AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #3

[Doghairrules]

Has he ever had a real job? How is he going to adjust to working eight or nine hours every day?

Omg. You mean his work at the family research council, during which he may have been looking at *advertiser censored* and planning his affairs, wasn't a real job? Is it because he had no qualifications for the job or because it's so easy for him to spew hate??? Inquiring minds need to know! [emoji12]


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[Cardinal47]

Where is ANY counseling? Or group therapy???


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Sounds to me like a place to hide until things cool down. Once again being enabled....

 

[wendiesan]

King David had a harem, it was cool for him to be with as many women as he fancied, his problem was, he had an affair with a married women. The captain of his army.

IIRC, David had his friend, Uriah the Hittite, and honourable man and a trusted captain, whacked by Joab. (David told Joab to put Uriah in the front lines so he was a target.) David had impregnated Bathsheba, and had to hide the fact when Uriah refused to sleep with his wife during a time of battle. Uriah had no idea of Bathsheba's affair with David. ETA

26 When the wife of Uriah heard that Uriah her husband was dead, she mourned for her husband. 27 And when her mourning was over, David sent and brought her to his house, and she became his wife and bore him a son. But the thing that David had done displeased the Lord.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Samuel+11-12&version=NKJV

Interesting choice of reference.

 

[Cubby]

I think that one reason that families like the Duggars trend towards "recovery" programs like the Recovery Unanimous scam (and I do believe it to be a scam) is that they allow ongoing denial. One of the tenets of RU, according to their lit, is that any discussion of "past lifestyles" is "ungodly," and therefore forbidden (talking bad about the food is also forbidden and may require a period of fasting and prayer). Further, program participants are required to rat one another out for rule infractions or else receive the same punishment as the transgressor. There's no chance of anyone digging around in any past issues or finding any family secrets in such a system.

Looking at their literature, they only list two staff persons. Oddly, both are pictured with their wives in joined at the hip pictures, with their years of experience combined (as if a guy with five years experience actually has 10 years), and discussed as if the unrecognized wife is actually doing half of the work. Neither staff person has any credentials expected of a therapist, technician, or even ministry so far as I can tell.

It looks like the bulk of "treatment" comes from working through a serious of workbooks, journaling and memorizing the Bible. Oh, and working. That would be "community service," in the form of "volunteering" for the entity's "business partners." And this would be substantial--7:30 to 4:30 five days a week. And this is why I view this whole thing as a scam (as opposed to well-meaning but misguided folks who earnestly believe in their variation of prayer-therapy). Not quite sure of the size of this operation, but even if its only 10-15 inmates (er, clients), that would be 10-15 FTEs of free labor provided to some "business partners" in exchange for what, exactly? I think that there was a church in Akron that recently got busted for a similar scam--requiring church members "volunteer" to run a for-profit restaurant that kept the church running (and bought a luxury aircraft for the minister).

End of the day, addiction treatment according to commonly accepted practice has a fairly low long-term recovery rate (still, far better than nothing). I don't see anything associated with RU to indicate that anyone has any notion what their success rate is.

Simply put, whatever the recovery rates are at any treatment program, there isn't much chance for recovery when someone is being enabled. Josh is being enabled and will continue to be enabled by his wife, his family and their belief system. Without consequences what reason would Josh have to get better as opposed to just finding different or better ways of hiding his secrets?

There is a reason for the saying peop,e are only as sick as their secrets. This treatmenf program Josh chose advocates keeping those secrets. There is too much knowledge about legitimate recovery programs for Josh and the Duggars to be puling tbe wool over anyones eyes.

I predict a relapse shortly after completing this program. They won't kick him out, there's too much publicity to be made with such a well known client.

 

[wendiesan]

I was content to assume Josh was a NON pedo when the story first broke and I thought they were similarly aged ' peer' victims. When I heard the youngest was 5 or 6, that idea went out the window. But I do not know 100% so I accept and respect all opinions on that .

http://www.childmolestationprevention.org/pages/focus_on_the_cause.html

Diagnostic criteria for pedophilia

Pedophilia is a well-known disorder. It's defined by the American Psychiatric Association in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, DSM-IV-TR.

You may be familiar with the main features of this disorder, but we want to be sure you understand the importance of some of the details.

To be diagnosed with pedophilia, a person must:

be sexually aroused by, have intense, recurring sexual fantasies of, or be involved in sexual behavior with a prepubescent child or children (generally 13 years or younger);
be aroused by, have sexual fantasies of, or be involved with a child for at least six months.;
be at least 16 years old, and
be at least five years older than the child or children he or she is attracted to.

IIRC, JD was 15 at the time of the molestations, but he was, again IIRC, between 5 and 10 years older than the girls he molested. So he may not fit the definition of pedophilia.


It's also true that just because someone sexually molests a child doesn't mean they have a diagnosable disorder. There is a big difference between a child molester and a pedophile.

A child molester is someone who sexually touches a child. What defines a child molester is the fact that a child molester has molested a child. A child molester always has a child victim....

The distinction: Child molesters include four categories of people: much older children, mentally or medically disabled, antisocials, and people with an ongoing sex drive directed toward children. Within that last category, there exist adults, teenagers, and children who are in an early stage. They have thoughts of sexually touching children or younger children, they have urges to sexually touch children or younger children, they have had these thoughts for more than six months, but they have never molested a child. It's that early stage - the stage before the person with an ongoing sex drive directed toward children becomes a child molester- that allows all of us to act to stop 95% of the sex acts against our children before they happen. Early intervention is possible.

FWIW, I think it's really very sad that real counselling, therapy that could have made a huge difference to JD and his victims, was denied to them.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Honestly, I see the value of not having "counseling" about the *advertiser censored*/sex addiction right away. His brain is now wired to be turned on by the *advertiser censored* and I don't know that focusing on that will help at all. If you want to something to grow in your life, you focus on it and give it attention. If you want something to wither, you neglect it. So, I think spending a considerable amount of time AWAY from the computer and away from the unhealthy stimulation including conversations is needed before any progress can be made.


The *advertiser censored* obviously was pleasurable to him. He needs to find something else that gives him that same pleasure.

Snipped and BBM for focus

On the other hand, absence makes the heart grow fonder, and forbidden fruit is always more attractive than the permitted kind.

Anyone who devises anything not on the schedule 1 or 2 drug list that gives the same pleasure as *advertiser censored* to those who find *advertiser censored* pleasurable will find themselves richer than Midas.

 

[human]

Actually I think he is pretty smart and knows quite a bit about working.

He worked for his dad rehabbing homes and then opened his own car lot that seemed to be doing quite well. He moved from a parking lot to a large facility.

I remember a road trip Josh and Anna took to her sisters home in Illinois. They had a huge RV he was driving. Had some mechanical trouble and he pulled over to the side and fixed it pretty easily.

He drove his family and Anna's sisters family to downtown Chicago and that's a feat in its self.

He was making speeches in Washington, DC in front of large crowds. So he is able to be a public speaker.

Of course this was all on reality tv so who knows what was really happening.

I think he and Anna could have done quite well but then....well you know.

They did that show Home Makeover, I think it is called, close to my home.

Many people I know participated in it. It is so phony that we were all upset by it. I imagine it was the same for the Duggars.

 

[T4Tide]

The more of your posts I read, the more I like you. [emoji7]


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Awww, now.....there ya go a makin' me blush. :blush:

 

[gitana1]

Has he ever had a real job? How is he going to adjust to working eight or nine hours every day?

Yes. He worked a regular job for the FRC.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Snipped and BBM for focus

On the other hand, absence makes the heart grow fonder, and forbidden fruit is always more attractive than the permitted kind.

Anyone who devises anything not on the schedule 1 or 2 drug list that gives the same pleasure as *advertiser censored* to those who find *advertiser censored* pleasurable will find themselves richer than Midas.

Counseling should be dealing with stuff other than the simple act of use. It should explore setting conditions, guilt feelings, admission of what was done and acceptance of consequences. Not really about replaying the attractions.

 

[gitana1]

Counseling should be dealing with stuff other than the simple act of use. It should explore setting conditions, guilt feelings, admission of what was done and acceptance of consequences. Not really about replaying the attractions.

Right. But I think he needs serious counseling about his sexuality in general, how his actions seriously harm the women and children in his life and how females aren't sex objects-but people.

He's no addict to me. But I think he has quite disorder thinking about sex and females. He needs a lot of work to unlearn what he has learned about sex, the body, the right of women to autonomy, the rights of women and children to dignity and to be safe and free from predation, etc. All things he has no chance of learning within his cultural context.

In his world, sexual acting out is simply a manifestation of sin and the devil. So "treating" that sin involves not changing one's thinking patterns, but instead, punishment and prayer.

Without real therapy to address why he feels it is okay to use women and children's bodies for his own pleasure without understand or caring about the harm he causes to those he uses and to his family, it's hopeless.

Oh and I don't believe he is a sociopath. I think he is a predator but not everyone who does evil things has a personality disorder. I think he's simply selfish and repressed and acting out years of being taught that men control women and children and their bodies. And that women are dangerous.

 

[sorrell skye]

Unless JD is open to the truth that women and children possess innate autonomy, that women are not subordinate beings, that offspring (including himself) are not pawns to be used in a political end-game, that he's accountable for his actions and that no one else is to blame for his choices, even the best therapy would be useless and a waste of time.

IOW: Unless he's willing to abandon every one of the lies that he's been brought up to believe wherein males are all-powerful, there is no hope that he will ever evolve into a responsible, compassionate human being.

 

[sorrell skye]

They did that show Home Makeover, I think it is called, close to my home.

Many people I know participated in it. It is so phony that we were all upset by it. I imagine it was the same for the Duggars.

Anything that occurs before the cameras on a pseudo-reality show is suspect. These types of shows are NOT reality, anymore than the WWE bouts are reality - they're all scripted. Just because the cameras filmed JD allegedly 'repairing' the broken-down RV does NOT mean that he actually repaired it.

IMO, he only got a job with the FRC because of the TLC show, so the FRC thought it would be a good idea to bring him on board to enhance their standing with the fundie base.

 

[Donjeta]

I listened to some of his FRC soundclips and I'm not sure he ever was too serious about all that stuff either. He was on a radio show talking about gay marriage and all he said was basically repeat that this is an important issue and we should discuss and listen to the voters and it's is an important issue and there should be discussion and listen to the voters... He didn't really say much about what he thinks or why gay marriage would be evil, just reiterated that we should talk some more about it. He sounded just like a politician, talking importantly but saying very little of any consequence.


Sorry I have no idea where to locate a link so it's just MOO.

He probably liked himself some lesbian scenes in *advertiser censored* films so the anti gay agenda was a bit conflicted.

 

[sorrell skye]

I listened to some of his FRC soundclips and I'm not sure he ever was too serious about all that stuff either. He was on a radio show talking about gay marriage and all he said was basically repeat that this is an important issue and we should discuss and listen to the voters and it's is an important issue and there should be discussion and listen to the voters... He didn't really say much about what he thinks or why gay marriage would be evil, just reiterated that we should talk some more about it. He sounded just like a politician, talking importantly but saying very little of any consequence.


Sorry I have no idea where to locate a link so it's just MOO.

He probably liked himself some lesbian scenes in *advertiser censored* films so the anti gay agenda was a bit conflicted.

At about 2:50 in the following video, he states: "I believe that marriage is between ONE man and ONE woman - period."

That statement received thunderous applause.

[video=youtube;NAEpK0MIniI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAEpK0MIniI[/video]

 

[Donjeta]

Correction: marriage is between one man and one woman and all the *advertiser censored* stars that the man can bag.

 

[sorrell skye]

In the following video he refers to "natural marriage".

He urged the audience to go to the FRC website and look at "Marriage on Trial".

At about 1:50, he states: "I believe sincerely that the people of every state should remain free to uphold marriage as a union of ONE man and ONE woman."

I think it's apparent that's he's opposed to gay marriage.

[video=youtube;O9xi8P0tUZ0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9xi8P0tUZ0[/video]

 

[seattlechiquita]

Unless JD is open to the truth that women and children possess innate autonomy, that women are not subordinate beings, that offspring (including himself) are not pawns to be used in a political end-game, that he's accountable for his actions and that no one else is to blame for his choices, even the best therapy would be useless and a waste of time.

IOW: Unless he's willing to abandon every one of the lies that he's been brought up to believe wherein males are all-powerful, there is no hope that he will ever evolve into a responsible, compassionate human being.

I. Love. You. Indeed, for this dude to become a real man, he would have to divest himself from all the carpools he has been spoon fed through his life. Problem is, I don't think he is interested in it. This way, he is always on top -lol- always in control, beyond accountable. Comfy place to be.

 

[Donjeta]

He also said some lovely things about his wife Anna and their precious family... all the while he was ****ing *advertiser censored* stars.

MOO he has memorized a lot of talking points and knows exactly what he should say to get an applause from a fundie crowd.

 

[sorrell skye]

This actually made me gasp. This was a father's response to a crisis in his daughter's life?!? I'm completely unimpressed with the leadership of the men in this extended family.

I really try to understand these people, I really do, but it's like banging your head against a wall. It's futile.

JMO.

King David had an affair, Prince Josh allegedly had an affair. Why are the womenfolk raising such a stink?<insert sarcastic emoticon>

Regarding what the source added: "I just wish she could be left alone to figure out her own feelings on this matter."

I'm not convinced Anna knows how she feels - other than feeling understandably devastated. Beyond that, she's likely feeling the pressure of everything she's ever been taught: to forgive, to forget, to blame herself, and to at all times smile.

In my conversations with my own extended family members, King David's actions are often justified - even when he caused the death of Uriah on the battlefront. They tell me "God forgave him". In this day and age, he would have been charged with war crimes.

This is the legacy of bowing to authority without question.

I agree, Inthedetails, it's like banging your head against a wall.

Those who wish to justify heinous actions - even murder and infidelity - will always find an excuse. But it doesn't mean that those who have a true understanding of right and wrong must accept those excuses.