Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #5

[Colorado303]

I have no idea why it would take that long. I've seen test results take months but usually only in cases where the victim was skeletal when found. I'm not sure what they are looking for. Perhaps they are running basic tox-screen tests first and anticipating that if the basic ones come back without clear results that more tests have to be run after that? If he was poisoned with something unusual or rare that they don't usually test for they may have to keep doing tests until they find it. I hope they conducted a search warrant on AC's home to recover all medications and chemicals that could have been used to poison him. But we have not heard anything about that... MOO.

Has there been anything published indicating that AZ LE is comparing notes w/ID officials regarding autopsies of Tammy and Alex. If there’s something to be found that takes 3 months to identify one would hope ID is aware and running those same tests too despite their estimate that results are mere weeks away.

 

[tresir2012]

Exactly, but most take everything they read or get second hand as the gospel and prejudge before even having all the facts. I have to say the grandmother was smart about going to FB and the media to get their narrative out because people sure don't fair well in the court of public opinion. MOO

We are not like that on WS. Hopefully you have read the threads and the media thread. We don't allow SM except the victims and POI's and you know only other allowed sources are LE and MSM. We can discuss and speculate as long as we make that clear in our posts.

 

[Beansie]

Super interesting statement, that I bolded in your reply. What do you suppose his end goal is here? Notoriety? JMO

I suspect that he’s become addicted to the feeling of being viewed as someone with powers or abilities and has been riding one high to the next with no end goal in sight. There’s only so much he can prophecy into existence. He can’t make an earthquake happen. I think he’s painted himself into a corner.
Just MOO though

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Has there been anything published indicating that AZ LE is comparing notes w/ID officials regarding autopsies of Tammy and Alex. If there’s something to be found that takes 3 months to identify one would hope ID is aware and running those same tests too despite their estimate that results are mere weeks away.

The FBI is involved....I am sure they are coordinating.

 

[indicolite22]

It's not that I don't understand what any of you are saying. I just don't look at everything as it's concrete, if that makes sense. I look at the all the way around of things. Like many others, I thought too at first that these people were probably guilty, but then I started noticing things. Things I can't post here of course because they not permitted, but enough to make me have doubts as to some of the claims family is making. I'm one of those people who was wrongly accused so naturally, and I hope you can understand, I never want to see anyone be charged with something they may not have done. I'm not saying they haven't done anything, but merely what of they haven't. JMO

Why do you think Lori and Chad fled and are in hiding? Why did they lie about the children's whereabouts to the police? Why did they tell multiple people that Tylee was dead and that Lori had no young children? Why don't they show that the children are alive?

 

[squareandrabbet]

There has actually been a lot of discussion, some as recently as yesterday, as to what exactly made something a cult, and what we know or think we know about this situation supports that term in regards to Chad and Lori. It was also discussed that the contention of involvement in a cult was *mostly* coming from Kay although there have been multiple people with some knowledge of AVOW who think there is cultish behavior there as well.

I'm kind of puzzled we're questioning it; or maybe I missed a large portion of the discussions. Seems to me like we also might be getting a lot of people anxious to detach AVOW/PAP from cultish accusations, which is problematic because we can't discuss AVOW/PAP outside of MSM, even if civilian WSers decide they want to join their message boards to learn more.

At minimum, I will point out that an unhealthy preoccupation with the "End Times" has been unquestionably defined as "cultish".

Ditto the belief of civilian members that they themselves are gods (duh)

Lifted from Rick Ross, I think this is likely a situation we have here:

The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Same source:

Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

This is the divorce/disappearance of Melani, at minimum. For those who did read the CD readings, did you think that CD was concerned with portraying LDS deity accurately or giving proper credit? Or was it all Chad, Chad, Chad? That's cultlike behavior also. I could go on, but the gym (still) calls...

 

[LogicbeforeJudgement]

As I have posted earlier, she is proving their case for them. She is demonstrating her instability, her delusional state, her disregard for the children. When you take off with your children and disrupt their lives due to your own irrationality and paranoia, it becomes necessary that someone investigates whether you are a proper care provider. Trust me, I know. I am currently embroiled in a custody dispute. While there would not have been anything legally preventing me from leaving the state with my son, it would not have been in his best interest ( he also has special needs and on meds), and would have reasonably raised questions about my stability and mental state. Moo.

I can't disagree. She is definitely making herself look bad without a doubt.

 

[Avocado49]

If JJ was eligible for ESY, he has some significant issues. Which concerns me, children who have disabilities are at a higher risk for child abuse. Lori doesn't seem to be the best parent for a child with disabilities.

JJ is eligible for his Father's Social Security benefits, as a child with a dead father, the same as Tylee. Together, the both of them were probably bringing in $4000, if not more in benefits, a month.

I would be interested to know where this money is currently being deposited. And how long Lori will have access to this money, now that the whereabouts of the children is in question.

it’s been established that JJ had special needs, ASD, trauma, and I’m sure was enrolled in some kind of summer program - apparently Lori dropped him off somewhere after the shooting (not sure the source for that). I wonder if Tylee accompanied Lori to the drop-off, and what their conversation was that day. Apparently, Tylee told her brother Colby that she and JJ were waiting in the car when the shots were fired.
The poor kid - he just lost his father and has to go to school? When was he picked up that day and by who? “Come on kids invite your friends over we are having a pool party!” ??? Like just ignore what happened this morning and that your father is now dead?!! Yeah, awful parenting for sure.
it’s interesting because Kay and others assert that Lori was such a wonderful caring mother, until she became involved with the “cult”. how did she lose her mind and heart for the children in her care so quickly? With the addition of this kind of trauma, I’m sure the kids’ issues ramped up significantly, and it’s horrific to think that they were not treated gently at this time or at any time after. At the same time, Melani abandoned her children, so it seems to me like the “cult” doesn’t honor children (like regular LDS do) and they were seen a burden to the cause, or just more of “releasing past relationships” so we can all marry new spouses who believe.

 

[Colorado303]

That is their word. Nothing more. I had my ex's whole family against me and it still didn't make me guilty of what they were saying. That's the point...what makes what they say so believable? Are they believable just because they said it first or have I missed a ton of proof that was proven to be more than circumstantial evidence or hearsay? People are too quick to say or think that things must be true without having any facts. MOO

What a terrible frustrating situation that must have been. Since you were subjected to such unthinkable false witness bearing, I assume you filed a slander lawsuit and it was a slam dunk. Have the evil liars in your case indeed been appropriately punished in their wallets?

 

[tresir2012]

Duly noted. So saying people are involved in cults because the family of the "victims" says so is ok? Not being facecious, but just asking. Honestly I thought this was a forum of discussion rather than a forum directed toward one side or the other based off of other posts. Sorry I misunderstood the premise here.

I think you must understand this website by now. It has been explained to you by many posters. If not please read the rules if you haven't already.

 

[Gardener1850]

It’s in this Gray Hughes show

Someone probably answered. I think it's in Charles divorce filing. Maybe. I'll look when I get caught up.

Thank you both! I think it must be only in GH videos. If you find it in the divorce paperwork as well let me know which page and I will add to the timeline. I didn't see it in the divorce docs but I could have missed it. The Mods said we can talk about the GH info here but I like to limit the number of things in the timeline that are only from that source (just my preference because I don't have time to listen to the long GH interviews to hear the context). Thanks again. I will try to post update #3 of the timeline later tonight.

 

[BigAl16]

I'm kind of puzzled we're questioning it; or maybe I missed a large portion of the discussions. Seems to me like we also might be getting a lot of people anxious to detach AVOW/PAP from cultish accusations, which is problematic because we can't discuss AVOW/PAP outside of MSM, even if civilian WSers decide they want to join their message boards to learn more.

At minimum, I will point out that an unhealthy preoccupation with the "End Times" has been unquestionably defined as "cultish".

Ditto the belief of civilian members that they themselves are gods (duh)

Lifted from Rick Ross, I think this is likely a situation we have here:



Same source:



This is the divorce/disappearance of Melani, at minimum. For those who did read the CD readings, did you think that CD was concerned with portraying LDS deity accurately or giving proper credit? Or was it all Chad, Chad, Chad? That's cultlike behavior also. I could go on, but the gym (still) calls...

The discussion about cults was a bit of an outgrowth of how reasonable it was to look to Mormon beliefs and extrapolate them to possible theories as to what they might be thinking.

 

[Trask]

Exactly, but most take everything they read or get second hand as the gospel and prejudge before even having all the facts. I have to say the grandmother was smart about going to FB and the media to get their narrative out because people sure don't fair well in the court of public opinion. MOO

There would be no narrative to post if Lori hadn't lied to LE about the location of the children and then fled. There would be no story at all. No news, no FB groups, no WS threads, nothing. If the children are alive and well, she has the power to end the story.

 

[Colorado303]

I preface this saying that I’m not up to speed on this case and the allegations, and just looked at that document on my phone so I may be missing something, but I didn’t see any allegation or admission in that document saying he was paid to kill someone. Am I missing something?

OK. Until current investigations are finalized I’m comfortable referring to Alex merely as Lori’s henchman.

 

[Avocado49]

As far as custody issues, none of that explains why they fled from law enforcement. The police had no power to take the children that day, it was a simple welfare check. They could have just shown the children, wherever they are, and it wouldn’t change anything re any custody issues. Those would be dealt with by a court.

Instead they fled and now they’re the subject of a nationwide FBI manhunt, I really don’t see how this fixes a custody dispute - if it exists. They certainly haven’t made anything better for themselves, or more importantly the children!

Supposedly Lori and Charles had been fighting in a custody dispute for years with JR, even to the extent of Lori making up lies that JR sexually abused Tylee in order to get him to back off wanting visitation.
JR did get visitation, and Tylee was able to re-establish a relationship with him in more recent years.

I’m actually amazed that the Woodcocks (or other of JJ’s biological family in Lake Charles) didn’t try to get custody of JJ after CV was shot. I think they should file immediately for an emergency order of temporary guardianship, which would allow an amber alert etc. to go out and maybe kidnapping charges?

it also seems like Lori (and niece Melani) really didn’t want to parent anymore - both women disappeared and others were caring for their children - so it doesn’t seem like Lori would even care about a custody battle - she didn’t want the kids. Melani didn’t even show up to contest her custody issues. But was prowling around BB’s parents house a week later?

 

[LogicbeforeJudgement]

Nope. Not referring to you specifically. But I will say that all of the things you are saying about having an open mind and things aren't always as they appear can be said in each and every missing case and in every crime case you can find here and the truth of the matter is that with very few exceptions in those thousands of cases everything is as it appears. This case will not be an exception. There are too many coordinated activities and movements by connected individuals (extends beyond the people we can talk about) to be mere coincidence.

There has actually been a lot of discussion, some as recently as yesterday, as to what exactly made something a cult, and what we know or think we know about this situation supports that term in regards to Chad and Lori. It was also discussed that the contention of involvement in a cult was *mostly* coming from Kay although there have been multiple people with some knowledge of AVOW who think there is cultish behavior there as well.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Avocado49]

As far as custody issues, none of that explains why they fled from law enforcement. The police had no power to take the children that day, it was a simple welfare check. They could have just shown the children, wherever they are, and it wouldn’t change anything re any custody issues. Those would be dealt with by a court.

Instead they fled and now they’re the subject of a nationwide FBI manhunt, I really don’t see how this fixes a custody dispute - if it exists. They certainly haven’t made anything better for themselves, or more importantly the children!

Supposedly Lori and Charles had been fighting in a custody dispute for years with JR, even to the extent of Lori making up lies that JR sexually abused Tylee in order to get him to back off wanting visitation.
JR did get visitation, and Tylee was able to re-establish a relationship with him in more recent years.

I’m actually amazed that the Woodcocks (or other of JJ’s biological family in Lake Charles) didn’t try to get custody of JJ after CV was shot. I think they should file immediately for an emergency order of temporary guardianship, which would allow an amber alert etc. to go out and maybe kidnapping charges?

it also seems like Lori (and niece Melani) really didn’t want to parent anymore - both women disappeared and others were caring for their children - so it doesn’t seem like Lori would even care about a custody battle - she didn’t want the kids. Melani didn’t even show up to contest her custody issues. But was prowling around BB’s parents house a week later?

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

It's not that I don't understand what any of you are saying. I just don't look at everything as it's concrete, if that makes sense. I look at the all the way around of things. Like many others, I thought too at first that these people were probably guilty, but then I started noticing things. Things I can't post here of course because they not permitted, but enough to make me have doubts as to some of the claims family is making. I'm one of those people who was wrongly accused so naturally, and I hope you can understand, I never want to see anyone be charged with something they may not have done. I'm not saying they haven't done anything, but merely what of they haven't. JMO

I also have been wrongly accused, so I totally get being leery. But her actions speak for themselves. She is not the martyr she likely thinks herself. She and Chad are not acting rationally. And you stated that you might not understand the premise of websleuths in it being a forum for discussion, but those of us who regularly follow and post know that things usually are what they seem, and in this case it sure points to mental illness, paranoia, possible premeditated murder, and evading LE, all of which indicates the children are in an extreme danger. One of the adages we frequently refer to is "when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras". Or in this case, 144,000 magical unicorn pegasus zebras. Moo.

 

[LogicbeforeJudgement]

Nope. Not referring to you specifically. But I will say that all of the things you are saying about having an open mind and things aren't always as they appear can be said in each and every missing case and in every crime case you can find here and the truth of the matter is that with very few exceptions in those thousands of cases everything is as it appears. This case will not be an exception. There are too many coordinated activities and movements by connected individuals (extends beyond the people we can talk about) to be mere coincidence.

There has actually been a lot of discussion, some as recently as yesterday, as to what exactly made something a cult, and what we know or think we know about this situation supports that term in regards to Chad and Lori. It was also discussed that the contention of involvement in a cult was *mostly* coming from Kay although there have been multiple people with some knowledge of AVOW who think there is cultish behavior there as well.

Thank you for clarifying.

What a terrible frustrating situation that must have been. Since you were subjected to such unthinkable false witness bearing, I assume you filed a slander lawsuit and it was a slam dunk. Have the evil liars in your case indeed been appropriately punished in their wallets?

No, I choose to leave those people alone. I know what they're like to deal with.

 

[Colorado303]

I can only assume that they aren't involved because they didn't buy into Chad and Lori's nonsensical beliefs if Chad shared them at all. He's just dad - not a god. I think this shows that he's not mentally ill. He doesn't believe his own lies enough to try to save his family. He just wants to associate with people that do.

Question for experienced websleuthers. This is only the third case I've followed here. How often do people who know or support people directed involved in the case come here and try to steer the conversation and sow seeds of doubt?

It’s not unusual for a few people close to the POI to still be in denial and post defensive positions. Seldom is there an organized effort that involves multiple posters who have no personal knowledge of the case.

MOO