CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #42 *ARREST*

[BingoBongo]

I completely disagree. These two had been planning to kill KB for months. KK drove hundreds upon hundreds of miles to kill KB on three separate occasions, but chickened out each time. She eventually said she couldn't do it, so he pouted and accepted he would have to do it himself.

He might have been in a rage when he did it---seems it didn't take much to get him to that point--- but in no way was it a emotional, heat of the moment, rage-killing---it was completely premeditated with months of planning and discussing the means of killing KB with a co-conspirator. For whatever reason, he felt that 11/22 was the perfect day and time to put those plans into motion.

Many murderers are premeditated but not carried through UNTIL someone snaps.

Their planning wasn't planning at all, that's one reason why there are so many lose ends. They talked about it, began to act on it, but didn't do it until something came over him and he decided to act in that moment. They didn't plan on cover up in any smart fashion, they did so many incredibly haphazard things there is no way they actually planned...and even though I consider them evil, I don't think they are both that stupid. I believe it was more that he snapped and followed through, then demanded she take care of the horror he created...and she in some bizarre need to please, or hold on to him, did as he asked. Doesn't make her any less evil. This murder was not planned, in that it wasn't thought out completely...it was two evil twins acting out.

JMO

 

[NCTeacher]

Not getting this. Need help. CB told Agent Slater that PF had KB's gun because during an argument about finances KB held a gun to her head and indicated she might as well "kill" herself. Right? What I don't understand is, did KB tell CB that story or did PF? I think my brain is reaching critical mass and is about to explode

I don't think it's been said who told CB the details of why he had her gun.

 

[PommyMommy]

Re the confusion on where the murder took place - the affidavit at 66 says living room but Sam Kramer reported the Slater testimony as having the murder take place in the back bedroom when he was tweeting during the hearing. See screenshot. Perhaps it was mistaken reporting but that is why there is confusion. Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

Sam later corrected his tweet:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Prosecutors are saying K was in the back room while the murder happened. They say Kelsey was killed in the living room. Blame the courtroom acoustics. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #ParrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

(baby's name changed to initial K by me)

MOO

 

[Trocroc9]

Self delete

 

[MsBetsy]

Perhaps I’m giving them too much credit.

There wasn’t any reference to a conversation between the two, that concerned the car.

It’s entirely possible that it was an oversight.

Well, he did imply to Kelseys mom that she may have taken off in a plane with a co-worker. Maybe he was hoping they would think the co-worker had picked her up. Jmo

 

[MemPat]

I think a lot of the "planning" they did was after the fact.

He may have been wanting to harm KB for months but I think the actual event was due to some psycho rage. The fact that blood was so widespread, the fact that much of their "plans" don't make a lot of sense to us, and they both left things "undone" and stories are a bit scattered...all that tells me he lit up in the heat of anger and decided then and there he would do it.

The planning and resulting cover-up was haphazard and seems CYA vs. planning. But they didn't do a very good job of CYA'ing.

Some keep looking to tie it (their actions) all up in a package that makes sense. No sense at all to this, just a lot of mental/emotional sickness going on.

What other than rage could make a person bash in the head of another in the middle of the day knowing it was going to make a big mess that would demand a clean-up?

No way to fake a suicide with a bat involved and anyone who has watched a Dateline or two knows the most recent partner will be Suspect #1.

With all the obsessive planning the brilliant cowboy put into KB's murder, he eventually just lost it and started swinging. So simple.

The weird thing is that we think normal people like us can wrap our minds around this. We never will, thank God.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Agreed- is there any reason KK would lie about actually going to CO to kill KB but not going through with it? I’m trying to understand this level of devotion to PF and I’m convinced PF is the killer and she did the cleanup and I’m awaiting the rest of the evidence JMO

KK may have actually poisoned the coffee which she gave Kelsey and used something more lethal than Ambien. (Kelsey might not have consumed the coffee or consumed enough to become ill.)

KK may be worried that traces of poison would be found in KK's house or that traces will be located in human remains that might be found. KK wants everyone to know that she isn't the source of any poison that's found.
MOO

 

[MassGuy]

ITA. This case is the most convoluted case I've ever followed. People are acting like it is simple, when two weeks ago the majority on here thought there was no way that KK was more involved than just getting the phone and bringing it back to Idaho. The thought of her cleaning up a blood bath would've been absurd and not conforming to Occam's Razor.

KK cleaning up the blood, nearly killing Kelsey herself three times, and being present at the burn site, was definitely surprising.

I don’t think it complicates the case though, or makes it any more convoluted.

It just means that she was far more involved than some of us believed.

 

[MsBetsy]

Sam later corrected his tweet:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Prosecutors are saying K was in the back room while the murder happened. They say Kelsey was killed in the living room. Blame the courtroom acoustics. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #ParrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

(baby's name changed to initial K by me)

No, it was PF's phone that pinged off the tower near KB's home and later in Divide.
MOO

There was another phone, from Idaho, that was not identified. It pinged twice but no name was connected to it, that was revealed.

 

[Seattle1]

James Holmes trial was live streamed in Colorado

Actually it was not live streamed. It was a "close circuit TV only" that was permitted in the courtroom, and this was only after a supreme court decision.

In Colorado, it's best to follow the motions for coverage filed by Media for each hearing, and the Courts response to grant or object to the motion, on a case by case basis.

Especially since a Judge can object to even a statutory hearing motion (i.e., advisement and/or arraignment) if it's deemed that coverage of permitted hearing would interfere with the rights of the parties to a fair trial, detract from the solemnity, decorum, and dignity of the Court, etc....

The Court pinned the rules on Dec 28, 2018 for EMC on Frazee's case page if you want to understand the history and process in Colorado. Linking the page below.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...er/caseofinterest/2018CR330/001/EMC Order.pdf

 

[Kapua]

I will say, my mind was completely blown on Tuesday. My jaw hit the floor repeatedly. First, I was like---no way, she met her!!!! Wait, come again? She went to KB's house under the pretense of offering her coffee and friendship? Wait, whatttt? She was supposed to poison it? Then a few weeks later, she drove all the way to Colorado again to attack KB with a metal rod and then chickened? No way---a week later she drove down AGAIN and waited outside her house with the plan of jumping out and beating her with a bat right there in the parking lot? Noooo way! And if that wasn't enough, PF called her on Thanksgiving and told KK she "had a mess to clean up," and she actually drove down with cleaning materials and scrubbed the blood bath clean???? And she picked up teeth that had roots still attached to it? And then they had a huge bonfire at MaFra's house and MaFra saw it?

IKR?

Where are those posters who said "I don't think we will hear anything new on Tuesday." ???

Crow being served hot.

 

[MemPat]

A conspiracy is when two or more people agree to engage in activity that is designed to mislead others from the truth. KK and PF's role in this murder is definitely conspiratorial.

However, I think you meant it is not a diversion, in that I agree. PF killed KB, and KK is probably telling the events as they actually occurred and is, for the most part, not lying.

Let's not get carried away and declare KK a total truth-teller.

She and the lawyers had lots of time to sort out what she would agree to tell LE, giving them the backbone of their case while protecting her from life in lock-up.

I also think a girl who had lived the glory of being a Rodeo Queen would be concerned about protecting some semblance of a reputation.

The good news is the bat-wielder is locked up for good.

 

[Oregon]

I really, really hope this trial is televised!

I missed the previous thread being open while driving home, but wanted to say your posts #1100 and #1221 stood out ... you’re always the voice of reason in such a clear manner, which is why I enjoy hearing your thoughts.

If it’s not, I would hope the media would employ a couple of court reporters to document the questions and testimony. Actually, I am very surprised that they seemed to keep up so well with the texts. Very hard to text and listen at the same time.

 

[Artis]

Actually, the hearing on 2/19 was the "preliminary hearing," and it was NOT live streamed pursuant to Colorado's statute for Expanded Media Coverage (EMC) during CRIMINAL TRIALS.

The hearing scheduled on 4/8 is noted as PF's "arraignment," and this hearing is eligible for EMC (i.e., audio/video may be permitted upon the Court's prior approval).

ETA:
In Colorado Criminal Court, only "advisements" and "arraignments" are eligible for EMC (i.e., audio/video permitted inside the courtroom with the Court's prior approval).

If 'only "advisements" and "arraignments" are eligible for EMC', what does that mean for the actual trial? I'm somewhat confused because when the families of Shanann and Chris Watts spoke at his (sentencing, was it), that was televised. Does fall under an advisement?

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

The information lends itself to questions, but I don’t see any plausible way that one can spin some alternate theory that KK was the killer.

That’s the thing I’m arguing against.

I’m convinced that PF killed Kelsey, and that it mostly happened the way that KK said it did.

I think KK helped Patrick.

If the security camera didn't pick up Patrick leaving with the black bag and didn't record KK entering/exiting Kelsey's apartment to clean it, the camera might not have picked up KK entering/exiting Kelsey's apartment on Nov 22nd.

KK knew about very specific details such as how the body bag was set on the ground near the car. That doesn't seem like a significant detail Patrick would have thought to share with KK. I think KK saw this happen. That's how KK knew this very specific, but insignificant detail.

 

[Trocroc9]

KK cleaning up the blood, nearly killing Kelsey herself three times, and being present at the burn site, was definitely surprising.

I don’t think it complicates the case though, or makes it any more convoluted.

It just means that she was far more involved than some of us believed.

To play devils advocate I don’t see any support from LE that evidence was from a blunt force murder. Only from what KK provided. As far as we know LE did not even know a murder took place until they found blood in the bathroom and floorboards. What’s not to say that blood was from a gun shot wound at this point.

 

[Mormon Attorney]

Sam later corrected his tweet:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Prosecutors are saying K was in the back room while the murder happened. They say Kelsey was killed in the living room. Blame the courtroom acoustics. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #ParrickFrazee #KrystalKenney

(baby's name changed to initial K by me)

MOO

Thank you! I was concerned about the discrepancy and had not seen the correction. I am very grateful there is not an inconsistency there.

 

[NCTeacher]

Many murderers are premeditated but not carried through UNTIL someone snaps.

Their planning wasn't planning at all, that's one reason why there are so many lose ends. They talked about it, began to act on it, but didn't do it until something came over him and he decided to act in that moment. They didn't plan on cover up in any smart fashion, they did so many incredibly stupid things there is no way they actually planned...and even though I consider them evil, I don't think they are both that stupid. I believe it was more that he snapped and followed through, then demanded she take care of the horror he created...and she in some bizarre need to please, or hold on to him, did as he asked. Doesn't make her any less evil. This murder was not planned, in that it wasn't thought out completely...it was two evil twins acting out.

JMO

No, I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. Any of it. He did not snap. KB's murder WAS PLANNED. It is true that many murders are the result of people whose emotions are fried, and prior to killing, may've toyed with the idea---but this case is NOT one of those cases. PF was not "toying" with the idea, he was soliciting it with the expectation of it being carried out. He is a diabolical human being who solicited KB's murder at least three times between September 23rd and October 21st with the expectation that he would get a phone call from KK that the deed was done. He was not at a breaking point and just happened to boil over--he is a cold, calculating murderer.

 

[Noharg]

I will say, my mind was completely blown on Tuesday. My jaw hit the floor repeatedly. First, I was like---no way, she met her!!!! Wait, come again? She went to KB's house under the pretense of offering her coffee and friendship? Wait, whatttt? She was supposed to poison it? Then a few weeks later, she drove all the way to Colorado again to attack KB with a metal rod and then chickened? No way---a week later she drove down AGAIN and waited outside her house with the plan of jumping out and beating her with a bat right there in the parking lot? Noooo way! And if that wasn't enough, PF called her on Thanksgiving and told KK she "had a mess to clean up," and she actually drove down with cleaning materials and scrubbed the blood bath clean???? And she picked up teeth that had roots still attached to it? And then they had a huge bonfire at MaFra's house and MaFra saw it?

It’s hard to wrap our minds around it all. Moo

 

[ab01]

I think KK helped.

If the security camera didn't pick up Patrick leaving with the black bag and didn't record KK entering/exiting Kelsey's apartment to clean it, the camera might not have picked up KK entering/exiting Kelsey's apartment on Nov 22nd.

Then everybody lied for her and said she was in Idaho when she wasn't.Her family lied and said she was at thanksgiving. Cell phone ping data was wrong saying that she was in Idaho. Her friend lied about the day and time she picked up the borrowed car. I guess expect a lot more people to be charged....MOO