Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #117

[stattlich1]

musings....

I don't think the killer prearranged a meetup with the girls. I DO think, however, that he knew they would be there...either through hearsay, social media, or an overheard conversation. The time window to make contact, then subdue them both (not sure how this was done, still can't believe they didn't scream like a son of) get down the hill, across the drive, down the next hill, across the flat, across the creek, and up that steep embankment, to the murder site, and commit the murder.....it's just surreal that all happened in such a short amount of time, and neither of the girls screamed, then make an escape, presumably wet, carrying all implements with him, totally undetected?

All of that, in and of itself, leads me to believe there was another individual involved.

BTW, a good search team, man or woman, with trained dog, could have scented on the girls trail that night and led the searcher to those girls' bodies within less than hour.

Who called off the search that night again?

Anyway, so, the killer PLANTS DNA and or other items/artifacts, at the scene, that pegs OBG, or at minimum, sends LE down the wrong path for 2 years. Amazin' how crafty that would be, eh?

Almost like somebody knew what they were doing.

I'm thinking someone like a lawyer, or judge, or teacher, or scout leader, or law enforcement official, or preacher, or local boy that made it big in college, you know, somebody that would cause a person to say "he's always such a nice guy, I would have NEVER thought THIS about him"

MOO

 

[BradB]

We dont know the extent of the video either. I'm assuming they felt something off about the guy so she busted out the phone and started to sneak record but these are still only assumptions. You're right about the time frame too. There had to have been a good volume of communication before the inevitable.

 

[taximama24]

I think we all change our minds daily. One of us will be right somewhere with all the different scenarios presented. Don't forget we are all filling in gaps and don't have the info LE have. Therefore speculation will be the only thing we have. Speculation leads us all down various rabbit holes for which I think we can be forgiven most the time.

BBM...and also don't forget we can only speculate so far on this thread without violating TOS. There are a lot of rocks we have to leave unturned that statistics alone would tell us are likely under which the ultimate outcome of this case lies.

 

[taximama24]

I stumbled upon this article today that I hadn't seen before. It left me with two thoughts. 1. All the talk of the family leaving before the April PC was not true, the Patty's were there as was Libby's mom. 2. The pic of Libby's mom, does that look like shock from the turn in the investigation on her face, or shock from recognition?
Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

 

[cody22]

So who would have known that both properties were empty that day?

Find that out and maybe find the killer.
JMO.

This is good thinking.....moo

 

[margarita25]

The fact that in spite of sketches, witnesses, video, audio and POSSIBLE DNA this killer has been free this long seems to indicate that this was well planned out. Rsbm

Here’s what I think @Foxfire would say about this imo:

There’s a reason why he’s gotten away with his past crimes for so long...

There’s a reason why SKs do certain things that they do...

In other words, I think @Foxfire might have agreed about “well planned out”.

He also says they go where they know potential victims may be...

Did he know school would be out that day? I’m not sure if this is a coincidence or not. If I had to guess I’d say he didn’t know, but idk, jmo.

 

[Ozoner]

Only positive I take away is if it was random the guy isnt the brightest bulb in the room then. Something isnt all there so there is a high, very high probability he puts himself in risky situations which makes it more likely to face an earlier demise or loss of freedom.

Psychopaths often put themselves in risky situations. For some offenders, the possibility of getting caught is part of the thrill. Some of them just don't seem to fear getting caught. They take it for granted that they're smarter than LE.
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In my area, back in the 80s, there was a guy named Ronald Bailey who abducted, sexually assaulted, and murdered two teenage boys (separately). At one point Bailey was carrying around one of the boys, who was still alive, in a duffel bag. He even stopped to talk to a couple of people while he had the boy in the duffel bag. I think he might have asked them for directions to the spot where he later sodomized and strangled the boy. BG's nonchalance in the video reminds me of Bailey (who was in his mid twenties and had a long history of sexually assaulting younger boys).

Here’s what I think @Foxfire would say about this imo:

There’s a reason why he’s gotten away with his past crimes for so long...

There’s a reason why SKs do certain things that they do...

In other words, I think @Foxfire might have agreed about “well planned out”.

He also says they go where they know potential victims may be...

Did he know school would be out that day? I’m not sure if this is a coincidence or not. If I had to guess I’d say he didn’t know, but idk, jmo.

I don't know whether he knew school would be out, but wouldn't high school have been just about done for the day anyway? The bridge area was probably a popular after-school hang-out spot.

 

[BNA]

Snowbird
Gone for the winter.

That seems like a large property. Hard to believe that nobody was at least checking up on it regularly, if not actually "house sitting."

 

[Ozoner]

@BNA
I live in Michigan. We have quite a few snowbirds here, and it isn't unusual for properties to sit vacant through the winter with little or no oversight. (I've known two different people whose houses were badly damaged because pipes burst during the winter and the damage wasn't discovered till spring.)

 

[BNA]

"you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy"

To what strategy does the man who made this comment refer?

What are "investigative strategies" and what does it mean to move to a "different" one?

hmmmmmmm

I've also pondered that wording. I have wondered about the very different meanings of two words: tactic vs. strategy, in relation to what DC said. Did they really change strategies or did they, in fact, change tactics? IOW, it seemed like more gobbledygook to me from the moment it was said.

 

[BNA]

@BNA
I live in Michigan. We have quite a few snowbirds here, and it isn't unusual for properties to sit vacant through the winter with little or no oversight. (I've known two different people whose houses were badly damaged because pipes burst during the winter and the damage wasn't discovered till spring.)

Understood. Yet, seems unwise for the very type of reason you specify here.

 

[stattlich1]

I've also pondered that wording. I have wondered about the very different meanings of two words: tactic vs. strategy, in relation to what DC said. Did they really change strategies or did they, in fact, change tactics? IOW, it seemed like more gobbledygook to me from the moment it was said.

Well you see, I think what he meant was this....that they have ceased going down the original path of investigation, focusing on that first sketch guy, and are now retracing all the steps, down the path leading to conviction of the second sketch guy.....you see, I think the killer planted DNA evidence not his own, that led LE down the original path.

 

[Righttable]

It's just one of those things that defies all odds especially with the technology today. Thousands and thousands of tips and nothing. One would assume if it was prearranged there would be something connecting the perp to them through phone messages or computer or whatever. It appears there just isnt. So we are all left with confusion. I cant blame LE for being confused. I waver back and forth a lot about what actually went down. I thought it was targeted for a long time but it's just too reckless. You don't need to go there especially during the day to attack girls or women. You can pick up hookers anywhere and anybody you want online. I lean towards them getting into it with the perp or them witnessing something they shouldn't have.

I also think its possible the perp had anger issues and snapped, and that this wasn’t a pre-planned crime.

Another possibility- if he is local and he did take issue with one of the girls/a family member, he might have been out on the trails that day for other reasons/ saw them being dropped off and took his opportunity. Targeted doesn’t always mean pre-planned.

 

[TL4S]

Are you thinking that due to the fact that there were two victims? I think going after two victims was a matter of necessity. This guy was too much of a coward to have tried snatching a girl off the street, in front of her house, let's say. His cowardice compelled him to troll for victims in a remote area, where no one was around besides him and his victims and where he could control all aspects of his crime. What were his chances of finding a young female victim alone near the Monon High Bridge? Odds are one of the girls was his "type" and the other was collateral damage. I also think this guy is afraid of adult women, so for him going after two teen girls was a no-brainer if the alternative was to go after a lone adult female. Even with a gun, he couldn't have handled a grown woman.

I also lean towards this idea that one of the girls was his objective, while the other was simply something to get out of his way. And if it truly was "about power" to him, maybe herding two girls around added to his feeling of authority over them. Using "guys" in his speech, if it indicates anything at all, could possibly indicate his sense of (or portrayal of) easy control over the situation.

 

[Ozoner]

I also lean towards this idea that one of the girls was his objective, while the other was simply something to get out of his way. And if it truly was "about power" to him, maybe herding two girls around added to his feeling of authority over them. Using "guys" in his speech, if it indicates anything at all, could possibly indicate his sense of (or portrayal of) easy control over the situation.

BBM
I agree; John Douglas might have read too much into the use of "guys." Douglas is a competent profiler, to be sure, but he's no spring chicken; he might not realize how pervasive the term "guys" is among younger people.
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I wouldn't be surprised, though, if BG turns out to be some kind of youth pastor, youth group leader, or camp counselor. It isn't unusual for predators to volunteer for such roles.
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I wish Robert Ressler were still alive! I've read some of his books; his intuition was second to none. I think he'd have collared BG by now.

 

[TL4S]

I've always found it curious that LE chose to use the phrase "investigative strategy" when speaking directly to BG in the PC. That is not layman's speak, the large majority of us do not distinguish the various components that make up the whole conglomerate of LE's work on the case. The more likely phrase to ring on the community's ears would have been to leave it at shift gears, or to say shift gears in our investigation. IMO, LE was speaking to a well versed adult. I think BG is someone who to the outside world has a reason to stay well informed on the investigation and doesn't perk anyone's ears, but LE knows his true motive is to know how close they are to exposing him.



Not that DC is not a nice guy to check on her or that KG doesn't deserve an internship (all of which could be talked about on the phone) but another reason DC might stop by physically is to send a message to BG, who may have ties to KG. It could be that they feel without an arrest BG is settling comfortably into having gotten away with murder, and by showing up at her house they may hope to rattle him out of it again by their mere presence, or cause him to wonder incessantly about whether anything has changed, and see how he reacts.

I think possibly the FBI profile, or some other evidence, says maybe he's the type to follow the investigation. Personally, I can't imagine BG not following to some extent, purely out of the want to know if they're getting closer. Using more official language tells me they think he's intelligent enough, and views himself informed enough, to feed into his need. Then, bam, they shut up and starve him out for almost 6 months. JMO.

And as for DC visiting...maybe it's to let BG know KG is being looked out for by the law?

 

[Falling Down]

Here’s what I think @Foxfire would say about this imo:

There’s a reason why he’s gotten away with his past crimes for so long...

There’s a reason why SKs do certain things that they do...

In other words, I think @Foxfire might have agreed about “well planned out”.

He also says they go where they know potential victims may be...

Did he know school would be out that day? I’m not sure if this is a coincidence or not. If I had to guess I’d say he didn’t know, but idk, jmo.

I think he knew school was out, and knew juveniles hung out around the bridge w/o adults around.

I think he picked the time of year, too. Just a hunch but I've thought that since early on in the case.

I get my radar up around this time of year, when the leaves are on the ground.

JMO

 

[Torch Carrier]

I stumbled upon this article today that I hadn't seen before. It left me with two thoughts. 1. All the talk of the family leaving before the April PC was not true, the Patty's were there as was Libby's mom. 2. The pic of Libby's mom, does that look like shock from the turn in the investigation on her face, or shock from recognition?
Outline - Read & annotate without distractions

WOW! The article you linked is loaded with audience pics from the 4/22 PC... Thank You!

 

[Evinrude]

there is no doubt in my mind that someone has to know BG from the pic. I dont care if pic is blurry. The harder one looked the more youd notice things to confirm suspicions.

Via my perspective

light brown full head of hair, possible mullet. Not sure as it could be part of hoodie behind left ear.
18-32 based on what my blind eagle eyes can tell.
A pistol in his right coat pocket, as it appears as silhouette.
Some type of baton or rod in his rigjt pant leg.
Not sure if I see something long in his left pant leg, on video only.

still, someone has to know him from pic. If close resemblance, youd just have to know via your gut.
Moo

 

[Boxer]

there is no doubt in my mind that someone has to know BG from the pic. I dont care if pic is blurry. The harder one looked the more youd notice things to confirm suspicions.

Via my perspective

light brown full head of hair, possible mullet. Not sure as it could be part of hoodie behind left ear.
18-32 based on what my blind eagle eyes can tell.
A pistol in his right coat pocket, as it appears as silhouette.
Some type of baton or rod in his rigjt pant leg.
Not sure if I see something long in his left pant leg, on video only.

still, someone has to know him from pic. If close resemblance, youd just have to know via your gut.
Moo

Moo: Who doesn't turn in murderers? Mainly parents, and of parents, mainly mothers.