VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[silenced]

Which lie is more believable?

Angela bought the shoes and the boys hated them, so she threw them away.

George saying he never saw them.

Why would she buy the shoes and not show George his pair? We know she bought them.

Presumably, George doesn’t know about the murder plan. Why would Angie show him the shoes? Shoes she bought for herself and Jake.

Either George was a part of the conspiracy or he wasn’t. Problem is, George’s own testimony seems to imply he was part of it. Or at least he was part of the “enmeshed” family and so also part of the conspiracy.

The shoes don’t do it for me.

 

[pamelado2]

The defense had a ho-hum presentation but they did have a remarkable ending. They caught prosecution off guard by putting George on the stand. They intentionally didn’t get any where near the murders, effectively blocking the prosecution from doing so. It was a slick move. Prosecution underestimated the defense.

I say the defense wasn't good because they got no where near clearing George. They put George on the stand but his testimony couldn't overcome what the prosecution did. It was a hail Mary that failed.

 

[silenced]

For me, the strongest evidence against George is Katie’s testimony. He says she was “mistaken” about what time GW3 showed up with the murder truck.

 

[silenced]

I say the defense wasn't good because they got no where near clearing George. They put George on the stand but his testimony couldn't overcome what the prosecution did. It was a hail Mary that failed.

Yes, too many inconsistencies in George’s testimony.

 

[pamelado2]

IMO, I’m not sure Jake even knows what happened that night. I think his written confession was made to corroborate with what the prosecution had evidence of. Supports multiple statements and proffers until the State got what they needed. Angie presumably wasn’t there so her testimony didn’t have to agree with Jake’s. IMO the State wanted all four or no deal.

What? So you don't think Jake committed the murders?

And Jake's testimony wasn't just about April 22, the rest of his testimony had to match with Angela and it did.

 

[ColMustard]

I'm beyond any semantics with the stories or evidence, I believe he's guilty, just as guilty as the other three.

 

[silenced]

What? So you don't think Jake committed the murders?

And Jake's testimony wasn't just about April 22, the rest of his testimony had to match with Angela and it did.

Whoa, no! I do think Jake committed the murders. That’s all I know for sure.

 

[Pru2U]

I say the defense wasn't good because they got no where near clearing George. They put George on the stand but his testimony couldn't overcome what the prosecution did. It was a hail Mary that failed.

I have thought a lot about the defense not seriously attempting impeach or discredit significant evidence or witnesses. They half heartedly tried with Tabi and with Beth but Beth wasn’t playing. She was probably my favorite witness. I could feel her scorn through my TV every time he tried.

 

[silenced]

I'm beyond any semantics with the stories or evidence, I believe he's guilty, just as guilty as the other three.

Can you believe Billy also hasn’t taken a plea? Without Jake’s confession we have very little. Angela got her plea in there to save herself. It comes down to whether or not the state has proved the Ws conspired to commit murder.

 

[ColMustard]

Can you believe Billy also hasn’t taken a plea? Without Jake’s confession we have very little. Angela got her plea in there to save herself. It comes down to whether or not the state has proved the Ws conspired to commit murder.

He probably still thinks he's smarter than everyone else. Bless his little heart.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Angela and Jake confessed last year.

Last week, Jake was on the stand, describing the murder weapons used and implicating George in the homicides.

Tuesday, it was Angela's turn. She told jurors that she bought shoes at a Walmart for her sons to wear the night of the murders, while George and Jake waited outside the store. She also described forging custody documents, in an effort to keep a daughter that Jake had with victim Hanna Rhoden with the Wagners, in case anything bad happened.


"She admits to buying the shoes for her sons, which, of course, she had already admitted to at the border. She admits to Googling and printing out those custody documents, to forging Hanna May's name to those documents, to also forging her mother's notary signature," Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa said during her opening statement several weeks ago.

Angela Wagner, who declined to let her testimony be shared outside the courtroom, testified that while she knew what was going to happen six years ago, the homicides still shocked her. She remembered asking her husband Billy why there were so many victims and she said he replied, "Because they were there

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Leather soles usually do not have a tread pattern so those type of prints may not be useful in that case…

Was he wearing cowboy boots?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Was he wearing cowboy boots?

I thought he was wearing the Wally World shoes??

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Idk, they shop together. Or George was with her on the shopping trip. Doesn’t prove he knew what she bought that day. It just doesn’t. I agree, it supports conspiracy: the family does everything/goes everywhere together.

That conspiracy is the case. If the family does everything and goes everywhere together, how could they plan and carry out such a crime without George's knowledge? They couldn't and didn't, imo.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

An obvious bloody shoe print was left at Chris Sr's, I have posted Scheiderer holding the photo of the bloody print. I always wondered why they left it.

So it makes sense George knew it was there and mentioned it to Angie - that he thought it was his - and that he wanted to smear it but Billy was in a hurry and told him to leave it. It explains why it wasn't smeared out like the others were. Obviously other prints were smeared or they would have found more bloody prints to use at Chris's.

Angie did not have to make this up for her deal. She already said George left with them that night.

I am going to say this about the shoeprints.

I think one question none of us have asked is, how did BCI know Lenny M owned a pair of those exact shoes? In BCI testimony Lenny said when questioned about them he told BCI he had thrown them away long before. Maybe months. They were in the landfill. Not just in the trash. In the landfill. That was in testimony in court.

How many months before had he worn those shoes? Maybe not since Hannah and Jake broke up? Maybe Lenny got a new pair of shoes for Xmas and threw those away. But Jake knew Lenny was wearing a pair of shoes like that before. He just didn't know for sure what size Lenny wore. But he knew pretty close to what size. So he had Angie buy 2 pairs. 10.5 and 11. Jake told BCI about Lenny having a pair like that. "Old man shoes."

I don't think those shoes were ever worn at the crime scenes. Period. The two left feet of both pairs were taken to the crime scenes. Once the murders were committed those two left feet were placed in blood then stamped onto the vinyl. That is why there were only two out of the hundreds that would have been there by shooting, killing, and dragging bodies.

The timeline according to Jake has never matched up. There is hours missing from his account. Angie's too. Like rsd said they couldn't spare a minute to wipe out two left shoe prints when they had to have wiped out hundreds already?

We all saw those pictures of the living room at Chris sr's. The long bloody drag marks. But mysteriously, in walking through all that blood to drag bodies, why wasn't there a trail of bloody footprints walking out the front door when they left. No blood smears where they would have been wiped out either. In fact from the drag trail to the front door there was only a few blood spots. Tiny ones that showed no evidence of any effort to wipe anything away. Yet according to Jake he was in and out of there not once but twice. According to Jake Billy was too. But yet the floor between the drag marks and the front door was clean.

If someone still has one or two of those photos can you post them up again so we can all look at them? Just the living room.

So why didn't they "smudge out" those two prints? They did all the others. Why leave just those two prints of a pair of shoes that Jake had to know Lenny wore. Don't forget Jake hated Lenny and the feeling was mutual.

Those two prints were left to point the finger at Lenny.

Maybe they were left to point the finger James M also. The M's were not wealthy people. They were not even above poverty line. Lenny was more than likely living on SSI since he was a logger who was probably paid in cash most of his life. Ditto for James. If it rained or snowed he couldn't work. I am going to say winter in Ohio was very lean times in the M household. I think they could not afford more than that. And I think Jake knew that.

They knew Lenny couldn't afford more expensive shoes. They knew that he probably couldn't afford more than one or two pairs of shoes at a time. Ditto for James. One pair of work boots and one pair of cheap tennis shoes.

That back window at Chris sr's has never been explained either. Why was it open with the curtain hanging out?

One scenario that fits that is Jake had Angie fire those wild shots at the front of the trailer and while Chris and Gary were trying to look out to see what was going on, Chris was shot through the wall and hit in the arm. While Angie was creating a diversion Jake crawled through that back window and shot Chris and Gary with that .40 cal Glock. He then dragged the bodies to the back room, took off his shoes before he walked through the bedroom and climbed back out the window.

The print was left at Dana's for the same reason. Except the blood had been partially wiped off by placing the shoes in the floor of the vehicle.

JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

WKRC


Wagner’s defense lawyers introduced five witnesses, including three who flew in to testify on his behalf from Alaska. That’s where the Wagner family moved in 2017, a year after eight members of the Rhoden and Gilley families were shot to death.

George is on trial for aggravated murder for his alleged role in the killings, which occurred in April 2016.

The prosecution has not yet rested its case, and Monday, prosecutors introduced evidence about how agents with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation recreated the hidden compartment in the pickup truck allegedly used the night of the killings.

In October, George Wagner's younger brother, Jake, testified the brothers built it so they could hide on the way to the Rhoden homes.

Earlier, George's defense lawyers suggested they couldn't have fit inside that space.

But BCI special agent Ryan Scheiderer, who led the overall investigation, got two volunteers from law enforcement much larger than Jake and George to test it. One was 6'4" and 254 pounds, and the other was 6'7" and 330 pounds.

George was 6'0" and 252 pounds, and Jake was 6'1" and 170 pounds close to the time of their arrest.

"They were able to enter and exit the bed without any issues whatsoever," Scheiderer said.

Scheiderer also testified about text messages sent to George in June 2018 showing pictures of Jake holding what is believed to be one of the murder weapons. BCI agents had extracted the picture from a backup of Jake’s iPhone, found on a laptop seized at the Montana border in 2017.

Other items included pictures of items used to make a silencer. Scheiderer testified he asked for George’s cooperation.

Scheiderer also testified he logged on to the social media site Topix under false names, putting out false information about the investigation, including when and where BCI agents might be searching. He said he did that because agents knew George’s mother, Angela, frequented those sites, looking for information.

And Scheiderer testified Monday about how the BCI got warrants to wiretap the semi-truck George and Jake drove across country in 2018 for R&L Carriers.

The day ended with Scheiderer testifying about the movies “Boondock Saints” and “Boondock Saint 2,” which prosecutors allege may have provided inspiration to the Wagner men for the killings.

Ryan Scheiderer, lead investigator with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigations, testified at George Wagner IV’s trial about the Boondocks Saints movies. Jake previously testified he watched a clip prior to the night of the homicides to get ‘psyched up.’ Eight members of the Rhoden family were found shot to death at four different locations on April 21-22, 2016. George Wagner IV is on trial in Pike County Common Pleas Court in Waverly, Ohio, Monday Nov. 7, 2022. Jake Wagner and mom, Angela Wagner, have already pleaded guilty. George’s dad, George “Billy” Wagner III will go on trial in 2023.


Earlier Monday, the defense put on five witnesses, including the Wagners' pastor from Alaska, Rev. Caleb Cinereski, who met the Wagner sons when he was also young in Ohio. He said he was shocked to hear Jake and Angela had pleaded guilty to the crimes.

Shawn Fisher testified off camera, telling jurors he inked tattoos for all three Wagner men after the murders. Those tattoos have been shown previously in court and were shown again late Monday. Father Billy Wagner got a scorpion on his hand, which prosecutors and Scheiderer testified may allude to the final scene in “Boondock Saints 2,” when the father character kills his best friend, citing a fable involving a scorpion, and says the line, “It’s in my nature."

Jake got one featuring flaming pistons on his upper arm.

Fisher said he covered up a previous tattoo for George with a skull and an eight ball and three ace playing cards.

Shawn Fisher, a tattoo artist who used to work in Portsmouth, Ohio, testified for the defense in the trial of George Wagner IV, Monday Nov. 7, 2022 in Pike County Common Pleas Court in Waverly, Ohio. Fisher testified he did this tattoo for Wagner. He said it was to cover a previous tattoo and the design was his own, but approved by Wagner. He said skulls and eight balls are very common. Eight members of the Rhoden family were found shot to death at four different locations on April 21-22, 2016. Wagner’s brother Jake Wagner and mom, Angela Wagner, have already pleaded guilty. George’s dad, George “Billy” Wagner III will go on trial in 2023.
Ohio BCI agents have testified in pretrial hearings that it could be commemorating the murders, but Fisher said he and George came up with the design on the fly.

Later, Caleb took the stand, following his father, Kelly Cinereski – a native of Ohio who moved to Alaska to become a pastor there.

Caleb recalled how he learned Jake had implicated the entire family, and how he felt about anyone who might have been involved with the murders.

“At what point did you know that?" special prosecutor Angela Canepa asked.

“That they were all four involved? I did not learn that until watching YouTube of this trial,” Caleb said.

“So, fair to say that you're equally disgusted with anyone who is involved?” Canepa asked.

“100 percent,” he said.

Scheiderer did not finish his testimony Monday and will be cross-examined

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Defense puts witnesses on stand early in George Wagner trial, prosecution brings wiretaps

local12.com

WAVERLY, Ohio (WKRC) - The defense began questioning its witnesses in the Pike County massacre murder trial of George Wagner IV a day early because of scheduling issues, but the prosecution still got in key points about the final months of the investigation into the Wagner family.

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WKRC


Wagner’s defense lawyers introduced five witnesses, including three who flew in to testify on his behalf from Alaska. That’s where the Wagner family moved in 2017, a year after eight members of the Rhoden and Gilley families were shot to death.

George is on trial for aggravated murder for his alleged role in the killings, which occurred in April 2016.

The prosecution has not yet rested its case, and Monday, prosecutors introduced evidence about how agents with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation recreated the hidden compartment in the pickup truck allegedly used the night of the killings.

In October, George Wagner's younger brother, Jake, testified the brothers built it so they could hide on the way to the Rhoden homes.

Earlier, George's defense lawyers suggested they couldn't have fit inside that space.

But BCI special agent Ryan Scheiderer, who led the overall investigation, got two volunteers from law enforcement much larger than Jake and George to test it. One was 6'4" and 254 pounds, and the other was 6'7" and 330 pounds.

George was 6'0" and 252 pounds, and Jake was 6'1" and 170 pounds close to the time of their arrest.

"They were able to enter and exit the bed without any issues whatsoever," Scheiderer said.

Scheiderer also testified about text messages sent to George in June 2018 showing pictures of Jake holding what is believed to be one of the murder weapons. BCI agents had extracted the picture from a backup of Jake’s iPhone, found on a laptop seized at the Montana border in 2017.

Other items included pictures of items used to make a silencer. Scheiderer testified he asked for George’s cooperation.

Scheiderer also testified he logged on to the social media site Topix under false names, putting out false information about the investigation, including when and where BCI agents might be searching. He said he did that because agents knew George’s mother, Angela, frequented those sites, looking for information.

And Scheiderer testified Monday about how the BCI got warrants to wiretap the semi-truck George and Jake drove across country in 2018 for R&L Carriers.

The day ended with Scheiderer testifying about the movies “Boondock Saints” and “Boondock Saint 2,” which prosecutors allege may have provided inspiration to the Wagner men for the killings.

Ryan Scheiderer, lead investigator with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigations, testified at George Wagner IV’s trial about the Boondocks Saints movies. Jake previously testified he watched a clip prior to the night of the homicides to get ‘psyched up.’ Eight members of the Rhoden family were found shot to death at four different locations on April 21-22, 2016. George Wagner IV is on trial in Pike County Common Pleas Court in Waverly, Ohio, Monday Nov. 7, 2022. Jake Wagner and mom, Angela Wagner, have already pleaded guilty. George’s dad, George “Billy” Wagner III will go on trial in 2023.


Earlier Monday, the defense put on five witnesses, including the Wagners' pastor from Alaska, Rev. Caleb Cinereski, who met the Wagner sons when he was also young in Ohio. He said he was shocked to hear Jake and Angela had pleaded guilty to the crimes.

Shawn Fisher testified off camera, telling jurors he inked tattoos for all three Wagner men after the murders. Those tattoos have been shown previously in court and were shown again late Monday. Father Billy Wagner got a scorpion on his hand, which prosecutors and Scheiderer testified may allude to the final scene in “Boondock Saints 2,” when the father character kills his best friend, citing a fable involving a scorpion, and says the line, “It’s in my nature."

Jake got one featuring flaming pistons on his upper arm.

Fisher said he covered up a previous tattoo for George with a skull and an eight ball and three ace playing cards.

Shawn Fisher, a tattoo artist who used to work in Portsmouth, Ohio, testified for the defense in the trial of George Wagner IV, Monday Nov. 7, 2022 in Pike County Common Pleas Court in Waverly, Ohio. Fisher testified he did this tattoo for Wagner. He said it was to cover a previous tattoo and the design was his own, but approved by Wagner. He said skulls and eight balls are very common. Eight members of the Rhoden family were found shot to death at four different locations on April 21-22, 2016. Wagner’s brother Jake Wagner and mom, Angela Wagner, have already pleaded guilty. George’s dad, George “Billy” Wagner III will go on trial in 2023.
Ohio BCI agents have testified in pretrial hearings that it could be commemorating the murders, but Fisher said he and George came up with the design on the fly.

Later, Caleb took the stand, following his father, Kelly Cinereski – a native of Ohio who moved to Alaska to become a pastor there.

Caleb recalled how he learned Jake had implicated the entire family, and how he felt about anyone who might have been involved with the murders.

“At what point did you know that?" special prosecutor Angela Canepa asked.

“That they were all four involved? I did not learn that until watching YouTube of this trial,” Caleb said.

“So, fair to say that you're equally disgusted with anyone who is involved?” Canepa asked.

“100 percent,” he said.

Scheiderer did not finish his testimony Monday and will be cross-examined

Sorry don’t how so much other writing got posted?

 

[silenced]

I am going to say this about the shoeprints.

I think one question none of us have asked is, how did BCI know Lenny M owned a pair of those exact shoes? In BCI testimony Lenny said when questioned about them he told BCI he had thrown them away long before. Maybe months. They were in the landfill. Not just in the trash. In the landfill. That was in testimony in court.

How many months before had he worn those shoes? Maybe not since Hannah and Jake broke up? Maybe Lenny got a new pair of shoes for Xmas and threw those away. But Jake knew Lenny was wearing a pair of shoes like that before. He just didn't know for sure what size Lenny wore. But he knew pretty close to what size. So he had Angie buy 2 pairs. 10.5 and 11. Jake told BCI about Lenny having a pair like that. "Old man shoes."

I don't think those shoes were ever worn at the crime scenes. Period. The two left feet of both pairs were taken to the crime scenes. Once the murders were committed those two left feet were placed in blood then stamped onto the vinyl. That is why there were only two out of the hundreds that would have been there by shooting, killing, and dragging bodies.

The timeline according to Jake has never matched up. There is hours missing from his account. Angie's too. Like rsd said they couldn't spare a minute to wipe out two left shoe prints when they had to have wiped out hundreds already?

We all saw those pictures of the living room at Chris sr's. The long bloody drag marks. But mysteriously, in walking through all that blood to drag bodies, why wasn't there a trail of bloody footprints walking out the front door when they left. No blood smears where they would have been wiped out either. In fact from the drag trail to the front door there was only a few blood spots. Tiny ones that showed no evidence of any effort to wipe anything away. Yet according to Jake he was in and out of there not once but twice. According to Jake Billy was too. But yet the floor between the drag marks and the front door was clean.

If someone still has one or two of those photos can you post them up again so we can all look at them? Just the living room.

So why didn't they "smudge out" those two prints? They did all the others. Why leave just those two prints of a pair of shoes that Jake had to know Lenny wore. Don't forget Jake hated Lenny and the feeling was mutual.

Those two prints were left to point the finger at Lenny.

Maybe they were left to point the finger James M also. The M's were not wealthy people. They were not even above poverty line. Lenny was more than likely living on SSI since he was a logger who was probably paid in cash most of his life. Ditto for James. If it rained or snowed he couldn't work. I am going to say winter in Ohio was very lean times in the M household. I think they could not afford more than that. And I think Jake knew that.

They knew Lenny couldn't afford more expensive shoes. They knew that he probably couldn't afford more than one or two pairs of shoes at a time. Ditto for James. One pair of work boots and one pair of cheap tennis shoes.

That back window at Chris sr's has never been explained either. Why was it open with the curtain hanging out?

One scenario that fits that is Jake had Angie fire those wild shots at the front of the trailer and while Chris and Gary were trying to look out to see what was going on, Chris was shot through the wall and hit in the arm. While Angie was creating a diversion Jake crawled through that back window and shot Chris and Gary with that .40 cal Glock. He then dragged the bodies to the back room, took off his shoes before he walked through the bedroom and climbed back out the window.

The print was left at Dana's for the same reason. Except the blood had been partially wiped off by placing the shoes in the floor of the vehicle.

JMO

I am going to say this about the shoeprints.

I think one question none of us have asked is, how did BCI know Lenny M owned a pair of those exact shoes? In BCI testimony Lenny said when questioned about them he told BCI he had thrown them away long before. Maybe months. They were in the landfill. Not just in the trash. In the landfill. That was in testimony in court.

How many months before had he worn those shoes? Maybe not since Hannah and Jake broke up? Maybe Lenny got a new pair of shoes for Xmas and threw those away. But Jake knew Lenny was wearing a pair of shoes like that before. He just didn't know for sure what size Lenny wore. But he knew pretty close to what size. So he had Angie buy 2 pairs. 10.5 and 11. Jake told BCI about Lenny having a pair like that. "Old man shoes."

I don't think those shoes were ever worn at the crime scenes. Period. The two left feet of both pairs were taken to the crime scenes. Once the murders were committed those two left feet were placed in blood then stamped onto the vinyl. That is why there were only two out of the hundreds that would have been there by shooting, killing, and dragging bodies.

The timeline according to Jake has never matched up. There is hours missing from his account. Angie's too. Like rsd said they couldn't spare a minute to wipe out two left shoe prints when they had to have wiped out hundreds already?

We all saw those pictures of the living room at Chris sr's. The long bloody drag marks. But mysteriously, in walking through all that blood to drag bodies, why wasn't there a trail of bloody footprints walking out the front door when they left. No blood smears where they would have been wiped out either. In fact from the drag trail to the front door there was only a few blood spots. Tiny ones that showed no evidence of any effort to wipe anything away. Yet according to Jake he was in and out of there not once but twice. According to Jake Billy was too. But yet the floor between the drag marks and the front door was clean.

If someone still has one or two of those photos can you post them up again so we can all look at them? Just the living room.

So why didn't they "smudge out" those two prints? They did all the others. Why leave just those two prints of a pair of shoes that Jake had to know Lenny wore. Don't forget Jake hated Lenny and the feeling was mutual.

Those two prints were left to point the finger at Lenny.

Maybe they were left to point the finger James M also. The M's were not wealthy people. They were not even above poverty line. Lenny was more than likely living on SSI since he was a logger who was probably paid in cash most of his life. Ditto for James. If it rained or snowed he couldn't work. I am going to say winter in Ohio was very lean times in the M household. I think they could not afford more than that. And I think Jake knew that.

They knew Lenny couldn't afford more expensive shoes. They knew that he probably couldn't afford more than one or two pairs of shoes at a time. Ditto for James. One pair of work boots and one pair of cheap tennis shoes.

That back window at Chris sr's has never been explained either. Why was it open with the curtain hanging out?

One scenario that fits that is Jake had Angie fire those wild shots at the front of the trailer and while Chris and Gary were trying to look out to see what was going on, Chris was shot through the wall and hit in the arm. While Angie was creating a diversion Jake crawled through that back window and shot Chris and Gary with that .40 cal Glock. He then dragged the bodies to the back room, took off his shoes before he walked through the bedroom and climbed back out the window.

The print was left at Dana's for the same reason. Except the blood had been partially wiped off by placing the shoes in the floor of the vehicle.

JMO

Yup, shoe prints don’t do it for me.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Because alot of what Angie says makes sense and fits BCI evidence.

To not believe Angie means not to believe her when she says she is guilty. Can't just say she is being truthful about her involvement but no, now she is lying here or lying there. Picking and choosing lies at random to fit a made up scenario that she is framing George.

She would want him out to raise his son, not framing him for murder. She didn't need to lie about George to confess and just tell what she knows, to get her plea deal.

The families did not want 4 trials. Angie admits guilt, tells what she knows, gets 30 years. No need to frame someone no need to lie about someone.

Ditto Jake.

Do you think Angie picked and chose what lies to tell about the SA of SW? Or about Beth?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

View attachment 383056

This is really a good picture of the three of them JBB. Plainly shows the mark on Billys face. Shows how big him and George was too at the time of the murders. Thanks for posting this. This is the best picture I have seen of them at the funerals to date. I hate that smirk on jake's face though.

JMO