2015.12.02 Discovery Documents - Batch 1

[AlwaysShocked]

I can't understand why CWW would tell Lubinski that he and Mark are the ones who found Teresa! I guess CWW thinks so highly of his own intelligence and so poorly of others' that he doesn't expect anyone to ever read newspapers, compare notes with anyone, and put two and two together. Hubris...I keep using this word to describe CWW. It fits.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

Because he's a liar who lies. That's what they do. All the time. No rhyme or reason for it. They just lie.

Re: Whether police confiscated the $40K. I've been doing a LOT of reading (catching up) on this case over the past three days and have not encountered anything that said this, other than someone here asking about it.

I cannot see where the police would have had any legal right to "confiscate" cash from the home. This was not a drug deal, it was a death scene. They might have given a friendly tip about the cash to the local IRS office, however.
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Almost forgot. Lubiski, Lubinski, whatever his name is. I don't trust him because the girlfriend of JR was told by CWW that they were going to Florida to steal some antiques. Like this was an "acceptable explantion". Lubinski is supposedly an antiques dealer, right? I usually don't trust small-time antiques dealers. I've had some bad experiences with them. I personally encountered one who was selling things that I KNEW were taken without permission from an elderly woman's house. (I believe the technical word for that is "stolen".) Anyway, I've learned to deal with larger, well-established dealers and even then I am very careful.

 

[KateB]

New thread for life insurance details and information. Posts have been moved over:

The Life Insurance Policies on Dr. Sievers

Thanks.

 

[DesiredJustice]

Bates Page #4

TS had a "Hinge fracture of the base of the skull."

I googled that and found this: Hinge’ fractures occur when the linear fracture passes across the middle cranial fossa, separating the skull base into 2 halves, and may be caused by a heavy blow to the side of the head (e.g. in motorcycle accidents).

Source: http://m.forensicmed.webnode.com/pathology/head-injury/skull-fracture/

I was thinking that maybe since she had bruising (or whatever medical terminology the ME used) on both her arms, legs and upper frontal area was from one of them holding her down. At first I thought maybe defensive wounds though.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

They used the medical term "ecchymosis" (singlular) and "ecchymoses" (plural). Basically this is what we call "black and blue marks". It is an indication that force was applied but not enough to break the skin. It is also usually an indication that the person was alive when said pressure was applied.
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In rereading docs - glad to see a tracer was put on the MS driven vehicle and also a tap on his phone. If there's a girlfriend and he talked to her or met with her, they'll have it.

 

[U2forever]

Woah, I just read the details of TS brutal brutal murder.
I have no words to express my feelings.
I also read about JR dousing his phone & tearing it up because of the crime scene pics.
Y'all are probably correct about the blackmail.



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[Bluedaisy100]

Because of his confoundingly blind loyalty to CWW, I'm thinking that Lubinski might be a verified friend of MS. He's got so much invested in believing every obvious lie. Psychopaths like to groom their enablers so that they never hear or see anything that contradicts their stories. Maybe he's being blackmailed by CWW. Human behavior can be mind boggling.

 

[KateB]

CWW didn't get back to Missouri until July 11, sounds more like a vacation than a trip to FL for a funeral. Telling Lubinski he and MS found TS? :maddening:

And he was immediately raided with a search warrant on July 12. LE's welcome home committee almost had to wait for him to get there to serve the search warrant?

 

[Dmacky]

And he was immediately raided with a search warrant on July 12. LE's welcome home committee almost had to wait for him to get there to serve the search warrant?

Good catch KateB! I read that twice and it still went over my head. :smile:
IIRC they got their first tip on July, 9th (Illinois) <modsnip>

* JMO ~ I think SMS was pulling Beach's leg TWICE about CWW already being a POI on July 6th, the day of TS's funeral.

**Credit to creepinskills also

**** So sorry KateB...I wasn't thinking.

 

[KateB]

Well, that's a statement from JL so may not be exactly accurate. The electronic evidence has a pretty good time stamp of when CWW most likely did arrive home from Florida on the first trip. I'll wait to see if there is more electronic evidence before I accept July 11 as a fact as his arrival home from the second trip.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Before people start blaming Lambinski. He was simply clearing his name because he does own a house in Florida that he only been to twice. Once before his wife died and once after she died.

But since Curtis does computer work for him and was in contact with him before the trip; Then Lambinski felt it was very necessary to clarify that Curtis was not going to Florida to stay at his property and Curtis was not going to Florida for anything on his (Lambinski ) behalf.

He said Curtis doesn't even know exactly where his Florida property is located. So I think Curtis could have tried to say he went to Lambinski property once he knew that they knew that he was in Florida.

So I don't blame Lambinski clearing his name and fully explaining everything for the purpose of disconnecting himself from Curtis misdeeds. Jmo

 

[creepingskills]

And he was immediately raided with a search warrant on July 12. LE's welcome home committee almost had to wait for him to get there to serve the search warrant?

Wow, great catch KateB! SMS did confirm to Beach that CWW was a POI in early July. Also, I don't know why but I'm chuckling at the fact that LCSO were already in Illinois interviewing the cooperating witness before CWW made it back to Missouri. Do we know when the cooperating witness contacted LE? My guess is early July.

 

[Russian Blue]

Before people start blaming Lambinski. He was simply clearing his name because he does own a house in Florida that he only been to twice. Once before his wife died and once after she died.

But since Curtis does computer work for him and was in contact with him before the trip; Then Lambinski felt it was very necessary to clarify that Curtis was not going to Florida to stay at his property and Curtis was not going to Florida for anything on his (Lambinski ) behalf.

He said Curtis doesn't even know exactly where his Florida property is located. So I think Curtis could have tried to say he went to Lambinski property once he knew that they knew that he was in Florida.

So I don't blame Lambinski clearing his name and fully explaining everything for the purpose of disconnecting himself from Curtis misdeeds. Jmo

Lubinski

 

[IQuestion]

CAMERA? Please tell me they didn't take pics of the murder! omg

bbm
That is what assassins do! I think it is called "double confirmation." "MS wanted proof that Teresa was dead before paying CWW, so they were going to give him that proof."?? (I suppose there are other ways, too...like using the victim's cell phone to confirm "job done", taking a personal item from the victim, mailing a copy of a newspaper article, etc.) Ironically, the very things demanded for proof are the very same things that could be used in a "police sting" as well as a possible "black mail" scenario in the future....or to ensure your employer NEVER spills the beans! CWW is really good at getting people to keep his secrets, huh?
As for JRR...I think Missouri's missing person's unit was about to experience another "DISAPPEAR-ICIDE" at the hands of CWW, (Assassinate the assassin meme?) The only reason, I BELIEVE, JRR is not dead, is because Florida LE, worked SO QUICKLY IN THEIR INVESTIGATION. (as KATE B stated earlier...."We are patiently waiting, here in Missouri, for you to return from your 10 day vaca in Sunny South Florida"!) CWW and his bride had only been back in Mo. for less than 24 hours when the raid occurred....CWW didn't have time to get rid of JRR, and he now knew LE was watching his every step!!

Oh and another question, "Does half of Hillsboro drive Kia's?" Didn't Taylor Shomaker tell people their KIA was damaged by a tree falling on it and they used the "insurance money" to buy the new van? Wow, I mean wow....because the reason for the first rental car (for Florida trip) was because AWW supposedly had an accident in a 2012 KIA, too! Could Taylor S. have been lying?

If AWW's family was buying groceries for this indigent couple, how in the world could they afford a 10 day extended trip to Florida??? How could the afford to keep a rental car for 10 days??
(I'm going to take a wild guess and assume his best buddy for life was generously footing the bill...??)

 

[Stopwatch]

Good catch KateB! I read that twice and it still went over my head. :smile:
IIRC they got their first tip on July, 9th (Illinois) <modsnip>

* JMO ~ I think SMS was pulling Beach's leg TWICE about CWW already being a POI on July 6th, the day of TS's funeral.

**Credit to creepinskills also

**** So sorry KateB...I wasn't thinking.

BBM - But wouldn't CWW also have been a POI the minute they saw the sloppy "secret" messages exchanged between him and MS from MS' phone? Seems like it was all converging very quickly, and if CTW had not said anything they would have arrived there very quickly.

But CTW would not have known that and certainly deserves tons of credit for doing the right thing, especially against a scary, all-around bad guy, who was known to be vindictive.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

bbm
That is what assassins do! I think it is called "double confirmation." "MS wanted proof that Teresa was dead before paying CWW, so they were going to give him that proof."?? (I suppose there are other ways, too...like using the victim's cell phone to confirm "job done", taking a personal item from the victim, mailing a copy of a newspaper article, etc.) Ironically, the very things demanded for proof are the very same things that could be used in a "police sting" as well as a possible "black mail" scenario in the future....or to ensure your employer NEVER spills the beans! CWW is really good at getting people to keep his secrets, huh?
As for JRR...I think Missouri's missing person's unit was about to experience another "DISAPPEAR-ICIDE" at the hands of CWW, (Assassinate the assassin meme?) The only reason, I BELIEVE, JRR is not dead, is because Florida LE, worked SO QUICKLY IN THEIR INVESTIGATION. (as KATE B stated earlier...."We are patiently waiting, here in Missouri, for you to return from your 10 day vaca in Sunny South Florida"!) CWW and his bride had only been back in Mo. for less than 24 hours when the raid occurred....CWW didn't have time to get rid of JRR, and he now knew LE was watching his every step!!

Oh and another question, "Does half of Hillsboro drive Kia's?" Didn't Taylor Shomaker tell people their KIA was damaged by a tree falling on it and they used the "insurance money" to buy the new van? Wow, I mean wow....because the reason for the first rental car (for Florida trip) was because AWW supposedly had an accident in a 2012 KIA, too! Could Taylor S. have been lying?

If AWW's family was buying groceries for this indigent couple, how in the world could they afford a 10 day extended trip to Florida??? How could the afford to keep a rental car for 10 days??
(I'm going to take a wild guess and assume his best buddy for life was generously footing the bill...??)

Are you thinking that the evening TS was murdered that CWW sent MS a photo of his dead wife via the burner phones? And then perhaps MS sent CWW the combination to a safe for payment??? Interesting theory. If true then there's not a lot of trust between CWW and MS.

 

[creepingskills]

BBM - But wouldn't CWW also have been a POI the minute they saw the sloppy "secret" messages exchanged between him and MS from MS' phone? Seems like it was all converging very quickly, and if CTW had not said anything they would have arrived there very quickly.

But CTW would not have known that and certainly deserves tons of credit for doing the right thing, especially against a scary, all-around bad guy, who was known to be vindictive.

IMO, yes.

July 2
LCSO downloads the contents of MS's cell phone, has records of MS text messages to CWW with references to burner phones. MS/CWW could've been considered POI as early as July 2.

July 6
TS's funeral. Referring back to SMS statement that as of this day, CWW was a POI makes sense in hindsight.

 

[Wing Ding]

Do you think that if these tips had not occurred and JR had not confessed, do you think they would have gotten away with it?


July 9: Lee detectives get a tip when from a person in Illinois that she might have some information about the crime.

July 10: The investigators fly to Missouri to interview the witness. Her information leads them to Curtis Wayne Wright and Jimmy Rodgers as suspects.

That's a very good question.

If there was no evidence at the crime scene to lead L.E. to a suspect, the investigation may have eventually worked its way out to Mark Sievers' bff in Missouri, but had enough time gone by, it is quite possible that phone records, rental car GPS activity and rest stop/store security surveillance video may have been purged from the system by then.

But one thing I know for sure from watching tv is when L.E. is on to something, they are like a dog with a bone and they don't ever let go until someone is convicted and behind bars, so were there no physical evidence against Wright to go on (only suspicion), maybe that's when L.E. starts tapping phones and taping people's conversations at Dennys.

It just seems like once they are on the right track, they somehow always get their man.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

bbm
That is what assassins do! I think it is called "double confirmation." "MS wanted proof that Teresa was dead before paying CWW, so they were going to give him that proof."?? (I suppose there are other ways, too...like using the victim's cell phone to confirm "job done", taking a personal item from the victim, mailing a copy of a newspaper article, etc.) Ironically, the very things demanded for proof are the very same things that could be used in a "police sting" as well as a possible "black mail" scenario in the future....or to ensure your employer NEVER spills the beans! CWW is really good at getting people to keep his secrets, huh?
As for JRR...I think Missouri's missing person's unit was about to experience another "DISAPPEAR-ICIDE" at the hands of CWW, (Assassinate the assassin meme?) The only reason, I BELIEVE, JRR is not dead, is because Florida LE, worked SO QUICKLY IN THEIR INVESTIGATION. (as KATE B stated earlier...."We are patiently waiting, here in Missouri, for you to return from your 10 day vaca in Sunny South Florida"!) CWW and his bride had only been back in Mo. for less than 24 hours when the raid occurred....CWW didn't have time to get rid of JRR, and he now knew LE was watching his every step!!

Oh and another question, "Does half of Hillsboro drive Kia's?" Didn't Taylor Shomaker tell people their KIA was damaged by a tree falling on it and they used the "insurance money" to buy the new van? Wow, I mean wow....because the reason for the first rental car (for Florida trip) was because AWW supposedly had an accident in a 2012 KIA, too! Could Taylor S. have been lying?

If AWW's family was buying groceries for this indigent couple, how in the world could they afford a 10 day extended trip to Florida??? How could the afford to keep a rental car for 10 days??
(I'm going to take a wild guess and assume his best buddy for life was generously footing the bill...??)

I think JR took pictures as a trophy, i.e he was proud of what bad deed he did. He was known for bragging about his crimes. A real nutcase.

Lubinski

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[No it's not]

Well, that's a statement from JL so may not be exactly accurate. The electronic evidence has a pretty good time stamp of when CWW most likely did arrive home from Florida on the first trip. I'll wait to see if there is more electronic evidence before I accept July 11 as a fact as his arrival home from the second trip.

B#2752

According to the bank statements, AW made a purchase with her debit card in High Springs FL on July 10th. From this occasion it takes app. 13 1/2 hrs- or 863.1 miles- of driving to Hillsboro MO.

-Nin

 

[irishchook]

B#2751

According to the bank statements, AW made a purchase with her debit card in High Springs FL on July 10th. From this occasion it takes app. 13 1/2 hrs- or 863.1 miles- of driving to Hillsboro MO.

-Nin

Do you know how much was the purchase? Sorry to make you re-sleuth.

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