IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #54

[No it's not]

YW. As you mentioned, I think it's very possible there are more pics/videos from earlier that day. I downloaded Snapchat to play around with it, and as others have mentioned, you can create a Snapchat Story, add pics/videos to your story, share if you choose, and the story is viewable for 24 hours (unlike a snap which is a pic/video only viewable for 1-10 seconds). You can also set an option to save pics/videos to Memories on Snapchat and/or to your Camera Roll. If you save to Camera Roll you can look at pic from there and see the timestamp. You can also add a timestamp to a Snapchat pic using filters. Lots of options and settings.

Regarding Abby's cell, I guess we don't know for sure, but several references were made to the girls' phones (not just Libby's).

I see that transcript is from Feb 16, however, in a news report from Monday night, Feb 13, the reporter mentions the time stamp of 2:07. So it appears they had the time stamp the first night.

Monday, Feb 13 - WLFI Report - transcribed some excerpts starting at about :35 (Ref)

• Mike Patty: …Upset, confused, obviously very distraught. Just worried, all I want to do is have the girls get home safe.
• Anna Williams: Getting scared now.
• Reporter: Abigail’s mom, Anna Williams, has spent hours worrying, just hoping to hear her little girl is ok.
• Anna Williams: It’s getting cold, been out a long time, and don’t know what time they ate last.
• Reporter: The girls haven’t answered their phones since around the time they went missing.
• Mike Patty: Missing, abducted, we don’t know for sure. Cellphone has been pinging around town here, there’s a cell phone tower, but the ping was last noted about 5 or 6 hours ago, they say the phone’s now dead.
• Reporter: The last snapchat from one of the girls was from 2:07.
• Mike Patty: I saw a text where they got delivered but they never got read.
• Anna Williams: Very scary situation right now, and I just, I just want her home.
• Reporter: Now many are on an extensive search to find them...

Cell phone references:

• Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said crews began canvassing the area and tried pinging the girls' cell phones into the evening hours but had no success in finding them. The sheriff said they believed the girls' phones were either dead or turned off. (Ref)
• Reporter: The girls haven’t answered their phones since around the time they went missing. (Ref)

Thank you very much for the references. Good info here. Thank you also for explaining snapchat. I am only familiar with FB.

Strangely they were talking about the girls' phones, plural.

-Nin

 

[No it's not]

Just quoting cloudajo post which references both girl's phones a couple of times for those speculating whether A had a phone or not. This seems to prove she did indeed have a phone.

Ha, we had the same thought! Abby did have a snapchat account by the way. There are pics floating around on the net. However, since I cannot access snapchat, I cannot post any pics,links or sources.

All IMO

-Nin

 

[Peace777]

Somewhere in these 54 threads (it was a while ago) there was an exceptionally useful post by a member who does have a SAR dog and who does take part in SAR missions.
He/she explains in detail that having a SAR dog doesn't mean that said dog will simply lead you to a body just because it's in the vicinity. There are loads of variables. It's not an exact science, and these dogs - incredible as they are - are not robots that are guaranteed to find whatever it is they need to find.

Yes I understand that but it wouldn't have hurt to at least see if they could have found a scent JMO. As I seen a video that search dogs were brought in on the 14th, I think they were on RL's property. Will try and find the news report again. Found the news clip at 1:06-1:07 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_WNHtqEUBo

 

[Shiressleuth]

the sealed autopsy shows that both were "killed" on the 13th

I think you mean "the request to seal the autopsy" . None of us have seen the "sealed autopsy" except LE so we do not know the time or date of death. Is that what you meant or have you actually seen the autopsy report? Could you clarify for me please?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Yes I understand that but it wouldn't have hurt to at least see if they could have found a scent JMO. As I seen a video that search dogs were brought in on the 14th, I think they were at the cemetery with them. Will try and find the news report again.

Yes iirc the dogs arrived on the 14th but were not used because the girls were found almost as soon as the volunteer searchers began searching at noon.

 

[DeDee]

From Meriam-Webster's online Thesarus:

dump: to get rid of as useless or unwanted (dump the trash on the curb and go back inside)

Synonyms:
cashier, cast (off), chuck, deep-six, ditch, discard, eighty-six (or 86), exorcise (also exorcize), fling (off or away), jettison, junk, lay by, lose, pitch, reject, scrap, shed, shuck (off), slough (off) also sluff (off), throw away, throw out, toss, unload

Related Words:
abandon, abdicate, desert, forsake; dismiss, kick out; abolish, annihilate, eliminate, eradicate, expunge, exterminate, extinguish, extirpate, liquidate, remove, root (out), stamp (out), wipe out

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/dump

Not many words accurately describe such an act. I like "left" or "abandoned" better than "dumped", but "dumped" really does imply the right...feeling? to me. MOO

As common as the term may be, I refuse to use it. I requested folks on JonBenet's threads not to use the d word because she was 6yo and found in her own basement. Some members began using it more frequently, for whatever their reason. In this, as with other cases, I will use the more respectful word "placed".

 

[margarita25]

Random thought - sorry. I was just wondering if there was some gentler way of expressing victims bodies being taken and left somewhere rather than the term, "dumped." It always bothers me to read "his/her body was dumped..." Just seems like a poor word choice. Anyone have any ideas of another way that could be expressed?

"Disposed of...?" (Not great either...but I can't think of anything else right now...I do know what you mean, though. ..unfortunately it is what it is...the reality is some perps dump their victims like trash )

 

[WebSight]

Thank you very much for the references. Good info here. Thank you also for explaining snapchat. I am only familiar with FB.

Strangely they were talking about the girls' phones, plural.

-Nin

Regarding Snapchat, according to my teens because I wouldn't have any idea, if you take pictures using your phone camera you can also load them and send through the Snapchat app. It doesn't matter when those pictures were taken. The time stamp is from when they were loaded and then sent.

I bring this up because my daughter pointed out that the picture of Abby could have been taken earlier on the phone camera and sent at 2:07. We might be assuming that the timestamp on the SC photo places them on the bridge at that time but that might not be so.

Theoretically they may have crossed the bridge earlier than assumed (ex. 1:30) and hiked around the south side, sat somewhere and loaded the picture to Snapchat. They might have been getting ready to cross back over the bridge (back to the main entrance) when they encountered and filmed BG.

jmo and FFIW :fence:

 

[MistyWaters]

You may know an answer for this--the estimated time to deliver a dog specifically trained to a location. It isn't as easy as Pizza. Variables depend on other cases, the last use of the dogs, how far away, etc. I do see the quick recovery with that advantage. I can only guess people were posted at specific points after midnight and to 5 a.m..in case they appeared, like at an all-night gas station, trail heads, center square...

That makes sense.

It's puzzling why, ever since the early days of this case, a theory arises from time to time that the area where the bodies were found had already been searched prior to the discovery on Feb 14th, proving someone possibly moved the body during the previous evening.

Aside from it making no logical sense why a murder would relocate dead bodies to be quickly discovered, there's absolutely no evidence to support the theory let alone a good reason why the location had already been searched, and plenty to discount it.

Possibly then Why Wasn't it Searched is a second wave of the same theory. It's leaves me with the feeling that either LE or the family is being blamed for not immediately taking "appropriate" action so then it could've (in hindsight) been determined the bodies were indeed moved. If anyone here believes this to be true, please expand.





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[EmmaRose]

From Meriam-Webster's online Thesarus:

dump: to get rid of as useless or unwanted (dump the trash on the curb and go back inside)

Synonyms:
cashier, cast (off), chuck, deep-six, ditch, discard, eighty-six (or 86), exorcise (also exorcize), fling (off or away), jettison, junk, lay by, lose, pitch, reject, scrap, shed, shuck (off), slough (off) also sluff (off), throw away, throw out, toss, unload



Related Words:
abandon, abdicate, desert, forsake; dismiss, kick out; abolish, annihilate, eliminate, eradicate, expunge, exterminate, extinguish, extirpate, liquidate, remove, root (out), stamp (out), wipe out

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/dump

Not many words accurately describe such an act. I like "left" or "abandoned" better than "dumped", but "dumped" really does imply the right...feeling? to me. MOO

Wow!!!!!! Thank you, coastal

 

[No it's not]

I am a bit torn between the murders being specifically planned or just being planned in general and therefore opportunistic by nature. In other words, do you think the girls - or one of them - was being stalked? Or do you think the POI/BG was scouting for a victim/ victims in general and just happened to run into the girls?

-Nin

 

[Peace777]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kop2LjEGm_8&feature=youtu.be
Who is EW (News says "friend of AW)? He speaks from 1:45 -1:54 mark. An interesting to what a commenter left in the comments section as what they seem to hear. FWIW

 

[EmmaRose]

Thank you EmmaRose! Here's the link to the vid I watched. I'll say the vids imo It's not much other than someone parking and walking til you don't see the car.
https://youtu.be/h31qtZICEjE

Thanks, Lil! By the way, I love your posts. You have good responses!

 

[No it's not]

Regarding Snapchat, according to my teens because I wouldn't have any idea, if you take pictures using your phone camera you can also load them and send through the Snapchat app. It doesn't matter when those pictures were taken. The time stamp is from when they were loaded and then sent.

I bring this up because my daughter pointed out that the picture of Abby could have been taken earlier on the phone camera and sent at 2:07. We might be assuming that the timestamp on the SC photo places them on the bridge at that time but that might not be so.

Theoretically they may have crossed the bridge earlier than assumed (ex. 1:30) and hiked around the south side, sat somewhere and loaded the picture to Snapchat. They might have been getting ready to cross back over the bridge (back to the main entrance) when they encountered and filmed BG.

jmo and FFIW :fence:

Thanks! (It took me years to realize, that Spacebook and Snapshot was virtually non-existent, but that there was Myspace and Snapchat..;--)

-Nin

 

[Bird of Paradise]

That makes sense.

It's puzzling why, ever since the early days of this case, a theory arises from time to time that the area where the bodies were found had already been searched prior to the discovery on Feb 14th, proving someone possibly moved the body during the previous evening.

Aside from it making no logical sense why a murder would relocate dead bodies to be quickly discovered, there's absolutely no evidence to support the theory let alone a good reason why the location had already been searched, and plenty to discount it.

Possibly then Why Wasn't it Searched is a second wave of the same theory. It's leaves me with the feeling that either LE or the family is being blamed for not immediately taking "appropriate" action so then it could've (in hindsight) been determined the bodies were indeed moved. If anyone here believes this to be true, please expand.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is why I posted RL's comment a couple of pages back. Maybe some feel all the searchers had to do was walk around a bit and they would have been found--I don't know. After watching videos of the area, I can't imagine walking through the land and the downed tree limbs and hope to be constructive with a search. MOO

"For them to get from there to all the way here with that rough territory they had to walk, you couldn’t carry them in a million years or drag them or drop them off,” said Logan. “They had to walk.”

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/l...rls-were-found

 

[SomeoneElse333]

"Disposed of...?" (Not great either...but I can't think of anything else right now...I do know what you mean, though. ..unfortunately it is what it is...the reality is some perps dump their victims like trash )

Thank you to the poster who raised this point. I cringe a bit when I read the word "dump." On one hand, a semantic issue like that is probably noise to the families of murder victims. On the other hand, our care over things like semantics implies respect and gentleness. Sometimes the smallest gestures can help or hurt someone.

[emoji169]

 

[Lilowlet]

I am a bit torn between the murders being specifically planned or just being planned in general and therefore opportunistic by nature. In other words, do you think the girls - or one of them - was being stalked? Or do you think the POI/BG was scouting for a victim/ victims in general and just happened to run into the girls?

-Nin

I'm torn as well. But for now I'm going with both maybe planned in an opportunistic nature, as in BG/poi planned on harming someone that day, I speculate he ahead of time, be it that day or days/weeks before had been to that area had an idea of where he'd do his heinous crimes maybe. I can't decide if he stalked one or not, if think if it were sm stalking someone would have figured him out by now, but you never know because of all the tech savvy people now days. Imo cause I have no clue how easy it'd be to hide on the internet? Otherwise, not knowing cod it's hard for me personally to figure out if his victim type was random or not. Idk imo always. Like your post, good questions.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

I am a bit torn between the murders being specifically planned or just being planned in general and therefore opportunistic by nature. In other words, do you think the girls - or one of them - was being stalked? Or do you think the POI/BG was scouting for a victim/ victims in general and just happened to run into the girls?

MOO-I do not believe he just happened in the area to scout victims. I think they were targeted.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Do you have a link to the timing of the searching? Also, how do you know some stayed searching thru the night? Do you know who searched thru the night? I have not heard that before.

For organized searches on the 13th the information we have comes from the scanner thread, post #2.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...lliams-Scanner-Thread&p=13258687#post13258687

 

[Lilowlet]

Thanks, Lil! By the way, I love your posts. You have good responses!

Aw 🤗 I love yours too!