ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 45

[EBW321]

That makes sense. Thanks for explaining. I would also think it would be pretty tough to convince a judge that he's sane enough to pass a doctor's level semester in Criminology but too crazy to be held accountable for killing someone.

Thank you. Very interesting.

@scapa do you know if criminology phd majors are taught to read psych evaluations/ how to give them and interpret answers as some of their research into understanding the minds of criminals?

Moo- If so this could mean he may know how to fail psych evaluation test if his attorneys try to claim insanity/ other mental illness disorders to avoid the death penalty.

Just curious if you know other fields who do research on psych evaluations in court proceedings. You seem to be very knowledgeable In this area.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

(he likely disposed of the knife back in WA/ID, easy to do).

I agree. And it seems the rational thing to do. Here's how I see the logic from his perspective:

If the knife is eventually found in PA (or along the route between) it will be an obvious link to him, since how many other people from the Moscow/Pullman area have connections to this part of PA (or along the route between).

Whereas if the knife is eventually found in the Moscow/Pullman vicinity, that doesn't necessarily tie it to anyone in particular, because the perp was obviously in the vicinity to commit the crime.

Plus, if he completely gets away with it (in his thinking at the time), he has his whole life to return to wherever it's hidden and visit it/retrieve it if so desired.

MOO

 

[Diogenetic]

There are so many questions about the mechanism or how this crime was committed by one man murdering 3 women and a man, who were sleeping in the middle of the nigiht : when he began stabbing, did anyone scream and wake the others? doesn't seem like it because it appears that he murdered them pretty easily. How could he murder four people without any of the screaming and waking the others- It seems like he carried out the crime with a certain amount of ease. I hate to get graphic but the prosecution has to get graphic and figure out the exact way this crime was carried out. For example while he was stabbing one of the women, did the other wake up? I presume she would have- I can't imagine she didn't try to jump on him or do something to stop him-- just thinking out loud.
Not many people have discussed this issue but it is a huge issue- how exactly did he commit this crime?

I don't think the mechanism, and his success in pulling off killing and lack of detection for five weeks is strange at all.
This was a taller than average, physically fit, adult male. He had a 8' to 10" combat knife based on a design meant to deliver gigantic trauma and kill people.
His victims were all likely sleeping, and most probable had some vestigial intoxication. Three of the four were petite females. He likely was standing above prone victims, meaning it was not just his shoulder and arm muscles, but his body weight added, that could be applied to knife.
While it is important to consider experts' views, the experts I saw on YouTube and news were certainly mostly used to fatal stabbings that were escalating fights, domestic or otherwise, , robberies of conscious people, and done with folding knives, or kitchen knives, not combat knives. Those experts were relating what they have seen in their investigative career, which as a rule may be diametrical to what happened here.

Other issue is the cogitative dissonance tht you (and I, and all of us here) because we are not ideating ambush murdering sleeping women with a Kabar.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Not sure what the issue is on the Elantra model years. Wheel bolt pattern is identical 5x114.3 meaning any kind of wheels and tires with that pattern and ultra common tire size could be on it. Sure a defense attorney will attack it but a preliminary identification law enforcement gave, based on a still from a video that off by a couple of years is not going to be a problem for prosecution. from the side there is virtually nbo differnce in staying and geometry one would see between 2013 and 2015 in the dark.
Even if this suspect was driving a white Toyota four door sedan when caught, I think what will matter most is if there are any microscopic blood traces from any of the victims or fibers from their apartment etc. in that vehicle, not being off by a model year.

I'm just going to say this, then be done. Since there were 22,000 Elantras LE had to track down (assuming they were only looking for 2011-2013), then IF the video or videos of the car was part of or becomes any part of probable cause for arrest or charge, having the wrong year COULD (not will, but could) be grounds for dismissing or casting doubt the video or videos based on it could be one of the other 22,000 Elantras they were looking at unless they could account for all the other 21,999. It COULD be argued reasonable doubt that the car in the video or videos was not BKs since the car in the video or videos might be one of the other 21,999.

I mention again, there are three distinct differences between a 2011-2013 and 2015. The front fog lights are larger on the 2015, the rear tail amps have been moved and the wheel spokes went from 8 straight to a 5 twist. The spokes are EXTREMELY distinctive to anyone who knows cars. Most people do not change out wheels, just tires, unless you want a larger or smaller wheel.

Again, this ONLY matters if the video or videos they had was/is needed for any arrest warrant or prosecution and are identified as 2011-2013. If that was only used to get to another point and will not be used in any legal document that defense could call into question, it's not any kind of issue.

ETA: identified as 2011-2013.

 

[Sundog]

Higher education has no barriers other than determination.

<snipped>

Yes, that's one of the distinguishing features of American higher education.

 

[di anna]

There are so many questions about the mechanism or how this crime was committed by one man murdering 3 women and a man, who were sleeping in the middle of the nigiht : when he began stabbing, did anyone scream and wake the others? doesn't seem like it because it appears that he murdered them pretty easily. How could he murder four people without any of the screaming and waking the others- It seems like he carried out the crime with a certain amount of ease. I hate to get graphic but the prosecution has to get graphic and figure out the exact way this crime was carried out. For example while he was stabbing one of the women, did the other wake up? I presume she would have- I can't imagine she didn't try to jump on him or do something to stop him-- just thinking out loud.
Not many people have discussed this issue but it is a huge issue- how exactly did he commit this crime?

Why could it not be that he simply covered each victims mouth with his hand?

 

[Sundog]

Many times, graduate programs are chosen based on quality of the program + whether they accept you + financial aid offer. It might end up seeming like an odd choice from the outside. MOO

And to add to what you wrote, often it's not about the university itself, but the particular doctoral program's reputation - or it's focus or a certain faculty member's research or interests.

 

[Curious Me]

MSN

www.msn.com

MSN

Jason LaBar told CNN that Mr. Kohberger’s father had travelled to Washington state to meet his son before Christmas – weeks after the violent quadruple homicide – so that they could make the cross-country drive home together.

The father and son travelled in the suspect’s white Hyundai Elantra – the vehicle that has been at the center of the murder investigation for several weeks. They were pulled over by police twice as they passed through Indiana, Mr. LaBar told KTVB. Mr. LaBar said he wasn’t sure if the stops resulted in citations but said one was for speeding and the other was for following a car ahead too closely.

Sometime during the journey east, investigators began tracking Mr. Kohberger’s movements across the US.​

 

[IQuestion]

IN CLASS??

Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology | Washington State University

crmj.wsu.edu

 

[Diogenetic]

I was just thinking a few minutes ago about where I’d hide a weapon. My first thoughts were to duct tape it somewhere that’s not even really hidden. Like on the inside top of my dresser drawer. Or on top of ceiling fan blade. Lol.

Your dresser drawer is the very first place a burglar would look for hidden valuables. So too the half dozen most common places.

 

[Copper107]

I have been wondering about this too - one of the main things I'm hoping to get out of a trial or the PCA.

My current theory (IMO) he entered and exited through the slider and simply didn't realize there were 2 downstairs, as basement/garage rooms are rather uncommon. 4 is already a lot to kill so he was ready to get out of there instead of exploring the entire house

I agree, afterall the main living areas are on the floor with the slider, ie. the kitchen and living room.

 

[WildWest]

It's costly to rent a car then drop it off in another city. Or did BCK pick him up in Spokane? Wouldn't they naturally drive east on I90?

I'm still wondering why they didn't fly BK home, instead of Dad flying out there and then making the long trek. I too assume I90

 

[Seattle1]

Updated: 10:29 PM MST December 29, 2022

Moscow murders: Police begin cleaning biohazards from King Street home

Moscow Police said Thursday they will begin remediation of the home to clean up biohazards or harmful substances.

www.ktvb.com

MOSCOW, Idaho — Moscow Police (MPD) will be using a private company starting Friday to begin cleaning up the crime scene to remove biohazards and other harmful substances that may be left over inside the 1122 King Street home, where four students were murdered on Nov. 13.

However, the home is still an active crime scene and it will remain under police control in the meantime.

Referred to as 'biohazard remediation,' clean-up consists of the removal, cleaning, disinfection of bodily fluids and other infectious materials after a death, accident or communicable disease outbreak, according to Trauma Scene Bio Services, a trauma cleaning team.

According to a news release Thursday, once completed, MPD will return the home back to the property management company. There is no timeline for how long the services will take, the release said.

 

[wary]

It depends how one thinks of the addiction and the definitions change. As I mentioned earlier I stopped smoked cigarettes' 15 years ago but I consider myself a nicotine addict that has to stay completely away from tobacco.

This guy could have are one time been a light, moderate or heavy user of opiates and just not a user currently. He still can be considered addicted, an addict. Brain scans of people with substance addiction show affects/receptors etc that can be seen decades later. Also he could have multiple relapses' as well as many periods of non-use.

As far as this guy and food, it isn't just about possible OCD. while many many vegans are just regular people otherwise, many vegans really wear it on their sleeve and are extremely judgmental and nasty to people who are not vegans. Part of their identity is being vegan and a good deal of their interactions are condemnatory of peopel who are not.

The food issue also goes to the prior contact with victims, one or two of whom worked at one of the more well known vegan restaurants. That may have been where the alleged perp initially came into contact with the victims.

Just for the record, The Mad Greek, where Maddie and Xena worked, may have had vegan options, but is far from a ‘vegan restaurant.’ This is only relevant because it makes the possibility of a connection with BK a little weaker.

Online Ordering | Clover

www.clover.com

Note the Mega Meat option.

MOO

 

[EBW321]

MOO

I just read this news article. Does anyone else think if he dropped his car off at the maintenance shop In Pennsylvania on December 16th.. wouldn’t this have been the perfect time for police who I’m not certain… but I believe had just begun following him, to acquire potential DNA and forensic evidence from the vehicle?

Again… this is just my opinion… the timeline just adds up with (unverified) news reports of investigators tracking him on his way home or shortly after arriving home.

I’ve just been very curious as to where they got concrete dna evidence in the days leading up to the arrest.

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger stopped by police twice on 2,500-mile road trip with dad before arrest

 

[10ofRods]

Yes. Notice that none of the questions have anything to do with concern about apprehension.

If I were to guess, he wasn't trying to commit the perfect crime (without getting caught). He wanted to experience this act in its entirety...and either didn't care about the ramifications, or didn't think about them. In my mind, I'm comparing this to his ability to lose 80 lbs in one summer. Determined. Obsessive. Etc.

Moo....and I'm probably wrong.

You know what, though? I think you might be right and it's only today that I'm slowly coming around to that way of thinking. It's the only thing that's making sense in my mind, at the moment.

Initially, I thought this killer was, if not a criminal mastermind, at least a meticulous and very well organized killer. I no longer think that. I think he prepared his stare for his mugshot (people do that when they think they're going to get caught for a crime, I've interviewed them and for habitual criminals, it's a mind game they play - or not to ?)

Now I think he was fully invested in trying to plan "the perfect crime" including meeting his own ideological and inner psychological needs, but didn't care all that much about the getting part cart. I bet he plans to plead out to avoid the death penalty. His life won't be *that* much different in prison (and to the DM: he's NOT in prison right now!).

By this I mean, he's a loner, he'll probably be in relative isolation from the general population for a long, long time. He likes to read, take notes, think about himself, and he's going to write a book about himself. Maybe more than one. He'll get access to the prison library and study law next. He'll file appeals and participate in them. He'll answer penpal letters. He's something of ascetic already, his only problem will be negotiating through his lawyers for special food treatment (which he'll feel smug about when he's accommodated). He's the type who probably can go on a hunger strike for such purposes. He'll be just as busy as he always was, and have a whole life to ponder his favorite topics. At some point, of course, he'll say he feels regret and he'll welcome interviews with researchers and journalists.

So I fully support your idea that he was unconcerned with getting caught, and may have had a mental "points" system - for each hour and day he remained, free, he gave himself points and inwardly dinged or even mocked LE.

 

[B4igo2it]

Im sure they have a camera on him recording 24 hours a day, so maybe he is just facing away from the camera to be defiant or he thinks thats in his best interest. And "not talking" certainly is in his own best interest...

It’s possible BK is planning an insanity plea, IMO

 

[eloquence]

But I'm not sure why BCK would want to fail a psych eval -- if he's pleased with what he's done he'll want the credit for it, and if he's looking for a way out I don't see any clear path to an insanity defence given his behaviour prior to or after the alleged crimes.

Idaho actually doesn't even have an insanity defense. The best he could do is "guilty but insane" and receive mental health help while serving a jail sentence. I agree that regardless that he has little path to an insanity defense even in other states.

Link: Idaho is one of only 4 states without a criminal insanity defense

 

[Caring4Many]

Sometimes you can find different sources for the same info. Was it this?

BK and father were pulled over twice in Indiana while driving to PA.

Moscow murders suspect Bryan Kohberger could be extradited to Idaho by Tuesday night

According to his extradition lawyer, Kohberger believes he will be exonerated. Moscow Police believe they have the right man in custody.

www.ktvb.com

Yes, thank you! I was doing some looking just now to find something else-thank you!

Moscow murders suspect Bryan Kohberger could be extradited to Idaho by Tuesday night

According to his extradition lawyer, Kohberger believes he will be exonerated. Moscow Police believe they have the right man in custody.

www.ktvb.com

Snipped from link shown(in italics). This is what I found interesting- wondering if this was purely coincidental or were they checking in to see how “things were going” or how dad was if they knew at this point this was their suspect.

LaBar did state the father and son duo were pulled over twice in Indiana during the trip to Pennsylvania. He also said he was not sure who had been driving.
"I don't know whether they were speeding or not or if they were even issued a ticket," LaBar said. "I just know that they were pulled over in Indiana almost back to back. I believe once for speeding and once for falling too closely to a car in front of them."

 

[Sassafrass]

The Purloined Letter by EA Poe. Hidden in plain sight, the police couldn't find it, they had only looked in places they would have chosen. If you have 2 different storage rooms, or closets, fasten one with a super hefty lock and hide your item in the unlocked place.

Too clever by half . If I were a murderer who went on frequent long runs at night, I'd leave my phone at home one night, take a new route, head into some woods*, and bury the thing.

* Oop. Pullman is not in a woodsy area. It's in the Palouse, a huge area of rolling hills and agricultural development. That said, there are heavily treed parks and things in the town, so that's one option, but there are also thousands of acres of unoccupied land around the town, and paved trails and a scenic byway of a couple hundred miles nearby. Would not be difficult to dispose of a small object.

EXPLORE | Visit Pullman

Check out all there is to do in Pullman! From the outdoor recreation and photography, to the family fun adventures - we have it all!

www.visit-pullman.com

I'd also immediately smash any smashable (wooden) elements, separate handle from blade if possible, and deform/break the blade as much as possible, scattering small bits in all different places, ideally underground. I don't possess a criminal mind, but I do have a brain, and I think that if I'd gone to the trouble to plan something so big, I'd have planned some ways to distance myself from anything I wore or possessed at the time/place of the crime.

That makes sense. Thanks for explaining. I would also think it would be pretty tough to convince a judge that he's sane enough to pass a doctor's level semester in Criminology but too crazy to be held accountable for killing someone.

An insanity defense isn't an option in Idaho (Idaho abolished in in 1982, and is one if justv4 states to disallow it; one would think a criminology student would know/consider this and specifically not choose one of those states, assuming he doesn't have a death wish, but I digress.... There is a possibility of a "guilty but insane" outcome in ID, but that is still a guilty verdict. And notably, in ID a GBI verdict does not absolutely preclude a death penalty. Of course, charging/ prosecuting/sentencing decisions may vary, but technically speaking, being deemed "insane" doesn't mean you can't potentially face the harshest punishment.

[And in general, insanity defenses are far more rare than public familiarity with the concept would suggest, and exponentially rarer than that as a successful defense, even in states where the defense exists.]

Proving incompetence to stand trial (a totally different concept and standard) is a very difficult task - and it is only temporary, until a person is stable enough to understand what is going on.