Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

[otto]

No evidence of a break in does not equal no murder. There are many scenarios that would have allowed for that. Surprising HS in the driveway and using the garage door opener is the most likely as far as I'm concerned, and easily done. Also surprising her at the door and shoving their way in. Or knowing her husband was expected shortly, she may have left the front door unlocked for him.
You may not care what was said about the side door but I believe at least 2 people have been quoted saying it, and I tend to believe victim's friends. But what makes you think they had enough sense to lock it or remember to lock it when leaving for a meeting for that matter? It doesn't sound like they were concerned about security at all.

I'm not sure why you're using the term "problematic situation" I don't believe I said that at all. However, I did provide a website that contains a list of 21 people (Canadians) who were eventually exonerated. I take it you didn't read any of their stories (so far none of the ones I've read had anything to do with DNA).

From that website:

"Of the 94 cases currently under review, 78 are under review as part of our assessment process. Sixteen have been adopted by the Innocence Canada Board of Directors, meaning we have satisfied ourselves that the individual is innocent and legal work is ongoing."

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Sure. No evidence of a break in means that no one else was in the house.

So the couple are bumbling fools who no longer know how to lock the front door, but they are managing billion dollar companies and demolishing perfectly good houses close to downtown?

The side door was allegedly left open to nursing staff for Canadian style free home care, but that doesn't mean that the billionaire and his wife didn't know how to lock the door at night.

I don't really care about convicted people who were exonerated due to DNA evidence. The suggestion was that Canada has incarcerated innocent people, and I have only requested their names and links to legal documents to support this claim. No one denies that Canadians have been falsely convicted, but Canada has done everything possible to correct the error with millions of dollars - an option that is not available in the USA. Is there a post-dna innocent convicted criminal evidence who is in the system today? If so, please post names and links to legal documents. Otherwise, please do not imply that Canada's jails are full of innocent people.

 

[otto]

I'm older ...but Steven Truscott and David Milgard come to mind for me

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Yes, and that is why I requested post-dna science convictions. It is dna science that proved their innocence.

 

[Lilibet]

I just realized LE never said it was a murder-suicide. Why did the media run with that?

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/much-loved-billionaire-couple-found-dead-in-north-york-mansion

"Officially, Toronto Police aren’t commenting on the tragedy — other than to call the deaths of one of Canada’s richest couples “suspicious.”"

"Bott said homicide detectives will conduct a full investigation and all avenues will be explored."

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BBM

MSM reported a murder-suicide because “sources” said it, as the rest of the article mentions. Everything in the article, except what you have quoted above, is “sources”, “sources close to the case” and “police sources.” As we’ve discussed before, reporters have sources who will speak to them unofficially. It’s our call individually as to how much credence we give those sources. Reporters usually don’t risk their jobs and credibility making up stories.

 

[otto]

I just realized LE never said it was a murder-suicide. Why did the media run with that?

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/much-loved-billionaire-couple-found-dead-in-north-york-mansion

"Officially, Toronto Police aren’t commenting on the tragedy — other than to call the deaths of one of Canada’s richest couples “suspicious.”"

"Bott said homicide detectives will conduct a full investigation and all avenues will be explored."

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Oh?

"Toronto police are investigating the possibility that the deaths of billionaire Barry Sherman and his wife were a murder-suicide — a theory the family is rejecting as “irresponsible” rumors.

The bodies of Sherman, 75, and his wife, Honey, were found in their North York mansion just before noon Friday.

Officially, Toronto police have released little information about the deaths, beyond that they were deemed suspicious. But police sources confirm to the Star that police are now probing the possibility that they were a murder-suicide."

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...gating-death-of-billionaire-and-his-wife.html

 

[Jennifer17]

I just realized LE never said it was a murder-suicide. Why did the media run with that?

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/much-loved-billionaire-couple-found-dead-in-north-york-mansion

"Officially, Toronto Police aren’t commenting on the tragedy — other than to call the deaths of one of Canada’s richest couples “suspicious.”"

"Bott said homicide detectives will conduct a full investigation and all avenues will be explored."

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However, sources say police were working Friday night on the theory the demise of the billionaire Apotex founder and his wife, which has stunned the city and those who knew them, may have been a murder-suicide.
From the same article that you posted.

'

 

[gregjrichards]

“The Canadian billionaire couple whose deaths are being investigated as a murder-suicide after their bodies were found hanging from poolside railings were dealing with financial woes.

The bodies of Barry, 75, and Honey Sherman, 70, were discovered last week by their realtor after they had recently put their home on the market for $5.4million. The New York Post reports the couple was entangled in dozens of lawsuits, a government investigation and mounting financial pressures.

The Shermans have donated millions in past years to hospitals and schools only donated $66,000 in 2016 according to their tax filings. In 2015 The Sherman Family Foundation didn't donate anything.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...inancial-straights-hanging.html#ixzz529rgqkXi

The Daily Mail is now claiming this New York Post nonsense. I don’t believe they were about to lose everything unless they were victims of a Madoof style Ponzi scheme which I highly doubt.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Insurance payout would depend on policy. If she died first, which is what we've heard, then everything goes to him. If he commits suicide, then the legitimacy of the policy is in question. Most insurance policies do not accept suicide as a good reason to pay a large amount of money to the estate - however, Barry liked litigation, so if one of the children is equally inclined to litigate and argue everything to the "win", then perhaps the estate will eventually pay the children on a policy where the policy holder murdered his wife and then committed suicide.

Barry recognized that none of his children or cousins were interested or capable of being in the pharmaceutical business, but there's always litigation to get rich. Maybe one of his children learned how to use law to get rich.

Insurance companies payout when a suicide. As long as the suicide doesn’t happen in the first year. However, some companies it might be two years. My insurance is a very reputable company, and it is after one year. One has a choice of whom they want as beneficiaries. Can’t assume the insurance payout goes to each other ie. HS and BS

 

[2Hope4]

I don't know about the staging as a murder. IMO, the way the bodies were found isn't a murder staging, but a suicide staging. I don't know if had a suicide pact, whether one killed the other and then committed suicide, or if they were both murdered. If he wanted a staged murder, then signs of a breakin, signs of a struggle, etc would have been more likely to have family and LE believing in murder.

We've seen single cases of murder staged as a suicide. One that comes to mind is Barton Corbin, killed his college girlfriend, staged a suicide with a pistol, got away with it. Years later he married. When their marriage failed, and divorce was imminent, he also killed her by gunshot, and staged a suicide. In both cases, the LE ruled suicide, and then after the wife was killed, and family protested that it was not a suicide, it was investigated, and he now sits in prison for both murders.

 

[2Hope4]

Yesterday I kept wondering how the heck you tie a belt around the railing and then hang yourself. It then dawned on me. If you've ever saddled a horse with a western saddle, you cinch a leather strap called a latigo through the cinch ring and knot it. I don't know that's how the belt was attached to the railing, but it makes sense in my head. If the belt was first threaded through the belt buckle, and tightened around the neck, then the long loose belt end could then be tied around the railing like a latigo.

http://www.western-saddle-guide.com/tie-a-western-cinch.html

 

[Lilibet]

I don't know about the staging as a murder. IMO, the way the bodies were found isn't a murder staging, but a suicide staging. I don't know if had a suicide pact, whether one killed the other and then committed suicide, or if they were both murdered. If he wanted a staged murder, then signs of a breakin, signs of a struggle, etc would have been more likely to have family and LE believing in murder.

We've seen single cases of murder staged as a suicide. One that comes to mind is Barton Corbin, killed his college girlfriend, staged a suicide with a pistol, got away with it. Years later he married. When their marriage failed, and divorce was imminent, he also killed her by gunshot, and staged a suicide. In both cases, the LE ruled suicide, and then after the wife was killed, and family protested that it was not a suicide, it was investigated, and he now sits in prison for both murders.

BBM

If he staged it, I think he intended it to look like suicide. But I also think he knew that LE would call it murder-suicide. However, I think he also knew that his kids (and probably his friends) would never accept either suicide or murder-suicide, but only murder, no matter what LE said...that’s very common with family and friends. So he really didn’t have to go to the trouble to stage an elaborate murder scene IMO.

 

[2Hope4]

Forgive my lack of memory at this moment... when were they last seen and when were the found? The two photos linked above of two bodies on a stretcher has me wondering. I think the angle of the photos are perhaps making it seem one is more rigid than the other. When I enlarge the photos, the one that looks flat isn't. It almost looks like the bodies are laying on their stomach instead of the back. BUT, it maybe that I'm thinking about the arms behind the back that is swaying my perception.

 

[2Hope4]

As for Barry thinking what family, friends, staff, or LE would think...from what I have been reading in the media links posted throughout this case, it doesn't seem to me that Barry really gave a flying flip what anyone thought. But that's JMO... he would be dead, why would he care what anyone thought?

 

[Researchnut]

IMO Pinned facts, and pinned theories would be great here.The threads are too long and convoluted.
When I first heard about this case I immediately researched the odds.
Odds matter, it's how insurance companies determine if you are worth ensuring. When you have BILLIONS of dollars insurance really is not an issue. Your will is though.
The TPS does NOt have the resources to carry this to the end. This should be an RCMP investigation.JMO.

 

[PaulR]

Oh?

"Toronto police are investigating the possibility that the deaths of billionaire Barry Sherman and his wife were a murder-suicide — a theory the family is rejecting as “irresponsible” rumors.

The bodies of Sherman, 75, and his wife, Honey, were found in their North York mansion just before noon Friday.

Officially, Toronto police have released little information about the deaths, beyond that they were deemed suspicious. But police sources confirm to the Star that police are now probing the possibility that they were a murder-suicide."

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...gating-death-of-billionaire-and-his-wife.html

Yes, they are probing the possibility that it was a murder-suicide. That is not saying the police think it was murder-suicide, but they should investigate it just like they should investigate whether it could have been a double homicide.

 

[DarkSkink]

The belts. They were on scene, and according to news reports they deceased had their heads in the belts.

As for what is in the sewer - police were pressured to investigate these deaths as a double homicide, so that's what they are doing. If this was a real murder, where a weapon may have been used for coercion, police would be searching the sewer to see if a weapon was tossed near the home. It's a huge expense to the Toronto police force to satisfy the emotional needs of a wealthy family.

I suspect it is more to satisfy any future litigation brought by those who can afford it. The public display, on the record, was likely calculated rather than emotional.

 

[Lilibet]

As for Barry thinking what family, friends, staff, or LE would think...from what I have been reading in the media links posted throughout this case, it doesn't seem to me that Barry really gave a flying flip what anyone thought. But that's JMO... he would be dead, why would he care what anyone thought?

I agree that he probably wasn’t worried about what the public thought. But I was thinking that he probably cared about the burden his family would carry. It would be more painful for them to think their Dad killed their Mom than to think they were murdered IMO...not that either scenario is painless. But I’m still sitting on the fence tossing out ideas.

 

[gregjrichards]

Do you think Barry’s possible motive if this was a murder/suicide that he was unhappy with what Honey would do with the money that he worked so hard for if he died first? That he wanted to ensure she never got the opportunity to in his eyes waste it.

 

[Lilibet]

Do you think Barry’s possible motive if this was a murder/suicide that he was unhappy with what Honey would do with the money that he worked so hard for if he died first? That he wanted to ensure she never got the opportunity to in his eyes waste it.

Personally, I don’t think his possible motive would be that deep. I think it was more likely manslaughter than murder...not planned...it just happened during a stupid argument. Now, what was simmering to cause an argument is anyone’s guess, but it could have been just a momentary burst of anger caused by stress, exhaustion or something trivial. Realizing what he’d done, he may not have wanted to go on and came up with the staged suicides.

 

[2Hope4]

Who owns the company with the death of Barry? Maybe there is a financial basis to this.

Canadian drugmaker Apotex Inc. said it will spend $184 million to expand its facilities in South Florida and create 150 new jobs.

The Toronto-based maker of generic drugs, which said it has annual sales of about $2 billion, will continue to operate two existing facilities in Florida.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...invest-184-million-to-expand-in-south-florida

Good Gracious Meds! They apparently have businesses in Belgium, Australia, Czech, France, USA, Spain, Netherlands, Mexico, India, UK
http://www.pharmaceutical-business-review.com/companies/apotex_inc#

 

[nuff]

I'm older ...but Steven Truscott and David Milgard come to mind for me

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And Robert Baltovich, for the Elizabeth Bain killing, never solved after his release but could have been Bernardo.