IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #13

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Evania said:
In this picture, he's making eye contact with Libby. MOO

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I feel the same way when I look at his pictures. That he is head down, but looking right at her from under his hat/hoodie. JMO
 
teeandcee said:
That's interesting because I'm left-handed, and I wear mine on my right side.
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I am left-handed too but I wear mine in the middle - in my mind it helps to cover my...ahem... slightly-less-than-flat-tummy.:notgood::notgood::notgood:

Regarding a watch. I was always told that you wear a watch opposite your writing hand but I always wear a watch on my left hand because it feels weird somehow but to my understanding that is not normal.

This could also be a sign of left-handedness: Many have speculated that he has something bulky (i.e. the white handle looking things or ropey looking thing) in his coat. Looking at the photos these/this item(s) appear to be concentrated on the right side, which would make sense to me, as you would put them in/take them out with his left hand.

And, lastly, IDK if that has been discussed earlier (most likely) but it appears to me that he has a swiss army knife/hunting knife type sheath attached to his back left side of his pants or belt. This would very definitely suggest, to me, he is left handed.

One thing would suggest to me though that maybe he is right handed is that if he has a weapon in hand or in pocket then he appears to have it inon his right hand side?

BUT OF COURSE THESE ARE JUST MY THOUGHTS.

Wow Skoomagoo.
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Dockins said:
Just adding that half of the teens I see on FB have the Krusty Krab as employment. I GUESS it's a thing for that age group.
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my daughter also worked at the Krusty Krab. Spongebob is meme central for this age range. My daughter has shown me tons of them.
 
Safeguard said:
I believe the initial bungling of the "missing kids" call, put this case in the situation it is in now. First they called off the search over night, even saying "They are not in any danger except from the elements", (Paragraphing), then they said, "no danger to the public, even though the kids were murdered...

I think they thought this was in the bag, right out of the gate, for whatever reason. But they were wrong. Costly presumptions.

This gave the perp plenty of time to slip away... IMO!
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I do agree that they definitely mishandled it in the beginning for sure. I just don't see a man who's never done this before or someone who has so carefully thought this out, being able to pull this off at least in this manner. Of course there's always the perfect storm and everything happens to align perfectly by luck. I just can't see that here. MOO
 
MissUnderstood said:
How did he get them across the river??


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I'm not sure he ever suggests how they reached their final location. Personally I think they were forced to walk across the creek (but even that isn't a firm opinion).

What he does do it show the area of the creek where they might have crossed, where the bodies were found, the layout of the area, where the pics of the perp were taken, and where LE searched in the water, etc.

Well worth watching. He has two on youtube about this case. They are both excellent.
 
MissUnderstood said:
How did he get them across the river??


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They would have walked across the creek. In that area the creek looks to be shallow and not that wide.

From the south/east end of the bridge to the crime scene is only about 450 to 500 feet.
 
perfectingpink said:
Here is a cemetery list for Carroll County. I stink at finding things on maps so if someone wants to have a go at figuring out if the cemetery we have been talking about is listed, please do.

http://www.incarroll.pasttracker.com/cemeteries/cemeteries_index.htm
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The cemetery in question is called Milroy or Morning Heights (it goes by both, apparently) I considered the fact that he may have been visiting the cemetery and went for a wlk but that would mean he just came across the girls by accident since it appears that the bridge can not be seen from that location, based on the photos that are posted here.

I am more inclined to think he used the parking lot and walked along the trail.
He may have seen the girls being dropped off and followed at a distance as well.
 
Wonder how often the girls went there......if he saw them being dropped off before....
 
changeindeed said:
Ya know , since you're talking about this now and many have mentioned how he sounds or what sort of accent he might have I will make a comment. The very first time I heard it, ( I say this because as time goes on and your read or hear other opinions it gets changed) I thought he sounded as if he were in a authority type of position. Now please understand I AM NOT saying this is his profession, only trying to get across the manner in which I THINK he sounds; when I've seen programs such as COPS or shows like that when the officer is putting someone in the backseat they often say "Watch your head" and for some reason it just sounds as if that is the flow or the context of his command.


Does any of what I typed make sense?
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THis got me to remembering the first time I heard it, way before I thought to come check here for a thread and before anyone told me what it said - I recall thinking to myself "it sounds like when I was a kid and tried to take a shortcut through someone's back yard to get home, because the streets ran parallel and their back yard lined up with my friend's back yard, and the house owner came out and hollered at us and said something like "get OUT of my yard".. reminded me of "g' DOWN the hill"..."

I then found that htey were on public land/a trail that is fine to hike, and then I found out they were found on a private property and the owner was not a suspect, so I forgot about it. But I wonder if BG took a fake authoritative tone with them and claimed they were on private property and pretended to be "escorting" them back to where the trail can be picked back up... because his instructions could either be interpreted as stern, like "get off my property. go DOWN the hill, and get out of here" (or similar, obviously) or they could be interpreted as "look you just go DOWN the hill, turn right, follow the creek, and you'll be back to the trail. I'll show you."

Just some thoughts. He obviously approached them and addressed them at some point. Maybe he attempted to lie to them and fake being something other than himself at first.
 
buddhababe79 said:
possibly! someone else suggested the same thing bc it looks like he may be wearing a watch on right arm
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I don't see that (I know lot of people do) - what I see is the back of his hand because it looks like his hand is in his pants pocket. They're definitely not in the pocket of hte blue coat - both are in his jeans or else the pocket of the hoodie which is hanging out from under the blue coat. But the back of hte right hand sticking out of the jeans pocket has always been what I've seen in that picture. JMO
 
Someone needs to make a podcast of all these threads so I can listen to them while I'm driving.
 
Elainera said:
Great post Irish_Eyes, and great sleuthing on the McStay case!

It kind of fits with what I was just gonna post, the link was provided by another member earlier but I'm sorry I can't remember who that was.

It's about the different types of serial killers, and I was wondering in which category our perp would fit. I quote part of the article:

"Thrill seekers are serial killers that see outsmarting the law as some sort of amusement. They enjoy attention from the media and they also enjoy being pursued by the police. They can be distinguished from other serial killers because of the fact that they send messages to others and they keep detailed records of their killings. Because of this, it is logical to say that most thrill seekers can be categorized as organized, but at the same time they do not always plan everything out in advance. For that, they are also seen as unorganized killers. Thrills seekers typically use weapons and/or rape their victims before killing them. After that, they hide the victim's corpse and they move on to their next victim, that is, unless of course they are caught in the act of doing so.

Mission-oriented serial killers are killers that feel that they are doing society a favor by ridding it of certain people; these can include young women, prostitutes, drug dealers, or homosexuals, people they feel that society could do without. These killers are generally not psychotic. Some see themselves as trying to change society. They always have a controlled crime scene, hence categorizing them as organized makes them much easier to track. However, since these killers always go after specific victims, this makes them much easier to track down.

Visionary serial killers are people that occaisionally suffer from psychotic breaks from society. They sometimes believe they are another person, or they are compelled to murder by higher entities such as God or the Devil. In fact, the two most common subcategories for visionary serial killers are demon-mandated and God-mandated. David Berkowitz is an example of such a killer. He had claimed that a demon transmitted orders to him through his neighbor's dog that told him to kill. Since visionary killers tend to be more unorganized than other killers, they are very easy to track down.

Power and Control serial killers enjoy their victim's terror, suffering and screaming. These killers tend to be very organized and they usually have a history of childhood abuse, which left them feeling powerless and inadequete as adults. Many of these killers also sexually abuse their victims, but they are not motivated by feelings of lust. To them, rape is simply another form of dominating the victim."

https://sites.google.com/site/psych...hat-are-the-different-types-of-serial-killers

If we can get a feel for what type of killer he is we might be able to deduct other possible behaviour patterns, habits, preferences, etc.

I think Abby's and Libby's killer was either a Thrill Seeker or a Power and Control killer.

What do you all think?
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Power and Control after being a child victim/having a very difficult and lonely childhood JMO
 
GA_Peach said:
Thank you for all of your pictures. It really gives us insight into the area.

In the picture above, is that opening in the gate from the cemetery to the area where the girls were found? If so, is it possible for BG to have parked at the cemetery and walked to the bridge? Based on what I have heard, there was a fence that would have prevented BG from doing that, but the picture above seems to indicate otherwise.

I keep thinking about BG's motive. If BG simply wanted Abby and Libby dead, he could have pushed them over the edge of the bridge. This creep better end up behind bars soon. Praying for the girls' families, loved ones, and friends.
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That wasn't the entrance into the cemetery. It's just a gate facing another property. Yes you can park at the back of the cemetery and your car is somewhat well hidden. Or rather not as noticeable. The fence is down at a path that leads from the back of the cemetery into the woods where the girls were found. There's a sign posted there that says "no trespassing-private property" which makes sense from the interview of the neighbor. The spotlight is facing towards the path.
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Steleheart said:
I have been baffled from the beginning about location and direction. We have discussed where Abby and Libby were when they were taking pictures, and it seems that most agree they were at the southerly end of the bridge.
But when I studied the candid picture of Abby that Libby took I noticed something that didn't register before.
She is standing more to the northerly end. She is practically right at the creek Just south of it. If you look westerly and down you see the water. That's a long way from the other end! There are 3 step-outs on each side and they are staggered east to west. On the northeast side of the bridge, the last step-out is behind Abby such that she is between the last and the center platform.
More north than south is my point. I now am convinced they left the bridge on the northwest end by the red posts.


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Yes they were at the end. Sooooo close to the gravel path to the road!


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Gunther Toody said:
The cemetery in question is called Milroy or Morning Heights (it goes by both, apparently) I considered the fact that he may have been visiting the cemetery and went for a wlk but that would mean he just came across the girls by accident since it appears that the bridge can not be seen from that location, based on the photos that are posted here.

I am more inclined to think he used the parking lot and walked along the trail.
He may have seen the girls being dropped off and followed at a distance as well.
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Thanks for the confirmation on the cemetery name. I found Morning Heights on Find A Grave but I wasn't positive it was the right one.
 
GGE said:
Power and Control after being a child victim/having a very difficult and lonely childhood JMO
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Over 75% of homicides of children of that age are sexually motivated.
There is insufficient data to call the perp a serial killer.

I see this guy as someone who saw two young girls enter a somewhat isolated wooded area and he believed he could take advantage of them for a sexual encounter. He may not have intended to kill them initially but feared that they could identify him. He may have even tried to reason with them after the encounter. In the end, self preservation took over and he took their lives.

The most common method of killing that age group is strangulation followed closely by blunt force trauma. Use of a gun is rare in that only 11% of the victims were shot in various studies.
 
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