Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[mtnlites]

I think the foreigner means they would/should have known they couldn't have gone that far in an hour or so. Were family on Libby's Snapchat or only her friends?

We don't know who all Libby had on her Snapchat. That was closed down pretty quickly and since none of us could view it, we didn't see it. It's not info that's leaked through anywhere as far as I've seen.

I think they could've gotten plenty far in an hour, though. By foot maybe not more than a mile or two but by car? Almost to Indianapolis.

 

[tresir2012]

Yes I understand that but someone watched that snapchat image 7 hours after Libby posted it, and made a screenshot of it at ca 9:07PM, that screenshot that we have a copy of with the "7h ago " at the upper left corner of the screenshot, and who was that?

I think it was someone on the search party that evening who showed/gave it to media. I don't think it has been stated who it was. MOO

 

[Cryptic]

Expanding on this speculation, where might these girls know this Perp from, and why would they respond compliantly to his directive?

If the victims were targeted, the source of the compliance might be hybrid:

-Perpetrator does have an authority position and knows how how to handle children (teacher, youth sports coach, clergy, pool life guard, camp leader etc)

- The girls don't know him from his authority position. Rather, they know him distantly as the boyfriend of 'c', the friend of 'f'', or the argumentative guy who used to call relative 'r'.

So, the victims could have responded compliantly due to a combination of a command voice from somebody used to handling juveniles, and being some what familiar with him. They would not even need to know his name to have some degree of familiarity and be willing to comply initially. Rather, he could be known as "the guy" that knows "K".

 

[Theforeigner]

A Snapchat photo taken on the bridge only proves where they were at 2:07. It wouldn’t have been automatically assumed they were still hanging around the bridge more than an hour later, as it appears they were expected to go back to the parking area where he’d pick them up.

I know, however IMO it would have given a clue to that the girls indeed had been to the bridge as they said they would, and that they had not just ran off.

<modsnip>

Add to that that already at ca 3PM Libby's phone vent straight to voicemail witch indicate that the mobile was turned of or dead one way or the other, and that was one more clue to that something probably was amiss.

 

[tresir2012]

if the timer is set to 3 seconds the icon will stay the same but the bar will just spin around the icon faster. The point of the icon is to actually see the time running out.

ETA: the app is minimal in size and is free to download if anyone wants to sleuth how it works.

How it worked then is what we are interested in. Thank you for your patience explaining it. I've got it now. The less time you have to view the faster it goes.

 

[Boxer]

I know, however IMO it would have given a clue to that the girls indeed had been to the bridge as they said they would, and that they had not just ran off.

<modsnip>

Add to that that already at ca 3PM Libby's phone vent straight to voicemail witch indicate that the mobile was turned of or dead one way or the other, and that was one more clue to that something probably was amiss.

Very much agree.

 

[nwmouse]

Respectfully snipped for focus.
I agree with your post 100%. As I associate the voice with the newer sketch and listen to it over and over, it brings forth the following speculations for me.

"Guys". Immediately after the lengthier sound sample was released, and the word *guys* was added to it, I thought *familiar/familiarity*. I know many of you have offered up your own personal experiences with hearing, or using the term *guys*. However, staying laser focused on this particular use case, and attempting to remove the lens of our own personal experiences, it sounds to me like he is addressing these girls with not only authority, but *familiarity*. Albeit, these girls might not know him by name, but perhaps to some degree by sight. We don't know if there is any reference by the girls to recognizing him at all. We only have the brief sound sample to go by.

Expanding on this speculation, where might these girls know this Perp from, and why would they respond compliantly to his directive? We know that girls in particular, are socialized to be obedient, polite, and demure around adults. In addition, we have the added layer of responding to authority, regardless of age. The girls were walking where they weren't supposed to, and the Perp might have positioned himself as a Park Authority of some sort; bridge police. And of course, he could have had a weapon pointed at them to gain immediate compliance.

Yet, I think the "guys" is really important here. It's something a teacher / coach / referee would say to a group of kids. When I think of these two girls and who would have access to them, I keep going back to their sporting activities. The Perp could be a volunteer who supports the school's sporting activities, a part-time coaches assistant, a parent, or even someone like this from an opposing team they play against.

The Perp seemingly knew the girls were going hiking on the bridge, and tracked them on a *day off from school*. Either he had a day off from school too (either as a student or employee), or he took a sick day. I think it's the former; I speculate he is attached to the school system in some manner.

I strongly speculate the hike on the bridge that day was purposeful and prearranged. Others knew that girls were going to be there. One of them must have blasted that out on social media, and the Perp jumped in to action.

So, in summary, if forced to narrow in on my best speculation of who this Perp is, I'd say it's someone 16-19 years old, had the day off from school, and perhaps is a part time assistant coach or camp counselor type.

As usual, this is all amateur opinion and speculation *guys*.

Thanks for the insight.

I don't think the girls knew BG.

I use the phrase "hey guys" all the time, its just generic language.

I don't think the hike on the bridge was purposeful or arranged so the killer knew the girls were going on a hike.

IMHO I think BG is an opportunist, saw these two girls and decided to strike. Random.

I think he is older than 16-19 yrs old and tried to appear harmless by using the term "hey guys".

We can use as much sage smudging as we like here but the facts remain the facts.

This is moo and speculation.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think the foreigner means they would/should have known they couldn't have gone that far in an hour or so. Were family on Libby's Snapchat or only her friends?

We don’t know because neither LE nor the family have said.

 

[CCJD]

Run iPhone Data Recovery on computer and plug iPhone into computer with USB cable, and select the first recovery mode, “Recover from iOS Device” to scan your iPhone. Click “App Photos” to find Snapchat photos, to view all Snapchat photos that are deleted automatically (include sent Snapchat photos), then click “Next”.May 22, 2017

Pretty sure LE already figured that out. I promise to move on from Snapchat talk.

RSBM

Thanks! I'm sure LE figured it out, too. Good to know that those pics aren't lost forever.
(I know nothing about Snapchat - just what I've read here. My smartphone is in my desk collecting dust. My every day phone is a burner and a flip phone to boot. Cheap but fills my needs).

 

[sunshineray]

yes, do we know the legality of using familial dna to track down a suspect in Indiana? Because that might be why they are able to have DNA but aren't able to find a match. They obviously don't want to go down the GEDMatch route and then find all their evidence stemming from those discoveries tossed out.

It's an interesting topic for sure.
In an article from a year ago April:
"Arizona joined 11 other states — California, Colorado, Florida, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming — that have solved cold cases using familial DNA matching. Illinois and Louisiana are currently pondering whether to use the technique."
Then in January 2018 IN began collecting DNA from felony arrestees.
By July 2018 the IN police had arrested the killer of cold case April Tinsley not using felony DNA databases but done by private labs using long-range familial DNA testing and family tree analysis from DNA ancestry type sites. People in these private labs are teaching many LE agencies around the country, including the FBI how to do the same.

The legality of the searching is what seems to be "the talking point" now. If it's legal for say my cousin to put their DNA on a searchable site when they're putting my private DNA on there too, without asking my permission. That info is now being accessed by LE. Is it legal? I don't know but I'm sure that question will be tested in the courts soon.

False starts in search for Golden State Killer reveal the pitfalls of DNA testing

 

[MassGuy]

It's an interesting topic for sure.
In an article from a year ago April:
"Arizona joined 11 other states — California, Colorado, Florida, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming — that have solved cold cases using familial DNA matching. Illinois and Louisiana are currently pondering whether to use the technique."
Then in January 2018 IN began collecting DNA from felony arrestees.
By July 2018 the IN police had arrested the killer of cold case April Tinsley not using felony DNA databases but done by private labs using long-range familial DNA testing and family tree analysis from DNA ancestry type sites. People in these private labs are teaching many LE agencies around the country, including the FBI how to do the same.

The legality of the searching is what seems to be "the talking point" now. If it's legal for say my cousin to put their DNA on a searchable site when they're putting my private DNA on there too, without asking my permission. That info is now being accessed by LE. Is it legal? I don't know but I'm sure that question will be tested in the courts soon.

False starts in search for Golden State Killer reveal the pitfalls of DNA testing

Yeah, a challenge is coming.

Maryland lawmakers are currently trying to ban public databases being used for this purpose.

Hopefully it fails, as this is too important.

We’ve seen dozens of cases solved this way already, many of them decades old.

Most of these guys were never on law enforcement’s radar.

Golden State was just the beginning.

 

[Jabarn]

Thanks for the insight.

I don't think the girls knew BG.

I use the phrase "hey guys" all the time, its just generic language.

I don't think the hike on the bridge was purposeful or arranged so the killer knew the girls were going on a hike.

IMHO I think BG is an opportunist, saw these two girls and decided to strike. Random.

I think he is older than 16-19 yrs old and tried to appear harmless by using the term "hey guys".

We can use as much sage smudging as we like here but the facts remain the facts.

This is moo and speculation.

“Guys” could have been used because he didn’t know their names (agree).

 

[Sillybilly]

Please move on from the lengthy Snapchat convo and LE calling off the search. Neither is really very helpful in finding the perpetrator of this horrible crime.

Also note, it is not victim friendly to insinuate the family is in any way responsible for these girls not being found sooner.

Thanks.

 

[mtnlites]

Respectfully snipped for focus.
I agree with your post 100%. As I associate the voice with the newer sketch and listen to it over and over, it brings forth the following speculations for me.

"Guys". Immediately after the lengthier sound sample was released, and the word *guys* was added to it, I thought *familiar/familiarity*. I know many of you have offered up your own personal experiences with hearing, or using the term *guys*. However, staying laser focused on this particular use case, and attempting to remove the lens of our own personal experiences, it sounds to me like he is addressing these girls with not only authority, but *familiarity*. Albeit, these girls might not know him by name, but perhaps to some degree by sight. We don't know if there is any reference by the girls to recognizing him at all. We only have the brief sound sample to go by.

Expanding on this speculation, where might these girls know this Perp from, and why would they respond compliantly to his directive? We know that girls in particular, are socialized to be obedient, polite, and demure around adults. In addition, we have the added layer of responding to authority, regardless of age. The girls were walking where they weren't supposed to, and the Perp might have positioned himself as a Park Authority of some sort; bridge police. And of course, he could have had a weapon pointed at them to gain immediate compliance.

Yet, I think the "guys" is really important here. It's something a teacher / coach / referee would say to a group of kids. When I think of these two girls and who would have access to them, I keep going back to their sporting activities. The Perp could be a volunteer who supports the school's sporting activities, a part-time coaches assistant, a parent, or even someone like this from an opposing team they play against.

The Perp seemingly knew the girls were going hiking on the bridge, and tracked them on a *day off from school*. Either he had a day off from school too (either as a student or employee), or he took a sick day. I think it's the former; I speculate he is attached to the school system in some manner.

I strongly speculate the hike on the bridge that day was purposeful and prearranged. Others knew that girls were going to be there. One of them must have blasted that out on social media, and the Perp jumped in to action.

So, in summary, if forced to narrow in on my best speculation of who this Perp is, I'd say it's someone 16-19 years old, had the day off from school, and perhaps is a part time assistant coach or camp counselor type.

As usual, this is all amateur opinion and speculation *guys*.

There has been nothing to suggest that any of the girls' peers knew they were going to be there that day, much less that it was "blasted" out on social media. There's been nothing to support this in MSM or even in any of the other places that we're not allowed to discuss.

To me, "guys" is just a word. Servers in restaurants sometimes use it on tables in which none of the diners are known to them. Just about every YouTuber out there starts their videos with "Hey guys" or use it at least once in their videos (check out JayStation, Guava Juice, Morgz, DanTDM, ChadWildClay, etc). I use it at book signings when I don't know the name of the people whose books I am signing.

BG could very well have had a connection to the girls (I don't believe it, but I can accept that it's a possibility) but IMO the use of the word "guys" is not evidence of this. It's a casual, friendly word that can be used in a variety of manners in a variety of situations.

 

[KentuckyMama]

*raises hand*

I'm paranoid and am one barrel of dried rice short of being one of those folks on "Doomsday Preppers." Paranoia isn't logical.

I got you covered on the barrel of dried rice. My basement, one garage, and cellar are a thing of beauty. I don't think it's paranoia so much as extremely well prepared. Becoming a mom did that to me. I also wouldn't like likely volunteer my DNA. If LE really wanted it, I have no doubt they would find a way.

 

[EarthtoMel]

I agree. If anything other than the voice is significant to aid in identifying this person, I’m sure LE would mention it. Especially for others who only hear a scraping, abrasive sound such as I do.

To me, those sounds in between the words almost sound hollow. An almost echoing sound.

 

[mtnlites]

Thanks for the insight.

I don't think the girls knew BG.

I use the phrase "hey guys" all the time, its just generic language.

I don't think the hike on the bridge was purposeful or arranged so the killer knew the girls were going on a hike.

IMHO I think BG is an opportunist, saw these two girls and decided to strike. Random.

I think he is older than 16-19 yrs old and tried to appear harmless by using the term "hey guys".

We can use as much sage smudging as we like here but the facts remain the facts.

This is moo and speculation.

Agree. I also believe it was random and that he was an opportunist. There's not been anything to suggest that the girls knew that they were going to be there ahead of time. However, the families HAVE stated that they decided to go at kind of the last minute. We can speculate that others knew they were going earlier but, so far, there's nothing to back that up. It doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it's not taking into account the facts that we know.

I think the use of the word "guys" in this case is a red herring. I don't think it will have any bearing on the case, other than the fact that hopefully someone in his life will recognize the tone in which he said it. Without much new info to go on, IMO it's going to become like the red shirt in Mollie Tibbet's case.

 

[sunshineray]

Yeah, a challenge is coming.

Maryland lawmakers are currently trying to ban public databases being used for this purpose.

Hopefully it fails, as this is too important.

We’ve seen dozens of cases solved this way already, many of them decades old.

Most of these guys were never on law enforcement’s radar.

Golden State was just the beginning.

Yes and I'd heard the EU has also passed privacy law about it. Such a double edged sword, so good and yet so invasive also.

 

[mtnlites]

I got you covered on the barrel of dried rice. My basement, one garage, and cellar are a thing of beauty. I don't think it's paranoia so much as extremely well prepared. Becoming a mom did that to me. I also wouldn't like likely volunteer my DNA. If LE really wanted it, I have no doubt they would find a way.

Oh good. And it appears that we may be neighbors as well, so that's helpful. I hope you also can meat because I've not yet built up the courage to do that and I do like my protein.

The voluntary offering of DNA is a weird one for me. I'm split in half on it. My desire to help LE potentially solve a case clashes against the idea of having my biological matter in a national database. As I said earlier, though, if the family around me volunteered theirs then it shouldn't matter if I don't offer mine. If the perp was someone in our family, as long as someone in our line gave DNA then it should help LE at least narrow it down.

 

[MistyWaters]

Delete, moving on from search discussion.