Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110

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HEY YOU! said:
I agree, this explains a lot. That being said, I do hope they arrest him with enough to convict. Or that he does have a bit of conscience left as stated in press conference and comes forward to admit his guilt. The fact that he walked away from this crime on the actual paths means it deeply affected him even if he didn't think it would. He must have been full of a dark plan to kill these girls but after must have been in a tough mental state. So much so he forgot to hide himself from others after the crime. Was that the mistake that was mentioned?
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The only flaw in this is LE would know who the perp is, as they would know the identity of all witnesses. So why haven't they arrested him?
 
MJPeony said:
One of the things that’s been bothering me is that the video of BG was released just a couple of days after the murder to the public. So I feel like any witness descriptions of someone they saw that either looked suspicious, or who fit the description of who they thought they should be looking for was just that- trying to fit someone they saw with an image of who LE put out there from the beginning on video (or still shot at the time). The sketch was released months later, and aggregated from more than one person.

As we’ve discussed here before, it’s SO hard to remember the face and body and clothing of a random person that you were not specifically trying to “notice” when asked to recall them later. At best you get close. But many people (most I might argue) just have some vague idea and then try to fit in pieces with a sketch artist.

So the problem I have is that I feel the witness descriptions taken multiple days and weeks later would have been highly influenced by the video still shot. Whether the witness meant to or not. I just don’t have confidence that the subconscious of a witness wouldn’t start “remembering” characteristics of a stranger they saw that were swayed by the still image.

All to say- I can’t being myself to put much stock into every sighting of an OBG. Sure, someone probably saw the guy we all see in the bridge video (who definitely resembles that first sketch LE put out)- I don’t doubt that. But I have a hard time believing ALL of the sightings of a guy looking like that were necessarily accurate.

And then you have the possibility of some of the witness sightings of OBG are deceptive on purpose, and therefore not accurate.

Also, I’m personally not on board yet with the timeline that concludes the crime took place in 15 minutes. Which, as recently demonstrated, is what could legitimately be concluded if all of these supposed BG sightings were accurate. I don’t see that 15 minute time span very realistic.

So overall I’m not able to say with any confidence the recent timeline makes sense. All MOO. But I’m certainly impressed with all of the detailed discussion and maps and such. It’s very hard to keep track of all the “time stamps” and locations and you guys have done a great job.

MOO.
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The 15 minutes is based on the 2.30 BG on the bridge time which may not necessarily be correct. As several posters have said, that 2.30 time could be the beginning or the end of the recording. If BG appeared in the video shortly after the SC photo of Abbey (2.07) then the crime could have been within 30-35 minutes. (Remembering that BG is not in that SC photo ) Therefore it does depend on the accuracy of the 2.30 time on the bridge. It was quick, anyway.

ETA there are only 3 witnesses I believe, FSG, (two sightings) CME and the cemetery witness .
 
sunshineray said:
I don't understand why your post is ok, which shows a name but mine that stated that same name gets removed? It's confusing...oh well live and learn.
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I learnt from when I posted the link before. We are allowed to link to victims SM. But no screen shots (which I did do before too unwittingly and it got deleted) and I also mentioned the name (as you did) which got deleted too as he is not a named POI. So this time to answer the questioner, I only posted the allowed link. So I learned from my previous mistakes. :)
 
MJPeony said:
One of the things that’s been bothering me is that the video of BG was released just a couple of days after the murder to the public. So I feel like any witness descriptions of someone they saw that either looked suspicious, or who fit the description of who they thought they should be looking for was just that- trying to fit someone they saw with an image of who LE put out there from the beginning on video (or still shot at the time). The sketch was released months later, and aggregated from more than one person.

As we’ve discussed here before, it’s SO hard to remember the face and body and clothing of a random person that you were not specifically trying to “notice” when asked to recall them later. At best you get close. But many people (most I might argue) just have some vague idea and then try to fit in pieces with a sketch artist.

So the problem I have is that I feel the witness descriptions taken multiple days and weeks later would have been highly influenced by the video still shot. Whether the witness meant to or not. I just don’t have confidence that the subconscious of a witness wouldn’t start “remembering” characteristics of a stranger they saw that were swayed by the still image.

All to say- I can’t being myself to put much stock into every sighting of an OBG. Sure, someone probably saw the guy we all see in the bridge video (who definitely resembles that first sketch LE put out)- I don’t doubt that. But I have a hard time believing ALL of the sightings of a guy looking like that were necessarily accurate.

And then you have the possibility of some of the witness sightings of OBG are deceptive on purpose, and therefore not accurate.

Also, I’m personally not on board yet with the timeline that concludes the crime took place in 15 minutes. Which, as recently demonstrated, is what could legitimately be concluded if all of these supposed BG sightings were accurate. I don’t see that 15 minute time span very realistic.

So overall I’m not able to say with any confidence the recent timeline makes sense. All MOO. But I’m certainly impressed with all of the detailed discussion and maps and such. It’s very hard to keep track of all the “time stamps” and locations and you guys have done a great job.

MOO.
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I'm very much in agreement with you about the witness statements. I started making the map measurements just for myself, to see if the witness timelines made sense. They do, but in the back of my mind, I keep wondering how they had the times so precise? Were these people taking photos that they later referred to? Did GH or someone else influence those precise times? Were there so few people on the trail at the time that when they saw the video, they were sure they'd seen someone like that? Those are all valid questions, and the very reason I can't put a lot of weight into the witness statements alone.

It's a little unnerving to me how well the timeline fits, however. Almost too perfectly. That's why I wonder where those precise times came from.

All that being said, I do think 15 minutes is realistic. That's a long time. JMO
 
A very short Time line.

Killer contacted LG by Kik, set up meeting, had planned to SA and kill one girl, surprised by two, just killed them both and got out. Kik means no record of the contact.
MOO maybe this why there is no "before" in this crime to help police. There was a before but it was erased.
Leaving Just killer approaches, dead victims, killer gone
 
Abigail Williams & Liberty German. Delphi, IN. 2/13/17 - Google My Maps
As was talked about the other day, early on in the investigation, LE was asking if anyone was seen walking on Hoosier HWY between Logansport and Lafayette. They didn't ask about any other roads. Why is that?

And according to skibaboo's map, there was a road block on E Main St. near Hoosier HWY, and another south on the county road 625. As far as I've seen, there were no blocks anywhere east of the park. I don't know why, unless they had very viable information that lead them to believe he either headed west, or south. Anyone remember links supporting that?
 
Boxer said:
A very short Time line.

Killer contacted LG by Kik, set up meeting, had planned to SA and kill one girl, surprised by two, just killed them both and got out. Kik means no record of the contact.
MOO maybe this why there is no "before" in this crime to help police. There was a before but it was erased.
Leaving Just killer approaches, dead victims, killer gone
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Has it been verified Kik was used?
I am trying to keep up with the thread, but it’s weighty.

Even if it poofed, there is still a way to extract the “transaction”, although requires very sophisticated measures. It can be done.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
Thelastleg said:
My reasoning is that although LE said to disregard the OBG sketch, the person on the bridge in the video, the OGB Sketch and the New Sketch are all the same person. I think they realised that the OBG Sketch was based on the witness statement of the actual Perp, who described what Bridge guy, himself, had been wearing. Then a new witness came forward and gave LE details of a person leaving the trail, however he looked different to the perp as he had disgarded the disguise over clothing etc at this stage. Don't know what he did with the clothes. Perhaps he had a back pack under the baggy jacket and was able to put the outer clothing into that and casually slung it over his should to dispose of away from the Crime Scene. The lay witness may have gave them information that contradicted what the Perp had made in his statement. This is just my opinion but it makes sense of why LE changed direction in their strategy.
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LE has publicly stated that the two sketches ARE NOT the same person.
 
rosesfromangels said:
Has it been verified Kik was used?
I am trying to keep up with the thread, but it’s weighty.

Even if it poofed, there is still a way to extract the “transaction”, although requires very sophisticated measures. It can be done.

Amateur opinion and speculation
Click to expand...

I did not know there could be a transaction record in Kik for the police to recover. Interesting, no transactions would eliminate Kik as a possible tool for a set up.
 
TL4S said:
I'm very much in agreement with you about the witness statements. I started making the map measurements just for myself, to see if the witness timelines made sense. They do, but in the back of my mind, I keep wondering how they had the times so precise? Were these people taking photos that they later referred to? Did GH or someone else influence those precise times? Were there so few people on the trail at the time that when they saw the video, they were sure they'd seen someone like that? Those are all valid questions, and the very reason I can't put a lot of weight into the witness statements alone.

It's a little unnerving to me how well the timeline fits, however. Almost too perfectly. That's why I wonder where those precise times came from.

All that being said, I do think 15 minutes is realistic. That's a long time. JMO
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BBM

I respect your opinion, but I do not think it’s realistic in this case.

Is it theoretically possible? Sure. But I think it’s highly unlikely. 15 minutes is the absolute minimum amount of time, IMO, the event could have taken place and would have required everything going just right. Moving at quickest speed, essentially no resistance from girls, no obstacles of any kind encountered, simple and easy murder, etc. I just don’t think it’s at all likely in real life.

I don’t put a lot of stock into the LE comment “this video was taken minutes before criminal activity occurred.” Meaning, I believe that statement to be true but the word “minutes” has multiple interpretations, and “criminal activity” doesn’t have to mean completed murder and done at the crime scene. It could mean he brandished a gun, etc.

I could certainly be wrong when the details finally come out, but for now I do not think 15 minutes makes sense.

All JMO.
 
newredtabby said:
LE has publicly stated that the two sketches ARE NOT the same person.
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You know, bottom line, the sketches are less important to me than the actual photo grabs taken from her video as well as the voice. Sketch A or B probably have no impact. If someone recognizes them, I think it would be from the photo anyway. Just my 2 cents worth.
 
newredtabby said:
LE has publicly stated that the two sketches ARE NOT the same person.
Click to expand...
I believe that is LE's intended message, but it depends on which LE you listen to and when. At the 22 April PC, the ISP Superintendent indicated the original sketch was now 'secondary' and the new one 'primary. After the PC a clarification was put out that the first sketch was no longer relevant. (That would indicate to me they ARE NOT the same person.) Then 2-3 weeks after the PC, ISP Superintendent, in a news interview, indicates that the killer could be a combination of both sketches. (So now they're the SAME person?)
 
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