Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

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https://twitter.com/sueannlevy/status/944726424379834370

My feeling -- one shared by many in the Jewish community who have spoken with me -- is that this was a sophisticated hit and the cops are not up to the job of investigating that. I hope they prove me wrong.


Warmington........
My Feeling is it has been handled fine by the police who are investigating every avenue.
IMO THIS was a PROFESSIONAL HIT. BS WAS A PROUD MAN AND I DON'T t​HINK HE WOULD WORM OUT THIS WAY. I AM SORRY for THE CAP BLOCKS BUT MY COMP IS SCREWING UP SINCE THAT LAST POST I MADE
 
Okay, we have been having an intense discussion about this in my house tonight. We used my husband's belt to create a loop (not around anyone's neck!!) and figured that the remaining end could be tied around the railing. This made the length of the belt so short, however, that we cannot come up with any possible way for anyone to then be able to manuever their jacket down behind their back. I am imagining that getting the jacket into that position would involve a lot of wiggling, and I just can't see how it would be possible.

I hope this makes sense...I am going back to lurking now. Thank you all for the insightful comments!

try grabbing the jacket in centre back and pulling hard but slowly. it should slide down the arms. as we don't know if the jackets were pulled down first, try it as they're walking past you and without the belt. the couple could have been killed after the jackets were pulled to keep them from fighting/struggling.
 
No need to look for conspiracy theories when there's an easy-to-find revenge-suspect related to Barry.

Police called this a murder suicide after examining the scene. The family stomped their feet. Police are looking for a non-existent suspect and eating up a huge chunk of the police budget in the process.

If we believe the police, then Barry murdered his wife on Wednesday evening, dragged her body to the basement pool area, and strung her up on a railing with a belt. Some time later, he staged his own suicide right next to her.
Are you saying it's impossible for this to have been a double homicide simply because the police said it was a murder suicide?

That doesn't make sense. If this happened to my parents I would never believe the murder suicide deduction either. NEVER. And shame on this world we live in if it's being investigated as a double homicide only because this case is high profile. Why do you think there are so many falsley imprisoned persons? Because people don't always do their job right. Maybe not often, but enough so the we notice.
Of course, it is very possible they said murder/suicide to give the killer a false sense of security.

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IMO THIS was a PROFESSIONAL HIT. BS WAS A PROUD MAN AND I DON'T t​HINK HE WOULD WORM OUT THIS WAY. I AM SORRY for THE CAP BLOCKS BUT MY COMP IS SCREWING UP SINCE THAT LAST POST I MADE

OKAY.

As a murder suicide, this is not a 'worm thing'. It's simply a situation where he got angry, he strangled her, and he realized that his life as he knew it was gone. Rich or not, if his wife was found dead in the house and no signs of an intruder, he would be the prime suspect and he would be immediately arrested. Everything they did in their lives would be down the toilet and the only thing he would be remembered for was murdering his wife. By dragging her down to the pool so he could commit suicide, he did the honourable thing. He took responsibility for her death, and he preserved their reputations.
 
Okay, we have been having an intense discussion about this in my house tonight. We used my husband's belt to create a loop (not around anyone's neck!!) and figured that the remaining end could be tied around the railing. This made the length of the belt so short, however, that we cannot come up with any possible way for anyone to then be able to manuever their jacket down behind their back. I am imagining that getting the jacket into that position would involve a lot of wiggling, and I just can't see how it would be possible.

I hope this makes sense...I am going back to lurking now. Thank you all for the insightful comments!
I think the belt is buckled as normal and the railing is inside the loop that automatically forms, then a person puts the same loop over their head.

Also just to answer another post - I'm from Wisconsin and never locked my doors until it was time to go to bed. UNTIL I joined Websleuths! :)

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
Are you saying it's impossible for this to have been a double homicide simply because the police said it was a murder suicide?

That doesn't make sense. If this happened to my parents I would never believe the murder suicide deduction either. NEVER. And shame on this world we live in if it's being investigated as a double homicide only because this case is high profile. Why do you think there are so many falsley imprisoned persons? Because people don't always do their job right. Maybe not often, but enough so the we notice.
Of course, it is very possible they said murder/suicide to give the killer a false sense of security.

No, I'm saying that the police have already released their findings. They called this a murder suicide.

There is absolutely nothing to support a theory of double murder, so there's no reason to run down rabbit holes.

I'm not aware of anyone genuinely claiming to be falsely imprisoned in Canada. Can you offer a name of someone who claims to have been falsely imprisoned last year, or maybe, let's say, the last five years. I don't mean every person in the prison system, I mean someone who may legitimately be falsely imprisoned in Canada and where there are legal documents to read.
 
Some thoughts:

Re; Clinton link = there is an alt right group that tries to push the narrative of any high profile case to link to the Clintons. I personally believe this is politically motivated and nonsense.

As for the unlocked doors, I live in Toronto and everyone locks their doors. Now for the reference to the Shermans, I am speculating that if the basement door leads to the garage then they may not lock that door if the garage requires a remote.

As I recall, there was a dusting of snow on the Wednesday night so it is perfectly normal for people to wear boots. (Men will sometimes wear rubber coverings for their shoes ). If they were at the site to meet the architect, then boots are not unreasonable in winter. Boots doesn't have to mean giant furry snowboots.

Without going into details, I have had a family member murdered with no forced entry. The Toronto Police initially tried to push a narrative that was completely incorrect but after some proper investigation they did solve the crime. I have family members who are very familiar with the Shermans and the concept of him murdering his wife is inconceivable.

What puzzles me about the murder-suicide scenario is that with the information we have been provided either through unconfirmed sources or police, they were both strangled with men's belts and both with their jackets/coats rolled down around their arms in the back. If Honey was killed somewhere else, then it would still have to be by ligature likely the belt she was hanged by otherwise there would be signs on her body of being hit or strangled with another item other than the belt that was found around her neck. The detailed autopsy would give more info.

I also think it is odd that there was staff in the house during the day. From my understanding the staff said they dont' go to the basement. So it would mean that they have access to get into the house without assistance from the Shermans. Does the staff have a key? Does the house have a coded door lock that the staff have the code to? Was there a real estate padded lock on the door for the real estate agent to access? Wasn't there an open house when the house was put on the market. Couldn't a potential killer come to the open house to spec the house to plan the crime? Could a staff member have made sure that a specific door was unlocked when they went home to deliberately allow someone access to the house?

I find if very odd that the staff would come in on Thursday and Friday (assuming the Shermans were killed Wednesday night) and not see the Shermans in the house but see that both their cars are parked outside in the driveway by the door. I hear that staff say that they don't go to the basement but you would think at some point within 2 days of not seeing the owners, someone would wander downstairs. I just find that there are many possibilities for entry without force. Also being Hannukah, it is easy for someone to gain access by "delivery of flowers" or something of that sort.

IMO
 
No, I'm saying that the police have already released their findings. They called this a murder suicide.

There is absolutely nothing to support a theory of double murder, so there's no reason to run down rabbit holes.

I'm not aware of anyone genuinely claiming to be falsely imprisoned in Canada. Can you offer a name of someone who claims to have been falsely imprisoned last year, or maybe, let's say, the last five years. I don't mean every person in the prison system, I mean someone who may legitimately be falsely imprisoned in Canada and where there are legal documents to read.
How would you know if there's nothing to support the theory of a double homicide when nothing has been released?

And no I don't know who in Canada is currently falsley imprisoned, but you could Google it if you like.

There is an entire organization that helps people falsley imprisoned get exonerated http://innocencecanada.com/?ref=aidwyc

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Its been nearly a week since the Homicide Squad was called in. The police probably have an idea of what occurred, possibly more autopsy results are in and IMO they are waiting, out of respect for the family, before telling them anything. The family will still be sitting Shiva, not sure when that ends but it wouldn't surprise me if thats when the police approach the family. Depending on the information given, the family may or may not withhold the information. If its a suicide/murder, we won't be told much, maybe just that the case has been closed.
If its a double homicide, we will, probably be told that its a double homicide and might be given a bit of information as to why they believe that to be the case.

This is such a bizarre case, I wouldn't be surprised if it takes quite some time to solve it. The perps have had at least a week to get away.
IMO
 
Thank you for posting this link. The gentleman I saw on tv was not 87 yrs old. I thought he lived next door or said he did and he stated that the side door was always open too. Seems a lot of people were aware of it. As I said before, the biggest mistake of their lives, probably.

I posted the link with info to help you clarify the "rubin" gentleman. If it was a TV showing then the link and info I posted was not the same. I was basing my info on a credible source (CBC Radio Canada).

In any case: it seems a lot of Sherman friends are making comments to media - anonymous at times. This might be the person of which you are referring who spoke about the side door always unlocked? Anonymous source. https://www.reuters.com/article/can...emorial-after-mysterious-deaths-idUSL1N1OK2G2

Neighbours: https://ontario.411numbers-canada.com/street-addresses/toronto/old-colony-rd.html
 
Some thoughts:

Re; Clinton link = there is an alt right group that tries to push the narrative of any high profile case to link to the Clintons. I personally believe this is politically motivated and nonsense.

As for the unlocked doors, I live in Toronto and everyone locks their doors. Now for the reference to the Shermans, I am speculating that if the basement door leads to the garage then they may not lock that door if the garage requires a remote.

As I recall, there was a dusting of snow on the Wednesday night so it is perfectly normal for people to wear boots. (Men will sometimes wear rubber coverings for their shoes ). If they were at the site to meet the architect, then boots are not unreasonable in winter. Boots doesn't have to mean giant furry snowboots.

Without going into details, I have had a family member murdered with no forced entry. The Toronto Police initially tried to push a narrative that was completely incorrect but after some proper investigation they did solve the crime. I have family members who are very familiar with the Shermans and the concept of him murdering his wife is inconceivable.

What puzzles me about the murder-suicide scenario is that with the information we have been provided either through unconfirmed sources or police, they were both strangled with men's belts and both with their jackets/coats rolled down around their arms in the back. If Honey was killed somewhere else, then it would still have to be by ligature likely the belt she was hanged by otherwise there would be signs on her body of being hit or strangled with another item other than the belt that was found around her neck. The detailed autopsy would give more info.

I also think it is odd that there was staff in the house during the day. From my understanding the staff said they dont' go to the basement. So it would mean that they have access to get into the house without assistance from the Shermans. Does the staff have a key? Does the house have a coded door lock that the staff have the code to? Was there a real estate padded lock on the door for the real estate agent to access? Wasn't there an open house when the house was put on the market. Couldn't a potential killer come to the open house to spec the house to plan the crime? Could a staff member have made sure that a specific door was unlocked when they went home to deliberately allow someone access to the house?

I find if very odd that the staff would come in on Thursday and Friday (assuming the Shermans were killed Wednesday night) and not see the Shermans in the house but see that both their cars are parked outside in the driveway by the door. I hear that staff say that they don't go to the basement but you would think at some point within 2 days of not seeing the owners, someone would wander downstairs. I just find that there are many possibilities for entry without force. Also being Hannukah, it is easy for someone to gain access by "delivery of flowers" or something of that sort.

IMO

It may be inconceivable to you and people who knew them, but no one knows exactly what goes on in a relationship and another person's mind.

'He just wouldn't do that', coming from family and friends is not a defence, as we have seen over and over again.
 
No we don't know what goes on in people's minds however the majority of murder suicides do have indicating signs prior even though most people may not realize it or ignore them. My reason for mentioning that it is surprising that the police would put this out so early in the case is that they had not spoken to friends and family at that point which is an important factor when investigating a high profile incident of someone who seemed to have a lot of potential enemies. While friends and families are unlikely to come out and say "yeah he did it", the police could have taken time to investigate if BS had depression or financial issues or if there were any tensions between the couple. But it appears they didn't do that and it was irresponsible to announce that conclusion before that or prior to the autopsy. Now police are in a bad spot as they either have to admit that they were incorrect or that the public will doubt them as they rushed to that conclusion with out concrete evidence.
 
No we don't know what goes on in people's minds however the majority of murder suicides do have indicating signs prior even though most people may not realize it or ignore them. My reason for mentioning that it is surprising that the police would put this out so early in the case is that they had not spoken to friends and family at that point which is an important factor when investigating a high profile incident of someone who seemed to have a lot of potential enemies. While friends and families are unlikely to come out and say "yeah he did it", the police could have taken time to investigate if BS had depression or financial issues or if there were any tensions between the couple. But it appears they didn't do that and it was irresponsible to announce that conclusion before that or prior to the autopsy. Now police are in a bad spot as they either have to admit that they were incorrect or that the public will doubt them as they rushed to that conclusion with out concrete evidence.

The police were at the death scene and I think that they had to have pretty strong circumstantial evidence to issue that statement.
 
Some thoughts:

Re; Clinton link = there is an alt right group that tries to push the narrative of any high profile case to link to the Clintons. I personally believe this is politically motivated and nonsense.

As for the unlocked doors, I live in Toronto and everyone locks their doors. Now for the reference to the Shermans, I am speculating that if the basement door leads to the garage then they may not lock that door if the garage requires a remote.

As I recall, there was a dusting of snow on the Wednesday night so it is perfectly normal for people to wear boots. (Men will sometimes wear rubber coverings for their shoes ). If they were at the site to meet the architect, then boots are not unreasonable in winter. Boots doesn't have to mean giant furry snowboots.

Without going into details, I have had a family member murdered with no forced entry. The Toronto Police initially tried to push a narrative that was completely incorrect but after some proper investigation they did solve the crime. I have family members who are very familiar with the Shermans and the concept of him murdering his wife is inconceivable.

What puzzles me about the murder-suicide scenario is that with the information we have been provided either through unconfirmed sources or police, they were both strangled with men's belts and both with their jackets/coats rolled down around their arms in the back. If Honey was killed somewhere else, then it would still have to be by ligature likely the belt she was hanged by otherwise there would be signs on her body of being hit or strangled with another item other than the belt that was found around her neck. The detailed autopsy would give more info.

I also think it is odd that there was staff in the house during the day. From my understanding the staff said they dont' go to the basement. So it would mean that they have access to get into the house without assistance from the Shermans. Does the staff have a key? Does the house have a coded door lock that the staff have the code to? Was there a real estate padded lock on the door for the real estate agent to access? Wasn't there an open house when the house was put on the market. Couldn't a potential killer come to the open house to spec the house to plan the crime? Could a staff member have made sure that a specific door was unlocked when they went home to deliberately allow someone access to the house?

I find if very odd that the staff would come in on Thursday and Friday (assuming the Shermans were killed Wednesday night) and not see the Shermans in the house but see that both their cars are parked outside in the driveway by the door. I hear that staff say that they don't go to the basement but you would think at some point within 2 days of not seeing the owners, someone would wander downstairs. I just find that there are many possibilities for entry without force. Also being Hannukah, it is easy for someone to gain access by "delivery of flowers" or something of that sort.

IMO

I don't think you can make a generalization that 'everyone locks their doors', evidently they do not. I also live in Toronto and one of our doors was unlocked for so long that when one grown child came home and found it locked, stated "I didn't even know it HAD a lock!' She was 30 years old and had never found that door locked, at any time of night or day for her whole life. It seems that many people knew the Shermans side door was 'always open'. I have many neighbours who leave doors open, at least in the daytime. We always have the front door locked and have been told by one neighbour that we are paranoid because we don't leave that one open too. Seriously. They are now locked at night.
 
The police were at the death scene and I think that they had to have pretty strong circumstantial evidence to issue that statement.

Was the coroner at the scene before the bodies were removed?
 
Without any autopsy or toxicology or interviewing people or checking video cameras, I am not sure that they had the full evidence to come to a public conclusion like that. After all police did the same with Wayne Millard by declaring his death a suicide and now there will be a trial for his murder. Police make mistakes like the rest of us.
 
When the bodies were first found, I think the police jumped the gun with their comment about suicide/murder because there are so many domestics where the woman is dead and the husband has killed her. They should have called it suspicious and waited for autopsy results and done some investigating before making that statement. I understand the family heard about it from the media and thats so very wrong.

The media doesn't help, they push and push, even when the police say 'no comment' certain reporters become more aggressive. I find that very hard to stomach as they have zero consideration for the family members. Every victim is someones mother, father, brother, sister, aunt etc, etc.

Its all about a story, no compassion whatsoever.
 
Was the coroner at the scene before the bodies were removed?

I would imagine forensics were. Where I live a coroner does not go to crime scenes, forensic staff do, a medical examiner does the autopsy and the coroner presents the findings. I am not sure of the methodology in Canada.
 
When the bodies were first found, I think the police jumped the gun with their comment about suicide/murder because there are so many domestics where the woman is dead and the husband has killed her. They should have called it suspicious and waited for autopsy results and done some investigating before making that statement. I understand the family heard about it from the media and thats so very wrong.

The media doesn't help, they push and push, even when the police say 'no comment' certain reporters become more aggressive. I find that very hard to stomach as they have zero consideration for the family members. Every victim is someones mother, father, brother, sister, aunt etc, etc.

Its all about a story, no compassion whatsoever.

I think that everyone would agree with you about that. Unforgivable.
 
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