Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

[Deleted member 102539]

Has anyone considered the possibility that someone who knew the girls targeted them, but commissioned some t h u g to do the actual killing?

Yes, since you asked!

 

[tresir2012]

Yes, but I do not recall LE asking about this vehicle specifically....MOO

At that time they wanted info on all vehicles. It is my opinion they have the vehicle info from then but discounted it for some reason. Two years later they have realised their mistake.

 

[busymcmoody]

IF the BG is on a mission for a "respected" and "alarming" thrill-kill, which will shake the whole state (and even other states) and will cause "Breaking News" in the media, then my question is:
What does he have of it, if he will never be caught? Nobody will ever know, who this self-styled "mastermind" is. That has to make him feeling unsatisfied in the long run. No reports about his brilliant photographic knowledge of areas, no reports of his brilliant different disguises, no reports of his brilliant escape routes (because all this is at least partly unknown, as long as he isn't caught and doesn't confess). Then WHY does he kill, fGs? Only in order to vent for the moment? A completely senseless, nasty mission, IF it is a mission. MOO

This is why some individuals start bragging about their "achievements" so there is hope that he told (or will tell) somebody.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

This is an old article about establishing alibis. March of 2017. Maybe somewhere during that time, an alibi was provided that doesn't seem to hold water now?
They also mention a command of investigators manning the tip line.

Police corroborating alibis given in Delphi killings

Just a note to add:

This article came out right after R.L.'s home was searched and he was taken into custody for violating his probation.

JMO

 

[tresir2012]

What possible reason would cause someone to hire an assassin to kill two pre-teen girls? The “person” who was screening tips? How about the 10-20 people who were manning the tip line? Why would one officer decide to throw away the magic tip that would solve the case? What possible reason would cause that to happen?

It could have been mistakes made. The article I quote later on shows they did screen for possible mistakes. They weren't all LEO officers manning the tip line initially. They were volunteers. Also there have been LEO's convicted of serious offences from both CaCo and neighbouring counties since the murders. There is always room for doubt IMO.

 

[tresir2012]

In the last photo Libby took, showing Abby on the bridge, there is a shadowy figure at the end of the Bridge, in the background, in the center. Could this be the Bridge Guy starting his crossing of the bridge? See attached photos.The 2nd photo is a blowup of part of the first photo. View attachment 214884 View attachment 214885

LE addressed this early on and said the shadows were posts at the end to prevent vehicles going on the bridge. So presumably they have checked this out IMO.

 

[tresir2012]

Just a note to add:

This article came out right after R.L.'s home was searched and he was taken into custody for violating his probation.

JMO

Interesting. Have wondered if it had anything to do with that as well.
JMO.

From the article in Charlot's link-

"Leazenby echoed reports that police might have unknowingly interviewed the girls' killer, which is another reason police are doubling back on the alibis that fall short of the mark."

"Riley gave a glimpse into the organization of this investigation.

For example, a team of investigators pore over the leads from the phone tip line — 844-459-5786 — and the email tip address — abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com. This team discards tips that already have been cleared and assigns investigators to follow up on new leads, Riley said.

Those investigators file reports after interviewing people, Riley said. Those reports, in turn, are read by other investigators, who often suggest there might be holes, omissions, lies or unasked questions. This sends the investigators back into the field for followup and more reports."

"This team discards tips that have already been cleared " concerns me a bit. A tip with new info could be discarded if the perp had been cleared by alibi perhaps.

 

[SeattleStew]

I thought this was an interesting arrest in Indiana. Dugger is quite a distance from Delphi. It is the young age of his victims that caught my eye, plus he resembles the NBG a bit. My own opinion.
Dugger Man Arrested for Sexual Battery

@Rossymom Thank you so much for this. I went ahead and started a thread for this case in "Crimes in the News". Under William Smith or search Dugger, Indiana.

Iowa - Dugger County William Smith Arrested for Battery/Strangulation of Two 17 y.o. Females

 

[tresir2012]

Did people continue to search through the night, I mean, were people in those woods overnight even when LE was not, as LE had called off the search?

Did LE cordon off the entire area, and post sentries?

Anybody know who called off the search that fateful night?

1. Yes.
2. No
3. Not sure but it was between ISP who denied the Amber alert and CaCo Sheriff I believe.

MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

The Sun is a pure tabloid, but somehow gets the info. They did a really good article on Serenity Dennard (runaway/lost 9 yr old from a remote Children's Home) as well. There is something off about the speed of the murders yet the care taken to place the bodies together and cover them. I can't put my finger on it, but a little more personal than a random attack.

I believe this was one of the similarities with the Watson murder. He was placed in a shallow hole in the ground and covered in twigs and leaves. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

IIRC
FBI Poster says Eye Color: Unknown
MOO

Poster says he turned himself in. He was also bailed Tuesday.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Poster says he turned himself in. He was also bailed Tuesday.

I think that’s bs...IMO those crimes are pretty freakin serious...he should not be out of jail! The victims are children SMH

 

[Torch Carrier]

Just thought of something-

Perhaps someone in LE took down info re: someone's alibi (was at work, for example) but didn't actually follow through on the steps required to confirm said alibi, because it was a well-known good ol' boy community member or even a friend of his.

At the time, he wouldn't in a million years doubt this guy's alibi ... but now, ... it's looking like this guy may be involved ... and oops! Crap! No, sorry, I signed off on it but never actually checked it out, just thought, you know, there was no need to, I mean, who would ever think- nah, it CAN'T be him...

 

[Torch Carrier]

Or maybe the big goof up was LE calling off the search that first night (and not cordoning off a marked perimeter, not taking sesrchers' names, perhaps) ... now seen as a major and irreversible blunder as the crime scene was as a result compromised ... ?

 

[Torch Carrier]

I know these are not new thoughts I'm posting, just pointing these ideas out as they may lead us to some revelation... or not. For Libby & Abby- Today Should Be THE Day.

 

[stattlich1]

Or maybe the big goof up was LE calling off the search that first night (and not cordoning off a marked perimeter, not taking sesrchers' names, perhaps) ... now seen as a major and irreversible blunder as the crime scene was as a result compromised ... ?

Hence, my sniffin' of a rat.

Am I to REALLY believe that circa 2017, 2 girls missing, last known place they were was at that bridge, and LE fails to secure the perimeter, leaving the search through the wee hours of the night to volunteers? Seriously???

 

[Kudzuu]

The Sun is a pure tabloid, but somehow gets the info. They did a really good article on Serenity Dennard (runaway/lost 9 yr old from a remote Children's Home) as well. There is something off about the speed of the murders yet the care taken to place the bodies together and cover them. I can't put my finger on it, but a little more personal than a random attack.

I wonder who actually found them. If it were a lone male, possibly BG returning to the scene, he knows the girls and that explains his DNA being at the crime scene. He could have possibly had time to stage the scene as well.

The shoe throws me though. It was found on the road? I've also heard it was in the mud by the creek. How did Libby lose one shoe? My opinion only.

 

[bowler]

1. Yes.
2. No
3. Not sure but it was between ISP who denied the Amber alert and CaCo Sheriff I believe.

MOO.

#2
A mix of peeps looking around, not an organized search per say, no foul play suspected and here we sit... moo

 

[flashy09]

I wonder who actually found them. If it were a lone male, possibly BG returning to the scene, he knows the girls and that explains his DNA being at the crime scene. He could have possibly had time to stage the scene as well.

The shoe throws me though. It was found on the road? I've also heard it was in the mud by the creek. How did Libby lose one shoe? My opinion only.

That's one detail that always haunts me a bit. I think it shows signs of a struggle, which as been alluded to with Libby especially. If he tackled to her the ground and she made a run for it, I can see him reaching out for her foot.

I also think it's very possible BG came back to search at night and went back to the crime scene to bury the girls. Maybe the bodies together is not so much staging, but just trying to make his "cover up" job easier and quicker so he could slip out ASAP.

 

[Lore Listener]

I think that’s bs...IMO those crimes are pretty freakin serious...he should not be out of jail! The victims are children SMH

We in the domestic violence field know that non-fatal strangulation is one of the most reliable risk predictors of an abuser killing his victim. We take it so seriously that we passed legislation in my state bumping non-fatal strangulation up to a felony. This is a dangerous, dangerous dude capable of killing young girls.
Non-fatal strangulation is an important risk factor for homicide of women

Rachel Louise Snyder's "No Visible Bruises" goes into this in great detail. An excellent long form journalism that dispels many common DV myths and misunderstandings while also being a true crime page-turner:
https://amzn.to/2qSZ4o5