CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

[Hatch]

I'd love to know if PF brought up the subject of luring KB out late that night to tend to cattle during a "fireside chat" with KK. I just find it very strange that KB was out there so late at night with PF and baby K. What lie did he tell her?

well his heifers could have been calving, or maybe aborting which is common when they eat pine needles ( which is like cow candy) they get pine needle fever and abort their calves. Sometimes you can inject them with meds to stop the abort process sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. My understanding his herd were over 100 miles from his home and in rugged territory that would take a while. Adding cattle are easier to work and deal with at night they are calmer. But I do think it entered his mind to do his deed that night , but something stopped him.
In calving season it is not uncommon to be up all night.
Calves are your pay check. Fall is when most of them get pine needle fever according to my source.

 

[susiQ]

well his heifers could have been calving, or maybe aborting which is common when they eat pine needles ( which is like cow candy) they get pine needle fever and abort their calves. Sometimes you can inject them with meds to stop the abort process sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. My understanding his herd were over 100 miles from his home and in rugged territory that would take a while. Adding cattle are easier to work and deal with at night they are calmer. But I do think it entered his mind to do his deed that night , but something stopped him.
In calving season it is not uncommon to be up all night.
Calves are your pay check. Fall is when most of them get pine needle fever according to my source.

Thanks for the tutorial, Hatch! The things I learn here
I still question why would he take KB? Why not one of his friends, like the ones at the dump? Or better yet, RS, his very "best" friend. It makes me so sad when I think of KB's last hours. How tired she must have felt, yet still trying to help that despicable creature

 

[GordianKnot]

Thanks for the tutorial, Hatch! The things I learn here
I still question why would he take KB? Why not one of his friends, like the ones at the dump? Or better yet, RS, his very "best" friend. It makes me so sad when I think of KB's last hours. How tired she must have felt, yet still trying to help that despicable creature

I hadn't thought of that particular angle until you mentioned KB's almost certain fatigue after having been there at the ranch until, what was it, around 4 a.m.? It's possible that PF called her out and kept her up traipsing around out there until the wee hours to ensure that she was exhausted the next day.

That way, she'd be less likely to be able to fight back due to feeling physically sluggish.

Granted, this is PF we're talking about here, so I don't know that he would be capable of that level of pre-planning.

In fact, I think it's unlikely.

PF puts the mo in moron.

JMO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

well his heifers could have been calving, or maybe aborting which is common when they eat pine needles ( which is like cow candy) they get pine needle fever and abort their calves. Sometimes you can inject them with meds to stop the abort process sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. My understanding his herd were over 100 miles from his home and in rugged territory that would take a while. Adding cattle are easier to work and deal with at night they are calmer. But I do think it entered his mind to do his deed that night , but something stopped him.
In calving season it is not uncommon to be up all night.
Calves are your pay check. Fall is when most of them get pine needle fever according to my source.

bbm
Very interesting! (not the bbm )
He was a devilish coward at least since Sept and he remained being a devilish coward until noon on Nov 22nd. When KB gruesome died under his hands, he probably had thought of all sorts of "accidents" and murder, that are conceivable. IMO
ETA: His last thought was perhaps, to kill a completely exhausted young woman, mother of his little child, during her sleep.

 

[WildWest]

Close to the same here! Surprised FBI & other agencies aren't at my door yet!

Speaking of "ungodly searches"...

If PF & KK did indeed burn KB's body, her skin, hair, nails, fat (not that she had much on her), muscles, connective tissues, bodily fluids, and the like, would have burnt up within roughly about an hour, give or take. This would leave only bones/teeth. The largest of these bones, in length, would have been the arm & leg bones. The stronest being the femur, or thigh bone; often being compared to the strength of concrete!

Now given KB's small frame, would it be possible for PF to use a reciprocating saw to go through her bones? If this is true, then the "boiling pot of lye" isn't as far fetched as I once thought! And turning KB, into the consistency of mineral oil is very plausible.

If WE can find this stuff online via simple searches ( yes most of us are pretty well versed at Google), why can't someone who isn't?

MOO IMHO

I agree. Sorry WS's for the graphic response. I worked at an animal shelter with a crematory onsite. From what I know there (no expert by any means) it takes a lot more than pouring gas into a water trough to get rid of anything but the hair and liquids. I have a feeling he did a half assed job on the burning like the rest of his mamma mooching-just enough gigs to get by loser life. What a terrible thing he did ruining so many lives beyond taking KB's and their daughters mother from her.

 

[pcrum12]

My point of reference in fires such as these is from a local murder of a 4 year old foster child by his foster parents and a second female. They tried to incinerate him in an outdoor fireplace situation and no matter what they did, they couldn't keep the fire hot enough, long enough. When he was finally found, quite a bit was left to their horror. I am SO hoping this is the case here.
These were 3 similarly "special" idiots as well with the foster couple getting life, the second woman getting off on a plea agreement.

Marcus Faizal? Happened right in my neighborhood. I helped search the park.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

* wrong

 

[pcrum12]

@MassGuy, want more similarities? After these idiots found too many remains of the child, they bagged them up and dropped them in the river from a high bridge.
This case haunts me and KBs gets way too close to it....enough to make me have to step away quite a bit. These cases possess a certain kind of evil that goes beyond comprehension and always seem to involve truly innocent people. IMHO

And..... the 2nd woman got a plea deal!!!!! Never agreed with it.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I actually meant the bags of waste from the condo. I think her testimony is that they were all burned but I am not 100% clear on that, since the testimony about the fire focuses on the tote.

The cleaning items, curtains, tooth, toys, Bible etc. were all disposed of, and presumably put in the trash bags she moved in the car back to the Franch to be burned. She stopped at Sonic on the way after cleaning, and I scoured the documents for mention of some disposal there. But I haven’t found anything in media or the legal documents that clearly show disposal there. Seems it was all burned later at the Franch.

 

[steeltowngirl]

So, you are saying illegal burning isn't a crime? Is knowing a human body is burning on your property a crime?

I'm pretty confident SF's attorney is knowledgeable about Colorado law.<modsnip>

Circling back to your earlier point. Dan May wanted SF on the stand to testify about the burning, PF’s whereabouts, the phone call, and more. SF’s attorney argued that it was an “unethical fishing expedition”. SF’s attorney was advised of the purpose of calling her to the stand, and it wasn’t to discuss the open burn law. It was to clarify and corroborate details provided by KK that were presented as evidence against PF to take him to trial for murder. The judge ruled that SF did not have to testify at the prelim hearing. Even without her testimony, there was enough evidence presented at the prelim to move forward to trial.

 

[1mtroyal]

I agree. Sorry WS's for the graphic response. I worked at an animal shelter with a crematory onsite. From what I know there (no expert by any means) it takes a lot more than pouring gas into a water trough to get rid of anything but the hair and liquids. I have a feeling he did a half assed job on the burning like the rest of his mamma mooching-just enough gigs to get by loser life. What a terrible thing he did ruining so many lives beyond taking KB's and their daughters mother from her.

PF also burned a bunch of wood. Wood leaves ashes. PF would have had to have thrown water on the ashes if he moved them within a few hours. The nurse may not have been around when he moved them.

 

[ab01]

Circling back to your earlier point. Dan May wanted SF on the stand to testify about the burning, PF’s whereabouts, the phone call, and more. SF’s attorney argued that it was an “unethical fishing expedition”. SF’s attorney was advised of the purpose of calling her to the stand, and it wasn’t to discuss the open burn law. It was to clarify and corroborate details provided by KK that were presented as evidence against PF to take him to trial for murder. The judge ruled that SF did not have to testify at the prelim hearing. Even without her testimony, there was enough evidence presented at the prelim to move forward to trial.

Yep I think the stakes are a bit higher than just an open burn law. I think SF was more concerned with not implicating her son further. And or implicating herself in a murder and or abuse of a corpse. Don’t you worry ole SF will have her time to stand over a proverbial open fire with DA May throwing the fuel on it. And that time will be at trial moo

 

[Julia966]

SF knows that baby K was with PF exclusively from Nov. 22 on. She knows that there was a fire on her property on Nov. 24. She also knows that PF was late for dinner on Nov. 22 and arrived with baby K but not KB. Lastly, she is one of many who did not pick up the phone and call LE, which may be one of those immoral but not illegal things. SF has information. But I'm not seeing that she has committed or participated in an actual crime. IANAL, but I think she can be called to testify, and held in contempt of court if she fails to do so, or charged with perjury if she lies. And I really don't think the prosecution needs her testimony, so I think they will be weighing whether it is worth the aggravation to call her. MOO

Yup, I agree with all of what you say. I too doubt that she participated in the murder or the fire/moving the body (if I implied that I did, I mis-posted). But there is something that she and her lawyer believes will incriminate her, not PF, but her, and I'm really curious what it is. It may wind up being more trouble than it's worth to call her to the stand and then charge her with contempt when she refuses to testify, as you say. So, we'll probably never know.

 

[Julia966]

There’s a lot of evidence in this case in moo, especially as far as the tight timeline of KB actual murder.

Also I’m not sure you will find the same inept jury as the Anthony case if you tried a million times....moo

I’m not nervous at all about this case, PF all but painted a picture of KBs murder by all the dumb things he did.

I'm a little nervous. If jurors take an instant distrust/dislike to KK and find her not credible, if KB's body is not found, I can see there being an potential problem. There's pings and video of him driving around, and nonchalant behavior, but no strong motive...I could see issues. 'Course, there was less evidence on Scott Peterson and look where he is.

 

[ab01]

I'm a little nervous. If jurors take an instant distrust/dislike to KK and find her not credible, if KB's body is not found, I can see there being an potential problem. There's pings and video of him driving around, and nonchalant behavior, but no strong motive...I could see issues. 'Course, there was less evidence on Scott Peterson and look where he is.

I definitely understand why some are nervous, no body yet etc.

But there is absolutely no reason to be in this case.


The jury would have to actually hate KK so much that they are willing to completely overlook PFs actions and lies on the day of KBs murder.

They will absolutely hate kk.....but they will hate PF much more!

Moo

 

[ab01]

PF body language and facial expressions will not play well with a jury.

He is a hostile defendant and I surmise that the jury will read him like a book!
Moo

 

[susiQ]

I'm a little nervous. If jurors take an instant distrust/dislike to KK and find her not credible, if KB's body is not found, I can see there being an potential problem. There's pings and video of him driving around, and nonchalant behavior, but no strong motive...I could see issues. 'Course, there was less evidence on Scott Peterson and look where he is.

I understand how you're feeling. It just comes "over" me too sometimes but @ab01 is absolutely right. They'll hate KK, and even distrust some of her testimony, but if they focus on the evidence presented, they should be able to see unequivocally who committed the actual murder. When they hear how he told lies about a lovely young woman to set up his "alibi", his collusion with KK in planning KB's murder and how she still cared enough about him to help with the cattle and pick up meds in the wee hours of the night for his tummy ache, and then burn her remains with KK at his side, they will absolutely hate/despise him. I also remind myself, the evidence we've seen is merely a sampling of what the DA has on him. There were 3300 pages of discovery.

Personally, I can't wait for PF's attorney to shred KK's character on the stand, but I doubt it will sway a jury to discount the mountain of evidence against him. And, since the preliminary hearing, I can't wait to see SF called to the stand! I'd like to know what she's hiding.

What makes me smile right now is knowing that baby K is in the loving arms of her grandparents, safely FAR away from the monsters that wanted to steal her.

 

[Noharg]

I'd love to know if PF brought up the subject of luring KB out late that night to tend to cattle during a "fireside chat" with KK. I just find it very strange that KB was out there so late at night with PF and baby K. What lie did he tell her?

Yes, I never have understood this. Is night watch typical in ranching?

 

[ab01]

Yes, I never have understood this. Is night watch typical in ranching?

Ranching is a very demanding business, all hours of the day issues can a rise that requires ones attention. With that said I would not be surprised to find that KB and baby K going out there that late at night would be highly unusual for their normal routine. MOO

I do wonder if for whatever reason, maybe PF couldn't get KB to leave baby K alone in the car.....MOO

 

[Hatch]

Thanks for the tutorial, Hatch! The things I learn here
I still question why would he take KB? Why not one of his friends, like the ones at the dump? Or better yet, RS, his very "best" friend. It makes me so sad when I think of KB's last hours. How tired she must have felt, yet still trying to help that despicable creature

It is a common thing in my area for the gals to want to go check cattle with the guys, sometimes it is the only time you have to visit and talk. IMO Kelsey most likely wanted to go, the baby could sleep in her car seat. I don't find it odd at all that she went with him. KB was only 26 you can get by on just a few hours when you are younger.
I think why we want to find it odd is because what happened the next day to KB. CB stated KB never mentioned they were breaking up, I think KB would have told her Mom, unless CB testifies differently I think checking cattle at night is something KB probably did often with PF, unless the next day was a work day.