CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #5

[Jennifer17]

Thank you very much. Very insightful. I am really hoping to explore both sides of this before fully pointing the finger at what seems obvious. I do wonder if a lot of what we find to be odd, insulting, suspicious, is because of his legal guidance. What do you think about the search warrant being executed today? Is that standard for a spouse or significant other of a missing person? Would the attorney likely advise PF and his family to not voluntarily allow the search?

BBM. To me, that would be pointless, when they can and did get a warrant.

 

[PrairieWind]

Thank you very much. Very insightful. I am really hoping to explore both sides of this before fully pointing the finger at what seems obvious. I do wonder if a lot of what we find to be odd, insulting, suspicious, is because of his legal guidance. What do you think about the search warrant being executed today? Is that standard for a spouse or significant other of a missing person? Would the attorney likely advise PF and his family to not voluntarily allow the search?

Again, I think it would largely depend on my client's wishes. But I would probably advise to consent to a search of the home if the police ask. I'm not sure that they did here though. One reason i would advise that, is because eventually LE is going to get a warrant anyway. Now, it isn't all that unusual for LE to just get a warrant INSTEAD of asking for consent first. And when they serve it, yes they will cut locks, etc. They do that so that they can control the search. If they search based upon consent, that consent can be revoked, or limited. Or maybe there is later confusion about what the consent was for, and then evidence collected could be excluded. A warrant avoids all that.

 

[MtBab]

I really would still like to have a tech expert chime in about pings, VPNs, text spoofing, and remotely accessing a phone (turning it on from another location)....

Not an expert but:

triangulation - meaning the device was in the area of cell towers (within a certain radius)

ping - a remote ping is sent to the device to locate it.

 

[Mom24]

I have a question about that too. When I first started reading about the case it was reported by the Woodland Park police Commander that they did not know whether the phone ping was a "false ping" or whether it really pinged in that location. What exactly is a false ping and how does it occur? Did they ever verify that it was a true ping? I haven't read it anywhere but I may have missed it. How do they differentiate between the two? It would be helpful if we knew for sure that there was no doubt that this was a true indicator of where the phone was located at the time. Otherwise we are spending time trying to figure out why the phone would be in that area when in fact it was not. Imo

I went back and re-read the message and ping issue. LE said that on the 25th her place of employment received a text message from her and that at some point on the 25th the phone had pinged in Idaho. They didn't say the message and the ping had happened at the same time. Then they went on to say it may have been a false ping. "Nov. 25 is also the day Kelsey’s employer, a flight training school in Pueblo, received a text from her phone saying she wouldn’t be at work the following week, DeYoung said. Nov. 25 is also the day Kelsey’s phone gave a location near Gooding, Idaho, around 5:13 p.m" Missing Colorado Mom Left Behind Baby Daughter and Haunting Questions: ‘Someone Knows Where She’s At’

"Police in Woodland Park said that Berreth’s phone pinged near Gooding, Idaho sometime on November 25.
'It could just be a false ping, or it could be the actual last location for the activity of that phone,' Woodland Park police Commander Chris Adams told "
Pasco relatives pray for miracle as search continues for missing Colorado mother

"On November 25th, she texted her employer, Doss Aviation and told them she was taking time off. On the same day, her phone was pinged in Gooding, Idaho"
Woodland Park Police hold news conference about missing woman

I had assumed that text to her employer had been tracked to Gooding ID, but it appears that the text and the phone ping happened at different times. It would be great to know when the text was received.

 

[katie565]

So basically everything his attorney is doing, and what we are seeing, would be pretty normal and standard? Do you typically think that someone innocent would be following the same patterns to protect themselves? Assuming that the spouse or significant other is usually prime suspect, is this behavior unusual?

The role of a criminal defense attorney would be to protect his rights and prevent him from incriminating himself in a crime. The defense attorney is not our enemy. The better job he does, the more likely the conviction will hold. We want this even though we hate this

 

[BRRI]

I think people are angry at him, not the attorney.

If he’s guilty of anything he’s certainly making the right decision by refusing to speak to LE in any way. I do agree that every lawyer I know would have also advised me not to speak to the police, but if my loving GF and mother of my child was missing I would have immediately reported her missing and would be cooperating fully, all the while I would be desperately pleading with the public for help in finding her.

But (devil’s advocate here) what if they had just broken up a day before, he was the last to see her and talk to her...he knew how that would look. I’d bet if that happened, there were angry texts, or emails, which would make things look worse. If he didn’t do this, I’m thinking he’s really nervous about being wrongly accused and is therefore following attorney advice.

 

[PommyMommy]

Recall that PF received a text message from KB on 11/25 that explained her absence, the same day she texted her work that she would be gone and did not text her Mom or anyone else (and her phone pinged in Idaho). See Bold. Am being more than a tad sarcastic.

Perhaps if a cover-up, the cover-up is too complicated. May take time to figure out. One has to wonder if PK is the culprit, has he been helped by anyone in his family?

RedBBM
I don't recall that at all. PF received a text message from Kelsey's phone. We don't know that it explained her absence - LE has not released the content of the message.

We don't know that she texted her work. We know that a text was sent to Kelsey's employer from her phone.

I assume you mean PF, and it's possible he had help. I have no idea.
MOO

 

[BRRI]

BBM. To me, that would be pointless, when they can and did get a warrant.

It buys time.

 

[klind55]

With PF being a cattle rancher who in the world are taking care of his cattle, horses and other animals(dogs)? Police are searching his property which could last for days so are they allowing hired help on the property to tend to the ranch? How does this work?

 

[BRRI]

Not an expert but:

triangulation - meaning the device was in the area of cell towers (within a certain radius)

ping - a remote ping is sent to the device to locate it.

So I wonder then, if on WiFi and VPN without cell service (or in airplane mode on VPN), if the ping would report the IP address and not physical location of the phone?

 

[MtBab]

Has anyone asked about her use of credit cards (during the time she’s gone missing)?

 

[Jennifer17]

With PF being a cattle rancher who in the world are taking care of his cattle, horses and other animals(dogs)? Police are searching his property which could last for days so are they allowing hired help on the property to tend to the ranch? How does this work?

He could go back and feed his cattle and horses if they need feeding. I don't think that he has been banned from the property, has he?

 

[Liadan]

I for one, won’t regret calling out the bizarre and incriminating behavior from PF here.

Normal people file police reports when their fiancé has gone off the grid for over a week, especially with a baby involved.

When a police report is filed, normal people make an effort to help locate the missing person.

If one is unwilling or unable to speak to the media, normal people appoint someone to speak for them, as publicity can help to locate the missing.

Normal people do not go radio silent when a loved one is missing.

No, we don’t know for sure that a crime has been committed, but it sure as hell looks that way.

I know where I’m looking.

THANK YOU, your summation of this situation is on point. No lawyer is going to stop a fiancee frantically searching or stop the publicity - they merely advise on the ways to do it. Absence of response is resounding and deafening.

 

[MsBetsy]

I went back and re-read the message and ping issue. LE said that on the 25th her place of employment received a text message from her and that at some point on the 25th the phone had pinged in Idaho. They didn't say the message and the ping had happened at the same time. Then they went on to say it may have been a false ping. "Nov. 25 is also the day Kelsey’s employer, a flight training school in Pueblo, received a text from her phone saying she wouldn’t be at work the following week, DeYoung said. Nov. 25 is also the day Kelsey’s phone gave a location near Gooding, Idaho, around 5:13 p.m" Missing Colorado Mom Left Behind Baby Daughter and Haunting Questions: ‘Someone Knows Where She’s At’

"Police in Woodland Park said that Berreth’s phone pinged near Gooding, Idaho sometime on November 25.
'It could just be a false ping, or it could be the actual last location for the activity of that phone,' Woodland Park police Commander Chris Adams told "
Pasco relatives pray for miracle as search continues for missing Colorado mother

"On November 25th, she texted her employer, Doss Aviation and told them she was taking time off. On the same day, her phone was pinged in Gooding, Idaho"
Woodland Park Police hold news conference about missing woman

I had assumed that text to her employer had been tracked to Gooding ID, but it appears that the text and the phone ping happened at different times. It would be great to know when the text was received.

Thank you. Interesting. It seems a bit of a mystery. I wonder if they will be able to get information about any travelling he did. And if he didn't, it would seem as if she herself was in that area at that time. Its very strange.

 

[Jennifer17]

Has anyone asked about her use of credit cards (during the time she’s gone missing)?

I am pretty sure that her bank accounts and credit card use would have been looked at.

 

[PrairieWind]

Has anyone asked about her use of credit cards (during the time she’s gone missing)?

Thats a good point. I don't think anything has been said about it. Certainly that would be something that LE would quickly get on. That they have not said anything could mean there is no activity, or they are keeping it quiet for now for some reason.

 

[Charlot123]

But (devil’s advocate here) what if they had just broken up a day before, he was the last to see her and talk to her...he knew how that would look. I’d bet if that happened, there were angry texts, or emails, which would make things look worse. If he didn’t do this, I’m thinking he’s really nervous about being wrongly accused and is therefore following attorney advice.

We don’t know much about PF. If he had ever been under investigation or in a juvenile facility when young, mistrust of the police is to be predicted, and even expected. Even with relatives in the police.

 

[MassGuy]

With PF being a cattle rancher who in the world are taking care of his cattle, horses and other animals(dogs)? Police are searching his property which could last for days so are they allowing hired help on the property to tend to the ranch? How does this work?

They’re not going to prevent him from feeding his animals.

Some sort of arrangement would exist.

 

[Charlot123]

They’re not going to prevent him from feeding his animals.

Some sort of arrangement would exist.

Some animals, pigs especially, would eat practically anything.

 

[Jennifer17]

Thats a good point. I don't think anything has been said about it. Certainly that would be something that LE would quickly get on. That they have not said anything could mean there is no activity, or they are keeping it quiet for now for some reason.

I think that that is one of the criteria for declaring someone missing. No electronic use and no banking activity.