing the idea, but I think when someone gets in a rage they act a lot stronger than they might otherwise be.
Just sayin'.
eileenhawkeye
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I don't have DOI....But did you mean this picture:
If it's the one you're thinking of, are you sure it's from Dec 1996? JonBenet's hair looks shorter.
And Wow, I just realized that JonBenet's plaid skirt is just like the plaid skirts Patsy's bridesmaids wore....
KoldKase
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Because Kolar begins his book by interweaving speculation, theory, and facts, which I think you can only understand and appreciate by reading it yourself, I'm going to just quote some things that I noted as significant info, from an evidentiary point of view, for me anyway.
From Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet Ramsey?
Regarding the head blow, in the "kidnapping" scenario he creates at the beginning, Kolar writes:
From p. 15:
From p. 16:
I know TOD has been debated and this has been the general consensus on the forums, but it has always been ambiguous as far as a LE source. Maybe it's just been too long since I read the early books, but this is why I appreciate Kolar's concise revisiting of the evidence like this. He speaks from the case file information.
After completing his "kidnapping" scenario attempting to explain the evidence as the work of the Foreign Faction, Kolar changes to straight up recounting of the case as it unfolded in reality. Most of this we are all very familiar with, but through they years a lot has been disputed or forgotten, and for those who are new to the case and want to catch up, it's a very well-written summary of what happened that morning, taken from police reports, interviews, and witness statements available to Kolar.
So take or leave the following as it suits you:
P. 26:
I include this because it explains another point of view about why the BPD presence in the home wasn't considered to be a problem. Also the decision to use cell phones to prevent radio monitoring also fits with the information we have from other sources (among them, Thomas' book and John Ramsey himself in his Wolf deposition) that the BPD "borrowed" the Ramseys' cell phones that morning because the BPD said their cell phone batteries were dead, as well. (You all know my thoughts about the cell phone issues.)
Kolar details that John and Patsy both told LE, as well as others in the house that morning at various times, the doors and windows were all locked, even checked by them that morning and the night before. Kolar's information comes from police reports and interviews with those with the Ramseys that morning.
Page 36:
How many times have we seen Ramsey change this story? I include it because Ramsey has whittled his absence down to about 10 minutes at this point in his telling of the events.
Here's something we haven't heard before:
Page 37:
Arndt was left alone in the home after the ransom call did not come by 10 a.m. This led to the infamous blunder she will be remembered for, and we all know how this went. But I think it's worth remembering what led to her mistake.
Page 37:
Kolar wrote that Detective Whitson had called the FBI early that morning to assist with the kidnappinig. On p. 41 he writes that after the body had been found by John and Fleet, "...Sergeant Larry Mason arrived on the scene at 1320 hours and was accompanied by Denver FBI Supervisory Agent Ron Walker. They had learned of the discovery of JonBenet's body while meeting on the investigation at the Boulder Police Department."
Kolar writes here of John's call to arrange a flight to Atlanta that afternoon, when John said something strange:
Page 41:
We all know Ramsey's excuses about that, but later in the book it gets even stranger. Father Holverstock, the Ramseys' pastor who had been called to the home by Fernie to help calm the Ramseys early that morning, was interviewed by LE:
Page 88
Kolar has already recounted by this point that White and Arndt both said the child was cold to the touch, with the smell of death, Arndt said.
I have to stop here. Others who have the book might want to bring in the details they find important.
In particular, I want to go over chapters 5 and 6. At this point in the book, Kolar begins recounting details about the autopsy, with many revelations about Dr. Meyer's findings and actions as he determined there were prior vaginal injuries and called a meeting of an existing Boulder committee of child safety and abuse professionals to decide what to do next.
And to me, this is what we've long awaited.
From Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet Ramsey?
Regarding the head blow, in the "kidnapping" scenario he creates at the beginning, Kolar writes:
From p. 15:
From p. 16:
I know TOD has been debated and this has been the general consensus on the forums, but it has always been ambiguous as far as a LE source. Maybe it's just been too long since I read the early books, but this is why I appreciate Kolar's concise revisiting of the evidence like this. He speaks from the case file information.
After completing his "kidnapping" scenario attempting to explain the evidence as the work of the Foreign Faction, Kolar changes to straight up recounting of the case as it unfolded in reality. Most of this we are all very familiar with, but through they years a lot has been disputed or forgotten, and for those who are new to the case and want to catch up, it's a very well-written summary of what happened that morning, taken from police reports, interviews, and witness statements available to Kolar.
So take or leave the following as it suits you:
P. 26:
I include this because it explains another point of view about why the BPD presence in the home wasn't considered to be a problem. Also the decision to use cell phones to prevent radio monitoring also fits with the information we have from other sources (among them, Thomas' book and John Ramsey himself in his Wolf deposition) that the BPD "borrowed" the Ramseys' cell phones that morning because the BPD said their cell phone batteries were dead, as well. (You all know my thoughts about the cell phone issues.)
Kolar details that John and Patsy both told LE, as well as others in the house that morning at various times, the doors and windows were all locked, even checked by them that morning and the night before. Kolar's information comes from police reports and interviews with those with the Ramseys that morning.
Page 36:
How many times have we seen Ramsey change this story? I include it because Ramsey has whittled his absence down to about 10 minutes at this point in his telling of the events.
Here's something we haven't heard before:
Page 37:
Arndt was left alone in the home after the ransom call did not come by 10 a.m. This led to the infamous blunder she will be remembered for, and we all know how this went. But I think it's worth remembering what led to her mistake.
Page 37:
Kolar wrote that Detective Whitson had called the FBI early that morning to assist with the kidnappinig. On p. 41 he writes that after the body had been found by John and Fleet, "...Sergeant Larry Mason arrived on the scene at 1320 hours and was accompanied by Denver FBI Supervisory Agent Ron Walker. They had learned of the discovery of JonBenet's body while meeting on the investigation at the Boulder Police Department."
Kolar writes here of John's call to arrange a flight to Atlanta that afternoon, when John said something strange:
Page 41:
We all know Ramsey's excuses about that, but later in the book it gets even stranger. Father Holverstock, the Ramseys' pastor who had been called to the home by Fernie to help calm the Ramseys early that morning, was interviewed by LE:
Page 88
Kolar has already recounted by this point that White and Arndt both said the child was cold to the touch, with the smell of death, Arndt said.
I have to stop here. Others who have the book might want to bring in the details they find important.
In particular, I want to go over chapters 5 and 6. At this point in the book, Kolar begins recounting details about the autopsy, with many revelations about Dr. Meyer's findings and actions as he determined there were prior vaginal injuries and called a meeting of an existing Boulder committee of child safety and abuse professionals to decide what to do next.
And to me, this is what we've long awaited.
Whaleshark
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Where have you been when I have been trying to explain to Chrishope why it's not absurd that they would stage to protect
Burke if he did it? He needs to read someone else's perspective rather than mine cuz he just couldn't see it...
Here, I pass the baton to you - you take over.... On the 'Are the Ramseys Involved' thread, if you please.... Or at least provide a thanks
KoldKase
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Thanks so much for your concern. It's just hubs having his routine colonoscopy in the morning. But he's going through all that awful 3 day prep and he's like a baby--has to have my attention, tore up the plumbing in the yard all day trying to find a small pipe leak, ill as a badger :maddening:, Georgia clay all over the house and his clothes...I'm exhausted!
wonderllama
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I clearly haven't read any of the book, but those tidbits are worrying me about the third member of the family. It's easy for two family members to say they didn't kill if they actually didn't.
This is really starting to be a worry.
This is really starting to be a worry.
Thanks for your whole post, but I especially like your phrase, 'whittled his absence down'. There's been a lot of whittling and wiggling from JR, and I wish somebody in authority, would hold him in check. MOO.
madeleine
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what I've heard so far just reinforces my BDI beliefs.
Thanks KoldKase for the quotes since I can't afford the book right now
(hope the ones who bought/read it share some more
and my God,that stuff about JR being worried about missing a meeting?wtf?I am so glad I trusted my instincts once again,I always believed their BEHAVIOR is the most telling piece of evidence.
hi
It's at about 92 minutes if you want to listen.
He didn't say it was "complex" but he did indicate it was effective in that it was used to "facilitate the strangulation" and that hair had been pulled out of JonBenet's head and neck, which was found in the loop of the handle and the cord....
this suggests it was effective ..he also made the point that the cord was embedded in her neck...and that it was constructed at the scene and not brought in from outside..
as you say it's a word , but it seems to me that RDI don't want to use the word garotte because it doesn't sit comfortably with something a parent would use against a child..and to such effect as evidenced by the hairs being pulled out and the cord embedded deep in her neck.... of course it also doesn't mean a parent could not have used this...