Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #3 *M. Bridger guilty*

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I posted on the previous thread just before it closed down....But I wonder if he MB is suffering from late on set schizophrenia. This illness usually presents after the age 40..The evidence would point to him having been there and involved but he can't provide any information. It could obviously be that he doesnt want to tell anyone what he did, but it could also be that he literally cannot remember doing it.

I am not suggesting this to excuse this behaviour, but possibly as a reason as to why MB was "unable" to assist police with their enquiries. And possibly if this is the case then the key in finding aprils body is bringing out the other personality?? JMO

Possibly, although I think the key to all of this, if he is the right man, is in the relationship between him and the family and him and his previous (recently separated from) partner.

He was from what I read over the weekend, a good friend of April's father. He knew April and probably had since she was born. He was considered safe enough to take her out 'crabbing' for the day and for rides in the car...

He was at the parent's evening...and then started (possibly) driving/ behaving erratically - which as I have said before, may have been down to his car playing up, or because something happened there.

Was the ex-girlf (of only a week) there? Did she say or do something that set him off. As far as I understood, he was parked up outside her house on the estate the evening that April went missing.

I think the ex-girlf holds the clue to what and why....if at all.

And if he does have late onset schizophrenia (which I know nothing about) then perhaps that exacerbated the situation and made him act totally out of character.
 
I think you may be mixing up clinical schizophrenia with the old movie portrayal of it as being two personae occupying one body. Clinical schizophrenia is a psychosis and it tends to be fairly obvious once it's bad enough to result in killing that the sufferer cannot account for. You do hear of cases like that, and the perp usually gets transferred to hospital shortly after being arrested, and cannot be taken to court for some time, as they would not be deemed capable of fully understanding their charges and the ramifications thereof.

Certainly not claiming to be a psychologist, but it was just a re-occuring thought I had....I read this article which to me could fit MB

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19425390

"Generally, paranoid delusions of reference with family members, neighbors, and friends are observed as clinical features of such late-onset schizophrenia conditions"

" A total of 65.8% of the population of late-onset cases were diagnosed as having psychosocial stresses as their cause. In addition, 36 % of subjects with psychosocial stress recognition had experienced a sense of loss. Of these, 66.6% of the loss experience involved separation from their family members"

These two statements stood right out to me...
 
<snipped>

Although I agree that MB doesn't "quack like a duck" in this case, I am bearing in mind that he may have admitted to *some* level of involvement already - maybe making up some story like Huntley did about accidental killing (child accidentally fell into bath while having a nosebleed, istr?)

I wondered that too - but then he carried on acting like Huntley and rather than report an accident, has allegedly concealed the body. If he is going to follow in Huntley's footsteps, then he deserves Huntley's punishment.

I feel they should keeping a close suicide watch on MB
JMO
 
Hi Sarahlou - that's exactly my point - he doesn't look like a monster so we are trying to demonise him by working out whether having beer cans AND wine bottles, or specific tattoos, or 3 partners in 20 years etc makes him a monster and my personal thoughts are, no. He either is a monster or he is not. So far based on what we know (including beer cans, tattoos, relationships etc) I am not sure and that's why this smells uncomfortable to me. It seems that it is also not smelling right to many others.

With the Tia Sharpe case, which is when I joined the forum, I posted almost at the beginning that if it looked like a duck, walked like a duck and quacked, it was a duck. And it was and everyone was in agreement and so there was almost a collective sigh of relief that they had got the right man (albeit incredible dismay and sadness that it was not a 'Shannon Matthews' type situation and that poor Tia was dead RIP).

So far, with the very little I know, it's not looking, sounding, or walking like a duck....and yet, it may be a duck.

PS. When I watched the interview with Huntley, I knew he was their man, likewise with the Tia Sharp case...and various other cases. My gut is 'uncomfortable' with this situation and I know not why.

My gut is uncomfotable with this too. I joined the forum when Jill Meagher went missing and was stunned at how many were adamant that her husband had something to do with it, my gut said it wasn't him and my gut was right.

I think there are still queries with this case, the vehicle colour discrepancy, that the police didn't go straight to his house, which would be the obvious thing to do if you thought he had something to do with it.

its all too convenient.
 
some kind of medical event certainly might be a reason for failure to disclose the body , he simply and honestly may not know . however i would have assumed that if his state of mind was considered to be impaired he would have been taken to a secure hospital for evaluation and to be stabilized . i dont know anything much about schitzophrenia but as far as i am aware most illnesses increase in intensity either over a longer period of time or a week or even days or hours . i think people who saw/ spoke with him in the days and hours leading up to aprils dissapearance would retrospectively be able to say wether his behaviour was bizzare and or erratic.
 
What concerns me with this case (and I guess why I have a strong feeling that it smells wrong) is that witness accounts, descriptions and personality traits etc of MB seem to have been made to fit with what the police know and not the other way around.

Hi Adorabella

I hear what you're saying and I am also "uncomfortable" with elements of this case. I'm going to try and play devil's advocate and add some detail and a few of my own concerns if I may - I hope you don't mind. I've respectfully snipped some of your post for brevity. Also, I haven't included MSM links so as not to clutter the post but if there's anything you want a link to, please ask and I'll try and provide it.

From what I have understood is that a 7 year old girl (and ONLY a 7 year old girl) initially saw April get into a vehicle. The ONLY thing about that apparent vehicle that ties it to MB is that it was LH drive. It was described in an opposite manner to the vehicle that the police later made public. That child KNEW MB and yet did not say it was his car and if she did then why did the police put out an incorrect description of the vehicle that they were looking for?

We don't know whether the 7 year-old child knew MB or not. MB's children (with ED) had been playing with April earlier but the witness was MH who is not a blood relative of MB. However the rest of your paragraph still stands if she did know him. On the day MB was arrested, the A487 was closed from the bridge for a 12 mile stretch and police cars were photographed together with a white transit van. Quite a coincidence.

Why is it the car they made public was seen parked on his driveway (although apparently 'missing' for an hour early Tuesday morning) - was not impounded straight away? It was right there...and had been described to them and was owned by a man 'known' to them and named? Why wait until 3.30pm on Tuesday to arrest him when they could have gone straight round to his home...or at least first thing the next morning when he and his car were available to them?

MB had recently split up with VF. Perhaps nobody knew immediately where he was living?

MB the owner of the car that was not impounded immediately, nor needed to be searched for as it was RIGHT THERE, was also right there - NOT in hiding, NOT running away and apparently joining in the search. Witnesses stated that - he was searching with them - NOT that he was acting suspiciously until AFTER he was named as a suspect, when it seemed witnesses started stating what had already been made public.

I don't think I've seen a direct quote from a witness who said that they were searching with MB but I may have missed it.

As far as I am aware, MB is a man who had LONG term relationships. Yes, he had a few (is it 3 total?) but that does not make him a murderer, paedophile nor anti-scocial etc. As far as I am aware, he had not been alone for a long period of time, he had split up only a week earlier...and based on the fact that he had long term relationships, seems to be a man who didn't want to be on his own.

He met JW in 1989 whilst they were both working at the Wynnstay hotel. They married in 1990, had 2 sons and possibly one other child. They split up in 1992.
MB's second partner was ED with whom he had 2 children. MB and ED were together for 10 years. His 3rd partner was CR but we don't know how long they were together. His most recent partner was VF. VF is the person who reported to the press what MH had seen. Quite a coincidence again.

I've seen it reported that MB and VF had only been separated a week however, it's also reported that he rented Mount Pleasant since the beginning of September. Those things seem contradictory to me as I would have thought he would rent a new place after the break up. Mixed up reporting perhaps.

A couple of other unusual aspects in this case which may or may not have any relevance. This is the first time that the Child Rescue Alert system has been invoked in the UK. This is the first time I have ever heard of the police confirming a suspects identity before charging them.

I have no problem keeping an open mind because we all know that the public knows so little before a trial and we all know that the press reports are not the same as evidence. But I share your feeling that somethings not quite right here and I don't know what or why.

One thing's for sure though - I will be following the trial should there be one.
 
Looks like the database is screwed up, every time I try to quote I am getting taken back to the last thread on this case. Time to optimize and repair I think.
 
Looks like the database is screwed up, every time I try to quote I am getting taken back to the last thread on this case. Time to optimize and repair I think.

Have you alerted a mod?
 
Looks like the database is screwed up, every time I try to quote I am getting taken back to the last thread on this case. Time to optimize and repair I think.

Hi jaldy80 :)

I seen you all were having problems yesterday and I thought maybe the new thread would help with that. I'm not sure but I will alert and let Admin know so maybe they can let us know why its happening.

Ima
 
<respectfully snipped at both ends>
From what I have understood is that a 7 year old girl (and ONLY a 7 year old girl) initially saw April get into a vehicle. The ONLY thing about that apparent vehicle that ties it to MB is that it was LH drive. It was described in an opposite manner to the vehicle that the police later made public. That child KNEW MB and yet did not say it was his car and if she did then why did the police put out an incorrect description of the vehicle that they were looking for?

Why is it the car they made public was seen parked on his driveway (although apparently 'missing' for an hour early Tuesday morning) - was not impounded straight away? It was right there...and had been described to them and was owned by a man 'known' to them and named? Why wait until 3.30pm on Tuesday to arrest him when they could have gone straight round to his home...or at least first thing the next morning when he and his car were available to them?

This is the exact same tree I have been barking up from the get go. I have had a bad feeling about this and wondered if they really 'have their man'.

And then I re-watch the news conference headed by Iwan Jenkins of the CPS.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-19853582 (the video at the top of the page)

The CPS have come in for some arguably deserved ridicule in the past and have made serious errors of judgement. They seem to consider both their words and deeds more carefully than ever now, and quite rightly too.

They would not be so foolish as rely on the testimony of a 7 year old in court. They will have uncovered a significant amount of concrete evidence that is grave enough for them to believe they can prosecute and obtain a conviction when this goes to trial. Just because we are not aware of it does not mean it doesn't exist.

How do Crown Prosecutors make the decision to charge a suspect with a crime?
The Crown Prosecutor will read the papers in the file and look at the evidence collected by the police. They then consider whether the case passes the two tests laid down in The Code for Crown Prosecutors.

1.The Evidential Test
The prosecutor must first decide whether or not there is enough evidence against the defendant for them to be convicted of the crime in a court of law.

This means that the magistrates or jury are more likely than not to convict the defendant of the charge. If there is not a realistic prospect of conviction, the case must not go ahead, no matter how important or serious it may be.
It is the duty of every Crown Prosecutor to make sure that the right person is prosecuted for the right offence. In doing so, Crown Prosecutors must always act in the interests of justice and not just to get a conviction.

2. The Public Interest Test
If the prosecutor decides that there is a realistic prospect of conviction, he or she must then consider whether it is in the public interest to prosecute the defendant. Broadly speaking the more serious an alleged offence the more likely it will be that a prosecution is needed in the public interest. However each case is looked at individually.

A prosecution is less likely to be needed if, for example, a court would be likely to fix a minimal or token penalty, or the loss or harm connected with the offence was minor and the result of a single incident.

The interests of the victim are an important factor when considering the public interest. Crown Prosecutors will always take into account the consequences for the victim and any views expressed by the victim or victim's family.

However, The Crown Prosecution Service does not act for victims or the families of victims in the same way as solicitors act for their clients. We act on behalf of the public and not just in the interests of any particular individual.

So, do I think they have their man? Yes

Do I think they have enough evidence to prosecute? Yes

Do I think there may be someone else involved? :fence: I'm on the fence with that one.

If you want to read more about how the CPS decide to charge, there's some information at the link below

http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/fact_sheets/decision_to_charge/

JMO :moo:
 
From what I have understood is that a 7 year old girl (and ONLY a 7 year old girl) initially saw April get into a vehicle. The ONLY thing about that apparent vehicle that ties it to MB is that it was LH drive. It was described in an opposite manner to the vehicle that the police later made public. That child KNEW MB and yet did not say it was his car and if she did then why did the police put out an incorrect description of the vehicle that they were looking for?

Clearly the child did not know it was MB's vehicle, and the police put out the description given by the seven-year old. Remember, it was dusk when she saw the car.

Why is it the car they made public was seen parked on his driveway (although apparently 'missing' for an hour early Tuesday morning) - was not impounded straight away?

Even if LE had worked out by then that it was the car they were looking for, how would they know it was in the tiny hamlet of Ceinws? I doubt that they even knew that MB had moved to Ceinws only a few weeks ago.

It was right there...and had been described to them and was owned by a man 'known' to them and named? Why wait until 3.30pm on Tuesday to arrest him when they could have gone straight round to his home...or at least first thing the next morning when he and his car were available to them?

Again, it would take time to discover that MB had recently moved to Ceinws - they can't just look him up on the electoral roll.

If he is and was the most obvious person, perhaps acting immediately may have resulted in April being found asap.

I think you need to put yourself in the position of the police back on Tuesday morning. Consider how little they knew at that stage.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, of course!
 
One thing that has been puzzling me regarding this. MB had around 20 hours from the time April was taken to the time he was arrested. He could have drove anywhere up and down the country during this time. Scotland, East England, South. Anywhere. He could have made it there and back again during the night.

Do police have evidence she is still in the area? Has he admitted to leaving her somewhere in the area for them to search so extensively? Has a witness come forward saying he was definitely in the area during these times? I guess we won't know until the trial...
 
I want to make clear that I am not saying that I think MB is the wrong guy - just that something feels wrong. I wouldn't presume to know one way or the other.

However, just found and article (written some time ago) in the Guardian that states: "The Lord Chancellor's Department's statistics on successful appeals against criminal conviction show that in the decade 1989-1999 the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) abated over 8,470 criminal convictions - a yearly average of 770. In addition, there are around 3,500 quashed criminal convictions a year at the Crown Court for convictions obtained at the magistrates' courts. Contrary to popular perceptions, then, wrongful criminal convictions are a normal, everyday feature of the criminal justice system - the system doesn't just sometimes get it wrong, it gets it wrong everyday, of every week, of every month of every year. With the result that thousands of innocent people experience a whole variety of harmful consequences that wrongful criminal convictions engender."

Here's the link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/jul/28/ukcrime.prisonsandprobation.

I had no idea so many innocent people were and are convicted. Yikes! :(
 
How would they know where he lived, given that he'd only just moved?


in a small community it would be known.

I'm not sure what the requirements are in Wales for change of address notifications for licences, I've always had mine changed within the first week of moving.


my father is welsh but neglected to educate me about his homeland
 
@ aust amateur slueth "in a small community it would be known"

That's not always the case.
 
Hello All!

I was unable to 'quote' from the last thread either but that glitch seems to have righted itself with this new thread.

What concerns me with this case (and I guess why I have a strong feeling that it smells wrong) is that witness accounts, descriptions and personality traits etc of MB seem to have been made to fit with what the police know and not the other way around.

From what I have understood is that a 7 year old girl (and ONLY a 7 year old girl) initially saw April get into a vehicle. The ONLY thing about that apparent vehicle that ties it to MB is that it was LH drive. It was described in an opposite manner to the vehicle that the police later made public. That child KNEW MB and yet did not say it was his car and if she did then why did the police put out an incorrect description of the vehicle that they were looking for?

Why is it the car they made public was seen parked on his driveway (although apparently 'missing' for an hour early Tuesday morning) - was not impounded straight away? It was right there...and had been described to them and was owned by a man 'known' to them and named? Why wait until 3.30pm on Tuesday to arrest him when they could have gone straight round to his home...or at least first thing the next morning when he and his car were available to them?

If he is and was the most obvious person, perhaps acting immediately may have resulted in April being found asap.

MB the owner of the car that was not impounded immediately, nor needed to be searched for as it was RIGHT THERE, was also right there - NOT in hiding, NOT running away and apparently joining in the search. Witnesses stated that - he was searching with them - NOT that he was acting suspiciously until AFTER he was named as a suspect, when it seemed witnesses started stating what had already been made public.

Had MB been a member of the public to find April alive, his shortcomings would be described as positives: rather than see his many jobs as a negative, he would be described as someone who tried hard to find work, whatever it was etc. Isn't that exactly what the press and public are telling us Brits what we ought to be doing - taking whatever work is available rather than claiming benefits?

Do we actually know when he last worked? How much he was paid? Whether he was frugal? I'm sure I don't know...nor how that makes him guilty, or not.

He MAY be guilty but as yet he is not. I am finding it increasingly uncomfortable that what seem to be 'ordinary' human behaviours are being turned around in order to demonise him and make him 'fit' a guilty persona. I want the evidence to do that.

For example: QUOTE: A potent message the Scorpion chooses to express is that of protection and/or isolation. In fact, they themselves are quite solitary - part of the reason why they symbolize In fact, many people with the Scorpion as their totem tend to have brief spells of passion with a partner only to end the relationship and spend long periods content to be alone.

That seems to describe MB's lifestyle exactly. QUOTE

As far as I am aware, MB is a man who had LONG term relationships. Yes, he had a few (is it 3 total?) but that does not make him a murderer, paedophile nor anti-scocial etc. As far as I am aware, he had not been alone for a long period of time, he had split up only a week earlier...and based on the fact that he had long term relationships, seems to be a man who didn't want to be on his own.

Maybe, just maybe, he chose a Scorpion for a tattoo because he likes the image, or because he is born under that sign?

I know we are all looking for clues but in the midst of that it seems that we know very little as being factual and that is what is making me uncomfortable.

If MB is guilty then I couldn't be happier that he is in custody and will be for a very long time to come. However, based ONLY on what I know (as in what has been made public) it seems as though there are more theories than evidence and conclusions are being made to fit him to the crime with what little there is.

Yesterday, my husband and I were out and about in town and country. We saw a 40+ year old man parked up in an old Defender wearing camo in the middle of a field and didn't find that suspicious.

We saw a foreign, light, creamy-grey coloured Mondeo Estate (LH drive) go past us on the M1 - looked small at the front and big at the back....fitted the description of the wanted car to a 'T' and looked entirely different to a navy blue Defender.

We saw a family with two young children, the man looked similar to MB and had tattoos and did not immediately think child killer/ sex offender....

What I am trying to say (I think) is that MB seems pretty much like a big percentage of the male population. He does not look like a monster (albeit he may be one) and that the only thing that I can see that will point to his guilt, will be that there is irrefutable evidence that he is guilty and nothing else.

So well-written and erudite, Adorabella.

This morning, reviewing all reports and material, I have an uneasy feeling that there is something wrong with this case. If he didn't do it, his life is already ruined. I thought the police would have had rock solid, incontrovertable evidence to back up the charges, but now I am wondering... God, it doesn't bear thinking about if they've got the wrong man.
 
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