JLM's clothes

[Just K]

would he risk driving back home with blood all over his lightly coloured clothes?
too obvious, ditch the light checked shirt & pants.
drive home in dark maroon tshirt, blood not so obvious if stopped & underpants (boxer shorts)

I think he ditched the clothes, that night before he drove home imo

Probably kept backup clothes in his trunk.

 

[MJPeony]

They don't mention Hannah's watch (or was it a bracelet) or her shoes. They also don't mention his socks He was wearing socks.

I'd think socks would be terribly hard to identify though. Pretty ubiquitous.

 

[human]

I am wondering about the cleaning up in a river or pond.

If it is a river, in the dark he would have no idea how deep it is.

Same with a pond. Walking into that maybe with muck.

Do schools have swimming ? We have pools in all of our middles schools and kids take swimming. Everyone learns how to swim. Is that true in VA?

 

[MJPeony]

No, not common for middle schools in C-ville to have swimming pools (I would have LOVED that though!). Can't legitimately speak for rest of VA, but in general I'd think no.

 

[human]

Is it possible that JLM does not know how to swim? Is it common for people there to not know how to swim?

If he doesn't, I cannot picture him cleaning up in a pond or river

 

[klily444]

I'm having a difficult time reconciling his having the foresight to get rid of his clothing yet keeping that hair when he was on the run. It's so distinctive, and I seriously doubt the woman on the beach would have recognized him if he'd cut it. Vanity is a possibility I suppose.

I'm not sure if this belongs in this thread or another.....

Clothing has evidence on it. The hair does not. JMO.

 

[MJPeony]

Is it possible that JLM does not know how to swim? Is it common for people there to not know how to swim?

If he doesn't, I cannot picture him cleaning up in a pond or river

Hm. That's an interesting possibility. I bet he does though b/c my guess is he would have gone swimming with friends (several pools around one of his frequented areas). He was an avid fisher, so I can definitely imagine him going into a river or pond regardless of swimming abilities. JMO

 

[Heroine]

I also thought they took clothes from the apartment. That's really curious...I thought warrants were fairly specific. Would they just randomly take clothes, or would they be looking for what was worn that night? What good do you think would it do to just round up clothes from JM's apartment?

Well if they can take MH's DNA off of her shirt couldn't they take JM's clothes and do the same? Although, I'm sure there must have been other things he hadn't taken that maybe they could have used, but maybe not.

 

[teeandcee]

Clothing has evidence on it. The hair does not. JMO.

Oh yes, I understand your point. If I was on the run and hiding from LE and the public I'd chop it all off. I'd get rid of the clothing too first thing, but that hair would have to go as soon as I got out of town. I bet he's kicking himself for not cutting it off.

In all my years of true crime reading it's always some dumb little detail like that that gets them caught. I find it amusing. ETA "amusing" that they get caught over something small and easily preventable, not amusing in general. I love seeing bad guys taken down.

 

[Soulmagent]

Jm had from 140 the 13th until Tuesday before any video was released that would concern him.

http://www.nbc29.com/story/26567187/police-release-person-of-interest-description-in-hannah-graham-case

If he was aware of the video , I am sure he clothes were washed by this time, and once the video was released he still had until that thursday to ditch those items ,which after he was aware of his DNA being found in 2 cases already I am sure he ditched those clothes after he washed them.

However if he followed Morgan case, he would know Police search the road side and tossing stuff in ditches and leaving stuff in the trash and on the roadside is not a sure bet things wont get found.

Where is the best place to hide things? Well if he washed it already and was moving (people tend to use the present time events to cover up lies and deceiption) and he had boxes packed up already..a .quick trip to a thrift store or donation box is a sure way not to draw attention to certain items, and since you would be ahead of anyone who was looking for those items , even if the item is damaged , tossed in a bag of crappy stuff it would not get a second look and either tossed in a baler to be sent off for whatever they do with those or pitched in a can with about 1,000 other items. Or resold to someone else. Hiding in plain sight. JMO.

 

[dotr]

Oh yes, I understand your point. If I was on the run and hiding from LE and the public I'd chop it all off. I'd get rid of the clothing too first thing, but that hair would have to go as soon as I got out of town. I bet he's kicking himself for not cutting it off.

In all my years of true crime reading it's always some dumb little detail like that that gets them caught. I find it amusing. ETA "amusing" that they get caught over something small and easily preventable, not amusing in general. I love seeing bad guys taken down.

He may not have cut his dreads because he did not want to start looking like the sketch in the MH case again, if he cut them, then his 'supporters" might think that he really was guilty of something.

As for dumb/ arrogant things bringing down an sk. ... The particularly bright former Col. Russell Williams, had on the very boots he was wearing when he murdered, to a police station interview. They matched the shoe print right there and then, to the print from the murder scene.
For anyone who might be unfamiliar with this case, that interview/interrogation was a masterpiece, RW ended up pinpointing where his victim's body would be located on the LE map.


That interview...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLJzNpVrcGU

 

[MJPeony]

He may not have cut his dreads because he did not want to start looking like the sketch in the MH case again, if he cut them, then his 'supporters" might think that he really was guilty of something.

As for dumb/ arrogant things bringing down an sk. ... The particularly bright former Col. Russell Williams, had on the very boots he was wearing when he murdered, to a police station interview. They matched the shoe print right there and then, to the print from the murder scene.
For anyone who might be unfamiliar with this case, that interview/interrogation was a masterpiece, RW ended up pinpointing where his victim's body would be located on the LE map.


That interview...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLJzNpVrcGU

That interview/interrogation is fascinating.

ETA: I am hoping that JM will get someone like that interrogator to speak with him.

 

[njgolden1120]

My perception of the video and still shots is that he is wearing no shoes at all.

Looks like both. Some shots looks like ankle socks with the grey toe. If you look as he's walking through the door it looks like the white follows the shape of the foot. A shoe I think would have more a straight line. My opinion only.

 

[Emaa]

He may not have cut his dreads because he did not want to start looking like the sketch in the MH case again, if he cut them, then his 'supporters" might think that he really was guilty of something.

As for dumb/ arrogant things bringing down an sk. ... The particularly bright former Col. Russell Williams, had on the very boots he was wearing when he murdered, to a police station interview. They matched the shoe print right there and then, to the print from the murder scene.
For anyone who might be unfamiliar with this case, that interview/interrogation was a masterpiece, RW ended up pinpointing where his victim's body would be located on the LE map.


That interview...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLJzNpVrcGU

He obviously thought he was smarter than that aw-shucks young cop.

Cop was brilliant.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Re: The "missing clothes"

In this article of Sept. 19, which was the same day the first searches were done, Longo discussed the ID of JLM. Here, the clothes he was wearing are described as white. There's no doubt they look white in the video at Sal's, but I'm surprised at this description given that LE had already spoken to WG (who apparently is REALLY bad in clothing observation), and they had already talked with people at Tempo. Don't you think LE would have gotten a description of the blue checked shirt from Tempo? The door person had several memorable encounters with him that night, and I know people don't always pay real close attention to details, but you would think they would have noticed it wasn't white. Anyway, possibly the clothing that LE said they were looking for and did find in the search, were white clothes they thought he was wearing. Or did he change them? I don't know when he would have found the time, but it wouldn't take that long to change a shirt at the car.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/19/missing-virginia-student/15890571/

"Police who searched a car and a condo Friday in connection with the disappearance of a University of Virginia student almost a week ago say they have identified the man who was with Hannah Graham when she was last seen.

Witnesses saw Graham, 18, of Alexandria, Va., inside a downtown restaurant and bar early Saturday with a 32-year-old man who had been observed earlier on surveillance video tailing the sophomore, Charlottesville Police Chief Tim Longo said.

Before the two entered the bar, witnesses saw the man, dressed in all white, put his hands around Graham's waist. At the bar, the man bought alcohol, and he and Graham left after 15 minutes, Longo said."

 

[teeandcee]

Re: The "missing clothes"

In this article of Sept. 19, which was the same day the first searches were done, Longo discussed the ID of JLM. Here, the clothes he was wearing are described as white. There's no doubt they look white in the video at Sal's, but I'm surprised at this description given that LE had already spoken to WG (who apparently is REALLY bad in clothing observation), and they had already talked with people at Tempo. Don't you think LE would have gotten a description of the blue checked shirt from Tempo? The door person had several memorable encounters with him that night, and I know people don't always pay real close attention to details, but you would think they would have noticed it wasn't white. Anyway, possibly the clothing that LE said they were looking for and did find in the search, were white clothes they thought he was wearing. Or did he change them? I don't know when he would have found the time, but it wouldn't take that long to change a shirt at the car.

My guess is the Tempo door person's memory was light/maybe white. Even knowing it's colored my memory/impression is "light/possibly white" when I think of the Tempo pics.

On the other hand, they also said JM was a reflection so maybe the LE person who studied that video needs to be fired.

 

[Conductor71]

I think that I may have figured some of this out. LE said they were looking for three specific items of clothing belonging to LJM. We were also wondering why these pieces when he was clearly wearing all white the night he and HG were seen together.

LE likely has ALL of his clothing to the extent he had (has) nothing to wear?!?

Sept 23 investigators return to his apt and leave with bags of clothes

Sept 26 LJM appears before judge in TX in prep for return to VA. Asks judge why he has no clothing:

Matthew said: 'Oh sir. Like, they took all of my clothes...'I don't feel like I'm... I should be able to have some kind of clothes.'
An apparently unimpressed Judge[ Henry responded curtly: 'You appear to me to be dressed in a jumpsuit.'
Matthew responded: 'Well, once I get back they are going to take my jumpsuit off.'
The judge explained that he had to be cleared by medical which is why his jumpsuit would be removed but he then would be given the clothing back.

Oct 8 “He was pacing a lot, and he seemed to be only wearing a brown blanket around his waist." Observation of LJM by another man in VA prison cell

I thought it was odd as he seemed to suggest that all his clothing was taken and that the jumpsuit was just A temporary thing too. Now the brown blanket makes more sense.

Is he still without any clothing. Drawing inferences here, but it sounds like LE wants every piece of clothing he had in his wardrobe and that they now have everything but the blue checkered shirt, etc.

Why would that be necessary if they already have the HG night white clothes and she purportedly got into his car never to be seen again? Are they suggesting that he had these in his car or hidden elsewhere the night of her disappearance?

As for taking the clothes he wore in TX, this was to check for any evidence he took HG across state lines, I am guessing. Maybe this is why they LE was so certain the search for HG did not need to extend beyond VA.

 

[Soulmagent]

I think that I may have figured some of this out. LE said they were looking for three specific items of clothing belonging to LJM. We were also wondering why these pieces when he was clearly wearing all white the night he and HG were seen together.

LE likely has ALL of his clothing to the extent he had (has) nothing to wear?!?

Sept 23 investigators return to his apt and leave with bags of clothes

Sept 26 LJM appears before judge in TX in prep for return to VA. Asks judge why he has no clothing:

Matthew said: 'Oh sir. Like, they took all of my clothes...'I don't feel like I'm... I should be able to have some kind of clothes.'
An apparently unimpressed Judge[ Henry responded curtly: 'You appear to me to be dressed in a jumpsuit.'
Matthew responded: 'Well, once I get back they are going to take my jumpsuit off.'
The judge explained that he had to be cleared by medical which is why his jumpsuit would be removed but he then would be given the clothing back.

Oct 8 “He was pacing a lot, and he seemed to be only wearing a brown blanket around his waist." Observation of LJM by another man in VA prison cell

I thought it was odd as he seemed to suggest that all his clothing was taken and that the jumpsuit was just A temporary thing too. Now the brown blanket makes more sense.

Is he still without any clothing. Drawing inferences here, but it sounds like LE wants every piece of clothing he had in his wardrobe and that they now have everything but the blue checkered shirt, etc.

Why would that be necessary if they already have the HG night white clothes and she purportedly got into his car never to be seen again? Are they suggesting that he had these in his car or hidden elsewhere the night of her disappearance?

As for taking the clothes he wore in TX, this was to check for any evidence he took HG across state lines, I am guessing. Maybe this is why they LE was so certain the search for HG did not need to extend beyond VA.

He was not all in white clothes.

Even if LE had every piece of clothing he owned it would not have anything to do with the brown blanket or him not having clothes in jail.
I dont know how LE would know every piece of clothing he had to say they needed it all.

No one gets their own clothing in Jail. I guess I am missing your point.

People who act crazy in jail dont get clothes until it is decided it is safe for them to have them.

 

[Conductor71]

He was not all in white clothes.

Even if LE had every piece of clothing he owned it would not have anything to do with the brown blanket or him not having clothes in jail.
I dont know how LE would know every piece of clothing he had to say they needed it all.

No one gets their own clothing in Jail. I guess I am missing your point.

People who act crazy in jail dont get clothes until it is decided it is safe for them to have them.

I understand this might not mean a thing...but LJM seems to be saying that his he is essentially nude. His clothes have been taken, he is given a jumpsuit for court appearance, then it is taken back when he returns to the cell. Two weeks later he has nothing but a blanket wrapped around his waist. A blanket is the only thing that is suicide proof? Why then does he only have a blanket? Is this standard practice for any prisoner on suicide watch?

He is wearing a light colored shirt and white pants but since none of us were actually there, and only b/w video, it is difficult to say with any air of authority what colors he had on.

 

[cady]

I'm having a difficult time reconciling his having the foresight to get rid of his clothing yet keeping that hair when he was on the run. It's so distinctive, and I seriously doubt the woman on the beach would have recognized him if he'd cut it. Vanity is a possibility I suppose.

I'm not sure if this belongs in this thread or another.....

Somewhere back in these multiple threads I read that a friend of his teased him about looking like the sketch that was generated from (I can't remember which) an abduction......(maybe the woman who escaped?)....anyway, the friend, when interviewed, said that after the sketch was published, LJ started to grow his hair and eventually it became dreadlocks. IMO, dreads could have been shorn if they were the identifier in this case, which is why I suspect that we were told to look for a closely-cropped to bald-headed guy. I think that LE figured he would lose the dreads. JMO *or that the dreads were a disguise.