Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #100

[gitana1]

@gitana1 , I used a photo program to turn the map you liked to the compass point NORTH already included in the map. I hope it helps.

Oh man. I just realized BTW. There WAS a compass on the map! I am truly an idiot.

Thank you everyone who tried to get it through my thick head.

Hangs head in shame.....

 

[Peppery]

I still think there was SA. He didn’t know he had a tight window of opportunity, didn’t know when they were to be picked up. I’m not so sure it’s as small as we think. Because cell service is spotty in places, we don’t know the Snapchat was actually sent at 2:07, it could’ve been 10-20 minutes earlier if Libby’s phone was trying and failing to connect to a cell tower. DG said he got there at 3:11, but did he instantly jump out of his car and start looking for them after the first missed call? Probably not. I know I wouldn’t. I’d wait in my car for 10-15 minutes, call again, maybe call KG again to verify plans. Once he started looking, he probably wasn’t shouting their names either. If BG was interrupted by DG searching and abandoned plan, he still could’ve had up to an hour and a half with them. Iirc, they were only supposed to be there about 90 minutes which surprised me. I just imagined afternoon in the park = a few hours.

 

[wary]

Just adding my thoughts on some of today's threads. I believe the killer may come and go from the Delphi area (someone who travels frequently for business, a university student etc.) If the murder was about power I envision the perpetrator as someone with anger issues who has had little power over events in his life. I do not believe Abby or Libby witnesses anything as it would likely be videotaped and found. The day before V day may be of significance. It is possible BG could be gay but unable to Express his preference due to being shunned by his family. Do not think drug related. There might be a high level of drug users in Delphi and drug related criminal activity but not high organized crime.

Are there any cases out there of male gays, conflicted or not, preferring to kill women or girls? How likely is it?

 

[TTF14]

When is Winter Break for University Students in the U.S. typically?

There isn't really anything that is "typical" except Christmas vacation.

 

[ocgrad]

@gitana1 I am reposting my overhead map again. North=up/south=down orientation. Just in case you missed it on the last page of the last thread. It has points of interest labelled.

View attachment 183337

link to a larger version of the same map: Imgur

Thank you!

 

[ilovechili]

Stats say most children who are abducted by perps are dead within two hours, if they are killed, I believe. This guy would have had two hours...though he did not need that long. No one was going to start a major search right at the time they did not show up as planned. And if he had them out of sight, which clearly he did, he had time to do what he wanted. It does not take very long to assault a young girl, or even two, if you have them in your power. My guess he was gone within an hour...well before any searching began.

He did not just kill them because they happened to be there. They served a purpose for him, and I can’t think of another reason an adult male murders young girls. It is basically agreed he did not know them. This crime fits a sexual crime in every way, imo. But of course we won’t ever know unless there is a trial one day.

Jmo

Stats do say that. I do wonder what they say about two being abducted at the same time.

This may well come out to be a typical statistical type of motive and case but it is different than most in a few ways.

Imo.

 

[Gumbeaux]

I think they were a proxy for his rage.

My guess is that this guy has a major issue with females, and is incapable of a normal romantic relationship with someone his age.

As a result, he hates women. The girls were just in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

BBM

Very astute! Regardless of scenarios, I believe you nailed the essence of this horrific crime.

 

[susiQ]

(bbm)

who are you referring to
the girls and witnesses were not there close to dark

I was replying to an earlier post that suggested he could have waited for a better time later in the day instead of doing this in broad daylight. That's what my response was. I was in no way implying anyone was there just before dark. That was exactly my point

 

[ab01]

Are there any cases out there of male gays, conflicted or not, preferring to kill women or girls? How likely is it?

Most cases I have seen where people kill because of sexual orientation confusion, are usually because they are disgusted that they are attracted to the same sex.

They almost certainly focus their rage on the object of their own urges that they themselves are disgusted by.

Which are those individuals of the same sex JMO

 

[cjack410]

Many of you have great points about the quick abduction and kill.

But, I still feel its possible he took them at gunpoint from the bridge, and walked them to an outbuilding or barn nearby. I have read that the property south of the bridge the family was out of town for many weeks. A local would have knowledge of this info.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact they are killed at 3pm near a popular walking/hiking trail and was fairly busy with people walking on a nice Feb day.

Surely someone would hear a struggle or screaming. I guess he could have had them tied up and gagged. But I don't think this scenario can be tossed out.

No screams heard, nothing. The family was searching the area from 4pm on until prob 2am. LE searched from 5:30 to 10 or 11 pm. No bodies discovered and they were eventually found not far from Abby's last know location at 2:07 on the bridge.

I think its possible they were not found on the 13th because they were not there. The bodies were left there early in the morning on the 14th.

He had most of the night with them.

 

[gitana1]

I keep thinking that, once found, he's going to have some kind of violent background. It may or may not have resulted in any arrests, but I bet there will people in his life who could come forward and give examples of things that he's done that were (for lack of better word), scary. JP hadn't killed anyone before Mr. and Mrs. Closs, but there were still some eye-raising anecdotes about him. Not as many as I expected them to find, but some. With BG I could see someone who's gotten in trouble with an employer for losing their temper, perhaps some DV issues with a former partner, maybe an assault charge that may have been later dropped. Something made him feel like he could do this. I don't think whatever that was has gone away.

Sorry, long answer. TLR He may not have any murders in his past, but I bet there is some anecdotal evidence of violence and I believe he could kill again.

I have wondered if he fit the loner type model likethe coward who took Jayme.

I'm thinking either 1) younger, alienated loner with not much of a background of violence, who has not killed before; 2) ex-military or LE with psych issues (not combat-related) who has killed before and fits sort of more organized serial killer type; 3) disorganized type with a long history of violence toward others, sexual assault, whether reported or not; 4) common rapist/sexual predator type who may not have killed before but doesn't control his impulses and stalked the girls when he saw them- opportunistic. Like Mollie Tibbett's killer.

 

[LadyL]

I was replying to an earlier post that suggested he could have waited for a better time later in the day instead of doing this in broad daylight. That's what my response was. I was in no way implying anyone was there just before dark. That was exactly my point

gotcha

thatèll teach me for not reading everything

 

[susiQ]

There isn't really anything that is "typical" except Christmas vacation.

Do they not have a week break in February? I only ask because they do here.

 

[crhedBngr]

Oh man. I just realized BTW. There WAS a compass on the map! I am truly an idiot.

Thank you everyone who tried to get it through my thick head.

Hangs head in shame.....

@gitana1 , I'm the same way with maps. DH has gone speeding past intersections while I'm still fumbling trying to read the stupid road map!

We invested in a Garmin GPS, which helps considerably.

<modsnip: off limits>

 

[wary]

Do they not have a week break in February? I only ask because they do here.

Nothing is standardized. You’d have to look up the particular university you were interested in, and check their schedule.

 

[Sneaker33]

When is Winter Break for University Students in the U.S. typically?

I think it depends on the school. It was from mid December to the end of January at my college. A student could also schedule classes to allow for a long weekend and today classwork can also be attended online.

 

[Krwiley60]

His chin and jaw are rather prominent in the sketch, but they don't look that out of line to me.

I agree with you. It’s hard to tell on a 2-d sketch (not much contouring or value). I don’t see his chin or jaw as being remarkable or distinct. Who was it that said he had a prominent chin?

 

[Charlot123]

In 1975 there was a murder of a teenage girl in a northern Indiana town. It remains unsolved. I have spoken with the victims sister and law enforcement because I am working on producing the story as a documentary. The UMC in that town was/has been connected to the case because it was suspected that the victim was having a secret relationship with someone from the church. This has not been confirmed by LE. Also his behavior changed significantly after the murder according to family members.

I know there were religious references made during the press conference. IMO the only way that connects any church to the perpetrator is if someone's behavior has changed and LE is aware of it.

So - I didn’t quite understand. Was

When is Winter Break for University Students in the U.S. typically?

School holidays in the United States - Wikipedia

• Christmas/Holiday & Winter break - December 23 to mid/end of January (winter term classes might be offered after New Year).
• Spring Break - one week in March or April, usually following Easter or Patriots' Day, and involving warm-weather trip traditions.

But if you are interested in IN, you could go to a specific college site and check.

Mid-February associates with Asian New Year, but I doubt that IN celebrates it.

 

[Boxer]

There is something that I can not fathom in this whole situation. It seems that many people assume it is sexual in nature. Supposedly.

But if that is the case, one doesn’t just kill and run. He wants some time with them. For this, the killer left surprisingly little time. And in general, abduction of two teenage girls in broad daylight leaves him zero time. Why not wait till the evening, a single person on the bridge? Makes no sense.

Unless he planned to return back? But he must have known that kids would be searched for.

MOO since the interest in the car parked at CPS I have been thinking again about the oddness of their path heading toward the back of the cemetery or road, along with the speed of the crime.

MOO that he was forcing them to the back of the cemetery, planning to gag and bind them there, then retrieve his vehicle from CPS drive to the cemetery, transfer them to his vehicle. MOO he then could out drive on east on secondary roads or west back to i25.
MOO girls got out of his control on the way so he killed them.

 

[cluciano63]

Not knowing how the girls were killed makes it difficult to bave an opinion as to whether he was there seeking a victim, or made use of whatever he normally carries on his person. There was no real reason to expect to encounter young females there on that day. I lean more toward him take advantage of an “opportunity” and that he probably carried a weapon of some kind on a regular basis, one intimidating enough to manage two teenagers. Just telling them to “go down the hill” without showing a weapon would be unlikely to result in obedience, as the girls were not young children, jmo. A threat must have been shown, imo.