Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #117

[IceIce9]

Moo: Who doesn't turn in murderers? Mainly parents, and of parents, mainly mothers.

Also girlfriends

 

[Evinrude]

What happened to the guy that, along with new gf and others murdered a lady he used to date. Tortured her. This was maybe less than a year ago not too far from Delphi.

 

[infarmgurl]

So who would have known that both properties were empty that day?

Find that out and maybe find the killer.
JMO.

Wasn't someone periodically checking the snowbird,'s property?
Did they see anything unusual in the house or outdoors area? We're they checking the property the day of the murders?

 

[infarmgurl]

So who would have known that both properties were empty that day?

Find that out and maybe find the killer.
JMO.

Wasn't someone periodically checking the snowbird,'s property?
Did they see anything unusual in the house or outdoors area? We're they checking the property the day of the murders?

 

[sleuther0192837465]

What happened to the guy that, along with new gf and others murdered a lady he used to date. Tortured her. This was maybe less than a year ago not too far from Delphi.

There is a thread here for Nicole Bowen. I believe you are asking about Garret Kirts? MOO
ETA:
Identified! - IN - Newton County, Fem, 30 Mar 2019 - Nicole Bowen

 

[Moonracer]

We dont know the extent of the video either. I'm assuming they felt something off about the guy so she busted out the phone and started to sneak record but these are still only assumptions. You're right about the time frame too. There had to have been a good volume of communication before the inevitable.

I have wondered if he called to them or whistled or something BEFORE she started recording, causing her to record it because he was inappropriate/scary. Called out "Girls, wait up" or something.

 

[BradB]

I think given the way of life today it's harder to get away with crime and especially violence like murder. Its one of those unfortunate situations where the guy is so damn lucky he wasnt wearing something else that day and the video wasnt clearer.

I'm sure the situation wasnt as severe as the ending turned out to be. Meaning they never thought in a million years it would come to what it did. Being weird and strange is one thing but getting murdered there was something that defied logic. Even as a grown adult I wouldn't picture somebody taking my life there during the day. It wouldn't cross my mind really. Anybody can be around, anybody can show up. I would bet they were in a state of shock like did this fool really just pull a weapon on us here?

 

[Evinrude]

I think given the way of life today it's harder to get away with crime and especially violence like murder. Its one of those unfortunate situations where the guy is so damn lucky he wasnt wearing something else that day and the video wasnt clearer.

I'm sure the situation wasnt as severe as the ending turned out to be. Meaning they never thought in a million years it would come to what it did. Being weird and strange is one thing but getting murdered there was something that defied logic. Even as a grown adult I wouldn't picture somebody taking my life there during the day. It wouldn't cross my mind really. Anybody can be around, anybody can show up. I would bet they were in a state of shock like did this fool really just pull a weapon on us here?

I agree as an adult but it still crosses ones mind. as maybe a pre-10 age, anyone would be a little frightened to make that trek.
i grew up with Friday the 13th type era.

 

[k-mac]

Psychopaths often put themselves in risky situations. For some offenders, the possibility of getting caught is part of the thrill. Some of them just don't seem to fear getting caught. They take it for granted that they're smarter than LE.
-
In my area, back in the 80s, there was a guy named Ronald Bailey who abducted, sexually assaulted, and murdered two teenage boys (separately). At one point Bailey was carrying around one of the boys, who was still alive, in a duffel bag. He even stopped to talk to a couple of people while he had the boy in the duffel bag. I think he might have asked them for directions to the spot where he later sodomized and strangled the boy. BG's nonchalance in the video reminds me of Bailey (who was in his mid twenties and had a long history of sexually assaulting younger boys).


I don't know whether he knew school would be out, but wouldn't high school have been just about done for the day anyway? The bridge area was probably a popular after-school hang-out spot.

ozoner this just broke my heart.
the world is so terribly cruel to some.

 

[sunshineray]

musings....

I don't think the killer prearranged a meetup with the girls. I DO think, however, that he knew they would be there...either through hearsay, social media, or an overheard conversation. The time window to make contact, then subdue them both (not sure how this was done, still can't believe they didn't scream like a son of) get down the hill, across the drive, down the next hill, across the flat, across the creek, and up that steep embankment, to the murder site, and commit the murder.....it's just surreal that all happened in such a short amount of time, and neither of the girls screamed, then make an escape, presumably wet, carrying all implements with him, totally undetected?

All of that, in and of itself, leads me to believe there was another individual involved.

BTW, a good search team, man or woman, with trained dog, could have scented on the girls trail that night and led the searcher to those girls' bodies within less than hour.

Who called off the search that night again?

Anyway, so, the killer PLANTS DNA and or other items/artifacts, at the scene, that pegs OBG, or at minimum, sends LE down the wrong path for 2 years. Amazin' how crafty that would be, eh?

Almost like somebody knew what they were doing.

I'm thinking someone like a lawyer, or judge, or teacher, or scout leader, or law enforcement official, or preacher, or local boy that made it big in college, you know, somebody that would cause a person to say "he's always such a nice guy, I would have NEVER thought THIS about him"

MOO

I can't get out of my head or heart that caller GH had on one of his more recent videos, whom he seemed to know and believe.

Caller spoke about knowing from his own family source supposedly in the know, that LE only had very little touch DNA from one of the girl's sweatshirts. It was only found on one spot on the shoulder. If that is in fact true, I can't see that as planted.

If that's true, the killer sure came prepared to either not leave hardly any DNA or to clean up mostly all of it. All done in quickly and again, if this caller is to be believed, very effectively like he done it before. Just a few thoughts and AJMO.

 

[PaulaDC]

Psychopaths often put themselves in risky situations. For some offenders, the possibility of getting caught is part of the thrill. Some of them just don't seem to fear getting caught. They take it for granted that they're smarter than LE.
-
In my area, back in the 80s, there was a guy named Ronald Bailey who abducted, sexually assaulted, and murdered two teenage boys (separately). At one point Bailey was carrying around one of the boys, who was still alive, in a duffel bag. He even stopped to talk to a couple of people while he had the boy in the duffel bag. I think he might have asked them for directions to the spot where he later sodomized and strangled the boy. BG's nonchalance in the video reminds me of Bailey (who was in his mid twenties and had a long history of sexually assaulting younger boys).


I don't know whether he knew school would be out, but wouldn't high school have been just about done for the day anyway? The bridge area was probably a popular after-school hang-out spot.

In my town back in the 1970's we were unfortunate to have John Wayne Gacy.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Feb 24, 2017

One matter the subject of debate can now be put to rest.

There were no surveillance cameras on the trail.

@ 4:50

 

[PaulaDC]

Feb 24, 2017

One matter the subject of debate can now be put to rest.

There were no surveillance cameras on the trail.

@ 4:50

Does it also open up the question of whether they were murdered there or just dumped there or has that been formally answered since this report?

 

[kkdj]

Also girlfriends

But imo, not forever. Maybe a family member forever, such as a mother, but not a girlfriend. jmo

 

[Righttable]

I can't get out of my head or heart that caller GH had on one of his more recent videos, whom he seemed to know and believe.

Caller spoke about knowing from his own family source supposedly in the know, that LE only had very little touch DNA from one of the girl's sweatshirts. It was only found on one spot on the shoulder. If that is in fact true, I can't see that as planted.

If that's true, the killer sure came prepared to either not leave hardly any DNA or to clean up mostly all of it. All done in quickly and again, if this caller is to be believed, very effectively like he done it before. Just a few thoughts and AJMO.

Is it possible the perp actually didn’t phsyically touch them that much?

 

[katydid23]

But imo, not forever. Maybe a family member forever, such as a mother, but not a girlfriend. jmo

Right...girlfriends often wait awhile before eventually telling the truth. They are sometimes forced to give a false alibi but will correct the record months or years later.

 

[katydid23]

Is it possible the perp actually didn’t phsyically touch them that much?

I have wondered that as well.

This may be a different crime than many assume it would be. I don't think they were sexually assaulted. I think maybe the 'pleasure' came from the murders. JMO

 

[Ozoner]

I have wondered that as well.

This may be a different crime than many assume it would be. I don't think they were sexually assaulted. I think maybe the 'pleasure' came from the murders. JMO

It's entirely possible.
As @katydid23 said, it's possible (but unlikely, imo) that there was no sexual assault.
Even if there was, BG may have left his pants and underwear pulled up and may have worn gloves and a condom, so he may not have touched the girls with his skin at all.
Even if there was touch DNA on one girl's sweatshirt, that DNA might not have come from BG.

 

[kkdj]

I have wondered that as well.

This may be a different crime than many assume it would be. I don't think they were sexually assaulted. I think maybe the 'pleasure' came from the murders. JMO

I tend to think they were sexually assaulted and that was the motivating factor. I'm not sure if they both were tho. But I think it's more than likely. The time frame throws me tho and I'm still not convinced of it. But that's just my hinky meter.

 

[tresir2012]

It's just one of those things that defies all odds especially with the technology today. Thousands and thousands of tips and nothing. One would assume if it was prearranged there would be something connecting the perp to them through phone messages or computer or whatever. It appears there just isnt. So we are all left with confusion. I cant blame LE for being confused. I waver back and forth a lot about what actually went down. I thought it was targeted for a long time but it's just too reckless. You don't need to go there especially during the day to attack girls or women. You can pick up hookers anywhere and anybody you want online. I lean towards them getting into it with the perp or them witnessing something they shouldn't have.

I'll take your word for it on the hookers and won't need a link.