Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12

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casesensitive said:
I can understand why it would be important for the kids to be informed of their parent's (let's assume obvious) deaths before the 911 call was made. Is it possible that the delay was in trying to reach JS which was unsuccessful? I can't see MS leaving a phone message stating the horrid details. I'm also not sure why he would lie about not knowing, if in fact it would come out that his aunt told him first. Maybe they couldn't hold off calling 911 after not being able to reach him.

TORONTO—Police found the bodies seated side by side near an indoor swimming pool. Two belts were looped around their necks and fastened to a railing.

Soon after, on that mid-December day, Jonathon Sherman spotted a social-media feed that said his father, pharmaceutical billionaire Barry Sherman, and his mother, Honey, had been found dead at home.

After a Billionaire and His Wife Are Found Dead, Their Children Try to Crack the Case
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Although JS may have spotted an SM feed stating his parents had been found dead - I don't think that necessarily implies that that is how he found out about it. He said at one point something like he and his sisters had waited for hours before being told anything officially by police, like I'm taking it even as far as official confirmation of whose bodies had been found inside the home. But that doesn't mean that he wasn't the first to know, via MS via the people who were at the home. To me, he was just making the point that news of his parents' deaths had reached the 'world' and was being announced 'unofficially' as 'fact', before the deaths had even been officially confirmed to immediate family by police. jmo.
 
casesensitive said:
I can understand why it would be important for the kids to be informed of their parent's (let's assume obvious) deaths before the 911 call was made. Is it possible that the delay was in trying to reach JS which was unsuccessful? I can't see MS leaving a phone message stating the horrid details. I'm also not sure why he would lie about not knowing, if in fact it would come out that his aunt told him first. Maybe they couldn't hold off calling 911 after not being able to reach him.

TORONTO—Police found the bodies seated side by side near an indoor swimming pool. Two belts were looped around their necks and fastened to a railing.

Soon after, on that mid-December day, Jonathon Sherman spotted a social-media feed that said his father, pharmaceutical billionaire Barry Sherman, and his mother, Honey, had been found dead at home.

After a Billionaire and His Wife Are Found Dead, Their Children Try to Crack the Case
Click to expand...
IIRC, it was said that MS 'had reached' JS 'first', so I took that to mean that she had actually spoken to him. I think they agreed between themselves who would contact which others. Is it possible they wanted to reach x certain people before calling 911, ie wait until you hear back from us confirming we've reached x, x, and x persons before you make that call. Wherever it was said that 'MS said to call 911'.. is it possible that piece of information was relayed to media, but perhaps that didn't actually happen until after the above-noted-potential confirmation? ie maybe MS did in fact tell ES to call 911, but it wasn't in that same first phonecall made by ES to MS?
 
nuff said:
[QUOTE="casesensitive, post: 15602107, member: 80977"
Soon after, on that mid-December day, Jonathon Sherman spotted a social-media feed that said his father, pharmaceutical billionaire Barry Sherman, and his mother, Honey, had been found dead at home.

After a Billionaire and His Wife Are Found Dead, Their Children Try to Crack the Case
Click to expand...

I think that statement was just media sensationalism. IMO the delay in calling 911 was simply due to the absence of anyone on the scene with clear authority to act, plus the need to reach MS etc by phone, to explain, to allow for shock etc. I may have forgotten, but in the end, do we know who did call 911? Is there a recording of the call?[/QUOTE]

In KD’s book, IIRC, ms reached js by phone as he was on his way to his cottage. So it is doubtful that he first heard the news on social media, just like you have pointed out.
Per kd, the cleaning lady eventually called 911; and apparently LE records all 911 calls.
 
deugirtni said:
IIRC, it was said that MS 'had reached' JS 'first', so I took that to mean that she had actually spoken to him. I think they agreed between themselves who would contact which others. Is it possible they wanted to reach x certain people before calling 911, ie wait until you hear back from us confirming we've reached x, x, and x persons before you make that call. Wherever it was said that 'MS said to call 911'.. is it possible that piece of information was relayed to media, but perhaps that didn't actually happen until after the above-noted-potential confirmation? ie maybe MS did in fact tell ES to call 911, but it wasn't in that same first phonecall made by ES to MS?
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It boggles my mind that MS could have possibly said to ES “ok, you have told me 2 people are hanging from their necks in the house near the pool, and you think it’s Barry and honey, and it looks like they’re dead. You tell me the potential buyers and their agent saw it too. Don’t call 911. I repeat, don’t call 911. I want to call all the family first, and Barry’s office, and his sister who is in Palm Springs, and other people too. Just Sit upstairs, in the house with the 2 dead bodies and wait for me to get back to you.”
Think about what a horrible position that put Es in, and the other 2 people that were there! We have been brought up to call 911 ASAP. Instead the people in that house were expected to follow orders from ms NOT to do so!
I’m sorry, if that happened I think it’s absolutely nuts.
 
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Would a delay in calling authorities help anyone if checks had been given but not yet cashed, or there was a commission owed, perhaps even an item of some sort was promised, but was still in the house, ect?
speculation, imo.
 
ldlager said:
It boggles my mind that MS could have possibly said to ES “ok, you have told me 2 people are hanging from their necks in the house near the pool, and you think it’s Barry and honey, and it looks like they’re dead. You tell me the potential buyers and their agent saw it too. Don’t call 911. I repeat, don’t call 911. I want to call all the family first, and Barry’s office, and his sister who is in Palm Springs, and other people too. Just Sit upstairs, in the house with the 2 dead bodies and wait for me to get back to you.”
Think about what a horrible position that put Es in, and the other 2 people that were there! We have been brought up to call 911 ASAP. Instead the people in that house were expected to follow orders from ms NOT to do so!
I’m sorry, if that happened I think it’s absolutely nuts.
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911 is really for emergencies. If they were obviously already dead, it wasn't a huge emergency. Letting the family know personally rather than finding out via news or SM is considerate, don't you think? Imagine how shocked and upset you'd be if it were you that found out via social media that your parents were dead and had tons of people calling you to find out what happened and you didn't know about it yet yourself? This situation/these people aren't everyday ordinary people like probably most people in the community, their news is newsworthy. Look how fast the news spread as it was? The only question for me is, why 90 minutes? It shouldn't take that long to make a few calls. And if someone wasn't reachable by cellphone for whatever reason, then it's likely they wouldn't hear something via SM either. imo.
 
deugirtni said:
911 is really for emergencies. If they were obviously already dead, it wasn't a huge emergency. Letting the family know personally rather than finding out via news or SM is considerate, don't you think? Imagine how shocked and upset you'd be if it were you that found out via social media that your parents were dead and had tons of people calling you to find out what happened and you didn't know about it yet yourself? This situation/these people aren't everyday ordinary people like probably most people in the community, their news is newsworthy. Look how fast the news spread as it was? The only question for me is, why 90 minutes? It shouldn't take that long to make a few calls. And if someone wasn't reachable by cellphone for whatever reason, then it's likely they wouldn't hear something via SM either. imo.
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Deugirtni, wE will have to agree to disagree on this point I think. There is no way that those 3 people in the house were worried that the family would find out via sm before a relative called them. We are only discussing this because in retrospect that’s what js stated in fact happened. But that wouldn’t be top of mind for those at the house, They knew ms was making family calls, I’m sure. At worst, im sure they would have expected that police would contact the next of kin, after finding bodies in the house, as that’s what LE would normally do, I believe.

Imo waiting 90 minutes only makes me wonder even more what happened in the intervening time inside that house.
 
Toronto Police Service :: To Serve and Protect

This is strange. On the tps website it says that tps responded at 12.46 pm to an emergency call and went to the Sherman’s house. Yet the bodies were evidently discovered around 10.15. Previous info was that police received the emergency call at 11.45 am. Now, if the tps website is correct, the call didn’t come in until about 2.5 hours after the bodies were discovered- not 90 minutes as has been previously discussed.
 
deugirtni said:
Considering the speed at which news travels nowadays, I can certainly understand they'd want to notify immediate family members first before word got into the public sphere. It would be terrible to find out your parents (or two unnamed individuals at your parents' home) were found deceased by way of social media, or a phonecall from a friend who'd seen something on SM. And given the social stature of the victims, I'm thinking word would have gotten loose as soon as emergency vehicles started arriving at the house. We are told that MS was able to reach JS first, I'm assuming right away.. and I can't remember who was supposed to tell the other three adult children.. but is it possible they wanted to make sure that all four of the kids heard the news from a family member before letting it loose to the public, knowing that the couple was dead and that nothing could be done? Although an hour and a half seems like a hella long time, especially considering that cellphones provide immediate access, and I'm assuming all of the kids use one? Still I agree that it should be explained, but I'm sure it *has* been explained to police.

Some might argue that if not a medical expert, one couldn't know for certain if the victims were deceased, but if it had already potentially been some 36 hours, presumably in a warm, humid environment - I'm pretty sure that most anyone would know for SURE they were dead.
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Yeah, I think this is the only non-nefarious explanation that makes sense. I wonder if it's possible that MS did tell them to call 911...but to wait two hours to make sure she had time to reach everyone? And the cleaning lady just was too freaked out to wait. But surely MS would know that would look suspicious...But I agree that LE must have asked for an explanation.

One at least part explanation for the delay was that maybe the realtor had to pretend everything was OK, or continue with the tour for the potential clients and reassure them. Although I can't imagine this took more than 1/2 hour or to be really generous, an hour?
 
ldlager said:
Toronto Police Service :: To Serve and Protect

This is strange. On the tps website it says that tps responded at 12.46 pm to an emergency call and went to the Sherman’s house. Yet the bodies were evidently discovered around 10.15. Previous info was that police received the emergency call at 11.45 am. Now, if the tps website is correct, the call didn’t come in until about 2.5 hours after the bodies were discovered- not 90 minutes as has been previously discussed.
Click to expand...

That’s really odd.F2A7BF9D-A24D-4647-B073-16C9A1EC4331.png

The timing as well: JS’s cottage was 2.5 hours away from the Shermans’ former home.

(Shoutout to the McLean’s writer who will see @ldlager ’s post and write about it.)

ETA: The TPS post reads ‘obviously deceased’.
 
ldlager said:
Toronto Police Service :: To Serve and Protect

This is strange. On the tps website it says that tps responded at 12.46 pm to an emergency call and went to the Sherman’s house. Yet the bodies were evidently discovered around 10.15. Previous info was that police received the emergency call at 11.45 am. Now, if the tps website is correct, the call didn’t come in until about 2.5 hours after the bodies were discovered- not 90 minutes as has been previously discussed.
Click to expand...

That's just plain weird. I have read in various media sources that LE was called at 11.43, 11.44, 11.46 am and just before noon. If this is a mistake on the TPS web site, it is pretty pathetic if they can't even get that right. If it's correct--it's even weirder.
 
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ldlager said:
Toronto Police Service :: To Serve and Protect

This is strange. On the tps website it says that tps responded at 12.46 pm to an emergency call and went to the Sherman’s house. Yet the bodies were evidently discovered around 10.15. Previous info was that police received the emergency call at 11.45 am. Now, if the tps website is correct, the call didn’t come in until about 2.5 hours after the bodies were discovered- not 90 minutes as has been previously discussed.
Click to expand...

Great catch! What made you look there?

Does anyone recall what was written there prior to ldlager finding this?

I remember andreww in 2018 noticing that their photos weren’t included on 2017’s unsolved list on the TPS website, and then Maclean’s picked up the story:

“Such shrouding of information is now the norm in a case many reflexively say will never be solved. Certainly, if you looked at the TPS website on the morning of December 13, it was as if the case never existed—or was not unsolved. It listed 32 unsolved 2017 homicides. Barry and Honey Sherman were nowhere to be found — until Maclean’s contacted the TPS to ask why the most talked about murder victims of 2017 were missing from the list. Hours later, the page was quietly updated. Barry and Honey Sherman are now at the top.”

Barry and Honey Sherman: Duelling investigations, high drama and still no answers - Macleans.ca
 
Lexiintoronto said:
Great catch! What made you look there?

Does anyone recall what was written there prior to ldlager finding this?

I remember andreww in 2018 noticing that their photos weren’t included on 2017’s unsolved list on the TPS website, and then Maclean’s picked up the story:

“Such shrouding of information is now the norm in a case many reflexively say will never be solved. Certainly, if you looked at the TPS website on the morning of December 13, it was as if the case never existed—or was not unsolved. It listed 32 unsolved 2017 homicides. Barry and Honey Sherman were nowhere to be found — until Maclean’s contacted the TPS to ask why the most talked about murder victims of 2017 were missing from the list. Hours later, the page was quietly updated. Barry and Honey Sherman are now at the top.”

Barry and Honey Sherman: Duelling investigations, high drama and still no answers - Macleans.ca
Click to expand...

Thanks. I looked there because I was searching to see if tps had anything published about whether to call 911 if you found a body. Then I saw the link to the unsolved homicide page and went there to see if anything had changed in the Sherman’s listings.

I suspect that TPS monitors this board. I think that because I recall that it was actually noted on this board earlier in the investigation by an excellent sleuther (sorry I can’t recall who posted it, perhaps it was Andreww) that the Sherman’s weren’t listed as homicides on the tps website. Then very shortly afterwards, they suddenly appeared on the homicide website. It’s also possible that McLeans monitors this ws discussion also, and that they called tps after reading the earlier ws posts about them not being listed on the tps website.

I can’t recall what the original tps homicide posting re he Sherman’s, and whether the website said the call came in at 11.45. It may be posted on this board in a much earlier thread. But the 12.46 time is inconsistent with anything I have read or understood previously. If it’s changed in the next little while back to 11.46 , we can probably conclude that tps is monitoring this discussion board.

Now, the 12.46 time opens an interesting avenue for sleuthing. IIRC, KD said in his book that JS was on his way to his cottage on the Friday morning when the bodies were discovered when he got a call, (presumably from MS I’m guessing), and that JS immediately turned around and drove back towards Toronto.

Now JS cottage is about a 2.15 hrs drive from the Sherman’s house. It was a Friday mid morning, so the traffic going back towards Toronto wouldn’t have been too bad once he got the phone call and turned his car around. Since he evidently hadn’t yet reached his cottage, he was less than 2.15 from the Sherman’s house. I am going to therefore sconclude that it appears that JS had enough time to drive to, and enter the house before 911 was called at about 12.46.

What that means, I don’t know. But it does seem to be possible.
All moo
 
ldlager said:
Thanks. I looked there because I was searching to see if tps had anything published about whether to call 911 if you found a body. Then I saw the link to the unsolved homicide page and went there to see if anything had changed in the Sherman’s listings.

I suspect that TPS monitors this board. I think that because I recall that it was actually noted on this board earlier in the investigation by an excellent sleuther (sorry I can’t recall who posted it, perhaps it was Andreww) that the Sherman’s weren’t listed as homicides on the tps website. Then very shortly afterwards, they suddenly appeared on the homicide website. It’s also possible that McLeans monitors this ws discussion also, and that they called tps after reading the earlier ws posts about them not being listed on the tps website.

I can’t recall what the original tps homicide posting re he Sherman’s, and whether the website said the call came in at 11.45. It may be posted on this board in a much earlier thread. But the 12.46 time is inconsistent with anything I have read or understood previously. If it’s changed in the next little while back to 11.46 , we can probably conclude that tps is monitoring this discussion board.

Now, the 12.46 time opens an interesting avenue for sleuthing. IIRC, KD said in his book that JS was on his way to his cottage on the Friday morning when the bodies were discovered when he got a call, (presumably from MS I’m guessing), and that JS immediately turned around and drove back towards Toronto.

Now JS cottage is about a 2.15 hrs drive from the Sherman’s house. It was a Friday mid morning, so the traffic going back towards Toronto wouldn’t have been too bad once he got the phone call and turned his car around. Since he evidently hadn’t yet reached his cottage, he was less than 2.15 from the Sherman’s house. I am going to therefore sconclude that it appears that JS had enough time to drive to, and enter the house before 911 was called at about 12.46.

What that means, I don’t know. But it does seem to be possible.
All moo
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Det. Sgt. Gomes said this:

“-At 11:44 am on Friday December the 15th, 2017, we responded to a 9-1-1 call to 50 Old Colony Road. Officers attended the address and located Barry Sherman and Honey Sherman, deceased.”
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7
 
MistyWaters said:
The first public tweet was at 12:30pm. By then the Sherman deaths had apparently already been reported on the news, according to comments on the Dr’s Twitter. So I think the appx 11:44am response by TPS is the correct timeline.

link to the twitter acct here-
Billionaire Apotex founder Barry Sherman and wife found dead in Toronto home
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It might be a matter of local time differences., but it seems the first tweet was at 4:30 pm local Toronto time.

956DE623-1ACC-48E7-8903-6EEC50D2856A.png

ETA: Maclean’s reported the tweet as being sent at 12:30 pm as you pointed out, but the link to the tweet it time-stamped 4:30pm.

“From the outset, the Sherman family’s clout and powerful connections shaped and shadowed both investigations. It was Ontario Health Minister Eric Hoskins, a family friend, not the police, who announced the Shermans’ deaths in a tweet sent at 12:30 p.m. on December 15th.”

Barry and Honey Sherman: Duelling investigations, high drama and still no answers - Macleans.ca
 
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