Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by GuyfromCanada, Dec 3, 2018.

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  1. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

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    I just never got the feeling the baby was in danger either, but of course I don't have any inside information. Certainly LE would have to take it into consideration.
     
  2. Nudgee

    Nudgee FLY EAGLES FLY.....

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    I’ve thought the same....with him knowing the relationship was ending ..(if there really was one the past year knowing what we now know of PF & KK’s relationship/affair...poor KB)... add to that he knew Momma SF would really be the one who took care of Baby K and he probably was counting on no longer having to pay KB the @$700/month he had currently been paying! Sick twisted mind that PF has!
     
  3. GordianKnot

    GordianKnot Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this, and I think one of the other reasons the DA moved swiftly to close on a deal with KK was that it was her information that probably enabled them to secure a lot of the evidence.

    Time was of the essence early in the case as every hour that PF was free, he was free to destroy evidence and cover his tracks.*

    (*Note that this was probably before DA May realized he was dealing w/ the world's most moronic criminal.)
     
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  4. Kapua

    Kapua Well-Known Member

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    Whether or not the baby was in danger, she was in the custody of a murderer with a bad temper and his mother (who we don't know much about and are not allowed to sleuth). And it appeared to some that they were planning to take the baby somewhere the morning that PF was arrested.

    I'm really glad that baby K is with the Bs now, and that LE wasted no time in getting her there. MOO
     
  5. JenniferTx

    JenniferTx Well-Known Member

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    It is really sad that there are actually men in this world that would rather murder the mother of their OWN CHILD rather than pay child support. I don't understand how someone could be so heartless and now the poor baby will never know her mother and the "sperm donor father" will rot in jail. Poor child.
     
  6. GordianKnot

    GordianKnot Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely! She is in a safe place with loving grandparents, and I'm confident that is precisely where she'll remain. Thank God...and I say that reverently.

    The fact that the courts acted so swiftly and decisively to award temporary custody to KB's parents who live out of the state of CO, vs. awarding temporary custody to "Granny" SF, who presumably performed regular babysitting duties with Baby K, speaks absolute volumes.

    The F's home environment there at the ranchette is toxic in more ways than one.

    JMO.
     
  7. Irmese

    Irmese Well-Known Member

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    KK is a liar, but if you examine her lies, they tend to all be self-serving. At first, she denied knowing PF. When it was proven that LE knew that she was lying, she began to tell everything PF said and did and that everything was his fault, that she was afraid of PF, etc. I have no doubt that when LE knew she was lying, they told her, "That's not what PF (or SF, or the camera at Sonic, etc. ) says," and they squeezed a little more info out of her. And, they were looking for evidence to corroborate her stories. The dog hitting on the hay, the burn ring, the missing trough, the presence of accelerants and plastic where she said it happened, all those things support her story about destroying the body. The body was almost certainly in that tote when it was on the hay, so what would he have done with it after taking it out of the tote? And she told LE about the blood at KB's, which was also corroborated. The only parts of her story that haven't been corroborated are the presence of the body and whether she saw it or not. Personally, I believe she did see it because she was in charge of destroying the purse and its contents. There's plenty of evidence the fire happened and that there was plastic, oil and gas present, so she's not lying about that and it doesn't matter if there was a huge flame or a huge plume of black smoke. Whether it was visible to neighbors or passersby doesn't really matter because it was not reported by anyone, although we don't know how KK described the smell or the smoke, she may have told LE some things we aren't privy to. I believe most people have seen plastic burn, yes, it stinks, and it shrinks up to almost nothing. If there was a big lump it must have been the body. JMO.

    Edited for sentence structure.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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  8. x_files

    x_files Well-Known Member

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    If you kill once killing again would be no big deal.
     
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  9. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    True, but it appears he killed Kelsey so he could have custody of the baby in the first place.

    It wouldn’t make sense to kill the very person you killed to have.

    I could see some murder/suicide scenario in some people, but not in this guy.

    Regardless though, it was far safer to remove the baby to be removed from the custody of that side of her family.
     
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  10. gngr~snap

    gngr~snap Verified Professional Pediatric Nurse

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    I am starting to believe that the tote was stored until PF could burn it in the dark with the items from KB's house. (So no smoke plume would be seen)
    *even if it was seen, would that be kinda normal at Thanksgiving, with family gatherings and such?
    It was basically a small bonfire from what I can tell. KK saw some melted plastic balls and smelled some accelerant- which is what LE reportedly found.

    I think he had already disposed of the body the night of the 23rd.
    I have the feeling that she may be in the dump. If not she is probably buried on the property of PF's friend who he spent some time with before KK returned to clean up "her" mess.
    I feel like the dump is a red herring. His cell may have pinged there, but I think even a rancher like PF knows burying in a random location, that NO ONE ELSE BUT HE KNOWS ABOUT, is the only way to assure she is never found.

    He isn't talking. KK really doesn't know what he did with her body, IMO.
    I'm not buying that he ever asked her to take the remains to Idaho.

    I'm also not buying that he tried to burn her body on his/mama's property.
    If there was a tooth left for KK imo, it was a test to see if she would return it to PF.
    I completely see that he will point the finger at KK.
    It won't work, but he'll try.

    If he moved a decomposing/burnt body that many times, he would have left even more evidence to clean up!
    Moo
     
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  11. Mom24

    Mom24 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not entirely sure he wasn't abusive. He insinuated that KB was dating other people, when he was the one doing that. He stated that KB had substance abuse issues, and I'll bet he did. He stated that KB had abandoned the baby at the hospital, when in fact he was the one who had had issues there with staff. He claimed she abused the baby, and I wouldn't be in any way surprised that in fact he had been accused of abuse and KB was limiting his time with her. Look how he trained his dogs, treated his horses and his women, why would his child be treated any better? I believe something happened over the fall, something that made KB wonder if he was safe with the baby. PF looked into taking the baby away from her, found he'd have to share custody and he flipped out. I think she was limiting his time alone with the baby and he decided to kill her to get the baby. I'm not at all convinced that child was safe with him or would have been safe with him if he hadn't been arrested and the child removed. Call it instinct and many years of experience. Something about this whole thing raises my hackles and I'm relieve that baby is safe with the Berreths.
     
  12. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    My sense is that Kelsey’s body was in fact burned.

    I questioned how the hell he was able to apparently gather every single bone fragment, until I came to realize that this fire was not burning for the amount of time it would have taken to achieve that level of destruction.

    A relatively intact body, atleast compared to the alternative (bone fragments and ash) would be quite easy to bag up after burning.

    Especially considering that he had this fire in a contained trough.

    I believe that KK is lying when she described a “bulge,” and in fact, saw Kelsey’s body at the time.

    Either way, coupled with this guy’s pattern of behavior, and his plan to have KK take Kelsey’s body with her, I don’t believe he disposed of her before that fire.

    It makes no sense to ask someone to transport a body that has already been disposed of.

    The fire was plan B.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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  13. MemPat

    MemPat The EARTH without ART is just EH.

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    That baby girl may not have been in physical danger but I believe every day she was with the <modsnipped> Frazees she was in psychological danger.

    There was no way that was going to turn out well.

    <modsnipped - using made up derogatory nicknames for case players is against TOS>
     
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  14. Irmese

    Irmese Well-Known Member

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    ITA. The baby would have been in danger with him for sure. He wouldn't have been able to handle all the stuff that comes with being a full time dad with no mom to do everything. I have no doubt he knew how to change a diaper or put some socks on the baby, but he wouldn't have been able to handle a sick, fussy child or a two-year old that refuses to eat anything except their favorite food and has tantrums if their favorite toy is out of sight. He can't handle adult women expecting anything from him, much less a child. MOO.
     
  15. MassGuy

    MassGuy The Monsters Ain't The Ones Beneath The Bed

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    Hell no.

    I absolutely agree. If she wasn’t physically harmed, she would have been subject to emotional abuse.

    We see this type of thing all the time, when the family of a killer manages to obtain custody.

    The victim is vilified, and the murderer becomes some sort of martyr.

    She would grow up believing that mommy was a bad person, mommy’s family is full of bad people, and daddy is being persecuted.

    This was the right custody decision, and I have every expectation that it will become permanent.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2019
  16. MemPat

    MemPat The EARTH without ART is just EH.

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    Narcissists often accuse people of doing things that they themselves are doing as a form of deflecting to control the conversation.

    PF wasn't the master of much besides shoeing donkeys but he nailed projection, the unconscious transfer of his desires or emotions to KB.

    What a genius!
     
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  17. Irmese

    Irmese Well-Known Member

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    KK saw the tote, not just balls of plastic. With gas and oil poured on it, the flames likely got pretty high and SF did come out to see what was happening. I don't see why KK would lie about that because it doesn't really affect her, make her look worse except to show SF probably knew she was there when the fire happened. If the body is in the dump, why is the dump a red herring?

    PF isn't talking to LE NOW, but he was talking to KK when this was happening.

    The body was in the tote, moved once to the Nash Ranch and once to the Franchette. I think the mess was well contained during those moves. When he "scooped up" the burnt body, it was probably not nearly as much to be left behind since the other items were burnt up. The body was likely mostly dried out by the fire and probably encased in the melted plastic. MOO.
     
  18. NanZDrew

    NanZDrew Well-Known Member

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    I had forgot about the target practice. Makes me think that Patrick suggested this and that would have shown her gun being fired and she would have had lead on her hands from firing the gun to make it look like suicide. She was supposed to have died the night before, in my opinion, but something altered the plan.
     
  19. tmar

    tmar Well-Known Member

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    I agree Irmese, that KK changed PF's ideas, after the murder, as you describe.
    With the plans being changed, there are numerous inconsistencies that don't fit, and are now revealed.
    This combination, PF and KK, will now be their downfall, I hope.
    MOO.
     
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  20. travelbug

    travelbug Injustice anywhere a threat to justice everywhere

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    His short fuse is what convinces me that, if he was alone with the child, at some point he would become violent. Excessive crying interrupting his sleep, a toddler breaking something important to him, the little one telling him no, etc. are all triggers for a dominant and controlling person. Ma might serves as a calming influence, but there would be times when she wouldn't be present. Sadly, we discuss those cases daily on here. :(
     
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