VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[Willow Knight]

True - I expect the Judge to rule on the left over motions first thing Monday morning & then Prosecutor to go most of Monday & maybe into Tuesday morning, then defense - maybe going over to Wed. & than rebuttal by pros (maybe) - and judge reads jury instruction - late Wednesday into Thursday morning.

And I predict verdict by Dec. 15th!

You're on Niner!! I'm going with Dec. 8th! (Don't know how to do smiley faces, but I'll do the 'wink')

 

[ColMustard]

Sorry don’t how so much other writing got posted?

My computer showed all the gibberish code, but it's perfect on my phone.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

DBM Double post

 

[rsd1200]

BCI showed them the shoe prints. And the receipt for the shoes.

I did not hear that, I heard only the part about the receipts. Were they shown the prints at the MT border? I knew they brought in the three W men to have molds done of their feet, but thought that was after MT border. I guess G4 didn't realize there were two prints shown there, instead of one, that he was taking credit for, at CR1's (Unless he has two left feet, one a 1/2 size bigger than the other).

I still don't see G3, a professional criminal, who trained his sons to be criminals, telling one of them to forget about taking a second to take smear that shoeprint, at a double murder they'd just committed. Maybe he subconsciously wanted them to get caught.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

This one was odd & niggles at my brain. Jake said he broke the tip trying to pry open the back door at Frankie’s yet we can clearly see it isn’t broken. So why did he bury it in concrete with the rest of the evidence? Is there something else about this knife Jake forgot to mention?

That one bothers me too.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

The murder truck was bought with Jake and George’s money? JMO
View attachment 383066

I still say there is no way 300 lbs George got under that truck without a hydraulic jack. Jake testified he was underneath the truck between the back tire and the back passenger space.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Proves he was there and not somewhere else.

You cannot see plainly who is in the passenger seat in that shot. The window was rolled up and it shows barely a shoulder. Could have been anyone.

JMO

 

[justtrish]

More baloney from Billy's interview above, trying to point the finger away from the Wagner family. He was even trying to blame the local Pike County deputies


That sounds close to something Billy had done - ripping off a Cincinnati drug dealer and the Cornbread Mafia controlling KY pill mills. Don't forget GW4 testifying about how Billy and Angela made regular trips to Florida to get oxy from pain doctors there, bringing them up to sell in Ohio.

That interview they played with Billy sure was eyebrow raising. I'm sure those BCI agents were like well he sure knew a lot about the drugs for not knowing anything about the drugs. HA He just kept digging his hole the more he opened his mouth. I don't know anything about that.. but let me tell you something. They had to have known at that point something was rotten there. That was in Sept 2016 if I remember correctly.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

IMO, it puts him right smack in the middle of the conspiracy. We know she bought the shoes for Jake and George because that was her story when confronted in Montana. She said she threw them away because they didn’t like them. George was waiting in the car while she made the purchase.

People can make all the excuses they want trying to provide reasons George didn’t have know about the shoes, that’s fine. The evidence shows he was waiting in the car when she made the purchase. That’s all the jury needs to know. He was there.

No way can anyone prove he was in the car unless they were in the car. I wasn't. So again you are taking the word of a liar. One liar at that. Jake didn't say George was in the car at Walmart.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

IMO, it puts him right smack in the middle of the conspiracy. We know she bought the shoes for Jake and George because that was her story when confronted in Montana. She said she threw them away because they didn’t like them. George was waiting in the car while she made the purchase.

People can make all the excuses they want trying to provide reasons George didn’t have know about the shoes, that’s fine. The evidence shows he was waiting in the car when she made the purchase. That’s all the jury needs to know. He was there.

That and the witness testimony from his mother and brother.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

The defense had a ho-hum presentation but they did have a remarkable ending. They caught prosecution off guard by putting George on the stand. They intentionally didn’t get any where near the murders, effectively blocking the prosecution from doing so. It was a slick move. Prosecution underestimated the defense.

I disagree. Parker asked George twice if he was on UHR during the murders. The defense opened the door right there but Canepa slammed it back shut because she doesn't have any proof he was there.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

No way can anyone prove he was in the car unless they were in the car. I wasn't. So again you are taking the word of a liar. One liar at that. Jake didn't say George was in the car at Walmart.

JMO

The standard of reasonable doubt wouldn't exclude evidence showing him in the car from Walmart's surveillance video.

There's no need, nor is it fair to set the bar impossibly high for GW4. Jurors don't need to hear a confession from him to know he's guilty.

 

[justtrish]

RE: how they knew Leonard Manley had the shoes.. They pulled the Walmart records for anyone buying those shoes since Jan of 2016.

Pike County murder trial Day 14: Family members testify about day Rhodens were found dead

WAVERLY — The weeks-long trial of George Wagner IV, who is charged with killing eight members of one family in Pike County, was abruptly paused Thursday due to a juror falling ill.

www.springfieldnewssun.com

He also spoke to the shoeprint evidence Elliott testified to earlier; investigators searched purchase records and surveillance footage at every Walmart within a 50 mile radius of the crime scenes, Scheiderer said. That revealed that Leonard Manley, Dana’s father, purchased the same shoes that matched the bloody prints in the first crime scene in February, just before the homicides.

Manley had purchased size 10 shoes, however; Elliott said the shoe prints in the first scene were sized 11 and 10.5. When asked where the shoes were, Manley told investigators he’d thrown them away, Scheiderer said. BCI agents retrieved them from the garbage, but Elliott said his shoes were too worn from use to match the shoe prints, which showed new, unworn tread patterns.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

For me, the strongest evidence against George is Katie’s testimony. He says she was “mistaken” about what time GW3 showed up with the murder truck.

He never said Katy was mistaken. I watched it all again. He said Chelsa was mistaken when she said Frankie and George had a grudge. He plain out said Angie and Jake were lying to BCI about him being there. He said Angie, Jake and Tabbi were mixing up two different incidents on the gun/board.

If he ever said Katy was mistaken about the truck I never heard it in listening twice, so if someone has the time stamp?

JMO

 

[pamelado2]

No way can anyone prove he was in the car unless they were in the car. I wasn't. So again you are taking the word of a liar. One liar at that. Jake didn't say George was in the car at Walmart.

JMO

Of course we're taking the word of a liar against another liar, and why not?
What does Jake have to gain by lying about George?
What does George have to lose by lying about not being involved?

 

[Betty P]

I disagree. Parker asked George twice if he was on UHR during the murders. The defense opened the door right there but Canepa slammed it back shut because she doesn't have any proof he was there.

JMO

Or she knew he would lie and try to blame it on someone else.

 

[Betty P]

RE: how they knew Leonard Manley had the shoes.. They pulled the Walmart records for anyone buying those shoes since Jan of 2016.

Pike County murder trial Day 14: Family members testify about day Rhodens were found dead

WAVERLY — The weeks-long trial of George Wagner IV, who is charged with killing eight members of one family in Pike County, was abruptly paused Thursday due to a juror falling ill.

www.springfieldnewssun.com

He also spoke to the shoeprint evidence Elliott testified to earlier; investigators searched purchase records and surveillance footage at every Walmart within a 50 mile radius of the crime scenes, Scheiderer said. That revealed that Leonard Manley, Dana’s father, purchased the same shoes that matched the bloody prints in the first crime scene in February, just before the homicides.

Manley had purchased size 10 shoes, however; Elliott said the shoe prints in the first scene were sized 11 and 10.5. When asked where the shoes were, Manley told investigators he’d thrown them away, Scheiderer said. BCI agents retrieved them from the garbage, but Elliott said his shoes were too worn from use to match the shoe prints, which showed new, unworn tread patterns.

I hope people aren't still thinking Leonard Manley is guilty. Several of us have posted that link multiple times. I guess we have to keep posting it.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I did not hear that, I heard only the part about the receipts. Were they shown the prints at the MT border? I knew they brought in the three W men to have molds done of their feet, but thought that was after MT border. I guess G4 didn't realize there were two prints shown there, instead of one, that he was taking credit for, at CR1's (Unless he has two left feet, one a 1/2 size bigger than the other).

I still don't see G3, a professional criminal, who trained his sons to be criminals, telling one of them to forget about taking a second to take smear that shoeprint, at a double murder they'd just committed. Maybe he subconsciously wanted them to get caught.

I guess G4 didn't realize there were two prints shown there, instead of one, that he was taking credit for, at CR1's (Unless he has two left feet, one a 1/2 size bigger than the other).

LMAO. You come up with the funniest stuff.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

That interview they played with Billy sure was eyebrow raising. I'm sure those BCI agents were like well he sure knew a lot about the drugs for not knowing anything about the drugs. HA He just kept digging his hole the more he opened his mouth. I don't know anything about that.. but let me tell you something. They had to have known at that point something was rotten there. That was in Sept 2016 if I remember correctly.

Let me tell ya somethin" I am betting BCI was wishing DEA was in that car. lol

JMO

 

[Betty P]

I am going to say this about the shoeprints.

I think one question none of us have asked is, how did BCI know Lenny M owned a pair of those exact shoes? In BCI testimony Lenny said when questioned about them he told BCI he had thrown them away long before. Maybe months. They were in the landfill. Not just in the trash. In the landfill. That was in testimony in court.

How many months before had he worn those shoes? Maybe not since Hannah and Jake broke up? Maybe Lenny got a new pair of shoes for Xmas and threw those away. But Jake knew Lenny was wearing a pair of shoes like that before. He just didn't know for sure what size Lenny wore. But he knew pretty close to what size. So he had Angie buy 2 pairs. 10.5 and 11. Jake told BCI about Lenny having a pair like that. "Old man shoes."

I don't think those shoes were ever worn at the crime scenes. Period. The two left feet of both pairs were taken to the crime scenes. Once the murders were committed those two left feet were placed in blood then stamped onto the vinyl. That is why there were only two out of the hundreds that would have been there by shooting, killing, and dragging bodies.

The timeline according to Jake has never matched up. There is hours missing from his account. Angie's too. Like rsd said they couldn't spare a minute to wipe out two left shoe prints when they had to have wiped out hundreds already?

We all saw those pictures of the living room at Chris sr's. The long bloody drag marks. But mysteriously, in walking through all that blood to drag bodies, why wasn't there a trail of bloody footprints walking out the front door when they left. No blood smears where they would have been wiped out either. In fact from the drag trail to the front door there was only a few blood spots. Tiny ones that showed no evidence of any effort to wipe anything away. Yet according to Jake he was in and out of there not once but twice. According to Jake Billy was too. But yet the floor between the drag marks and the front door was clean.

If someone still has one or two of those photos can you post them up again so we can all look at them? Just the living room.

So why didn't they "smudge out" those two prints? They did all the others. Why leave just those two prints of a pair of shoes that Jake had to know Lenny wore. Don't forget Jake hated Lenny and the feeling was mutual.

Those two prints were left to point the finger at Lenny.

Maybe they were left to point the finger James M also. The M's were not wealthy people. They were not even above poverty line. Lenny was more than likely living on SSI since he was a logger who was probably paid in cash most of his life. Ditto for James. If it rained or snowed he couldn't work. I am going to say winter in Ohio was very lean times in the M household. I think they could not afford more than that. And I think Jake knew that.

They knew Lenny couldn't afford more expensive shoes. They knew that he probably couldn't afford more than one or two pairs of shoes at a time. Ditto for James. One pair of work boots and one pair of cheap tennis shoes.

That back window at Chris sr's has never been explained either. Why was it open with the curtain hanging out?

One scenario that fits that is Jake had Angie fire those wild shots at the front of the trailer and while Chris and Gary were trying to look out to see what was going on, Chris was shot through the wall and hit in the arm. While Angie was creating a diversion Jake crawled through that back window and shot Chris and Gary with that .40 cal Glock. He then dragged the bodies to the back room, took off his shoes before he walked through the bedroom and climbed back out the window.

The print was left at Dana's for the same reason. Except the blood had been partially wiped off by placing the shoes in the floor of the vehicle.

JMO

Are you saying BCI fabricated the shoe print evidence? If so, that's a very strong accusation and you'll need something more to back it up.