Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #148

[AC4RD]

BG is not overweight by any scale..he is rather bulky because of what he is wearing..there are stuff inside his jacket not a bulging stomach ..like the time when the zodiac was seen with a bulging BELLY and it was thought to be the ropes he used to tie his victims at LB
also KAK was never thin.. they say thinner .. he is still massive built and massive belly that you cant hide
I need to sketch that to show the improbability

This is almost 100% my own ideas about this! There are "Tools of Evil" under that BG blue jacket, I'm sure, including a gun. We actually do have a photo from the Las Vegas trip with KAK's dad, remember? At the Hoover Dam. KAK looked like Poppin' Fresh in the arrest photo, but in the Hoover Dam photo (I'll attach if I can find it) he's just a stocky kid--just as you say.

My own belief, opinion, and thought is that KAK is not 6' tall, no way. For a lot of years I did pulmonary testing at a university hospital, and needing an accurate height and weight is important. Lots of people say they're 6' but they're really 5'10 or even 5'9"--which is what I think KAK is, based on the photo with his dad. MHO. At the booking desk, did they measure KAK's height and weight, or just ask him, or just estimate?

I've said it before, and it's just my opinion and all, but I think KAK and BG could easily be the same guy, based solely on my own observation. Darned sure could be wrong, don't argue with anybody who doesn't think so (most of y'all, I believe) ;-) ... but that's my belief. EDIT TO ADD: The photo I found isn't the right one; KAK on the left isn't "date unknown," we know it was a visit to the Las Vegas area, must be 2017. The one I wanted also showed his (taller) father next to him. But you get the idea from this one. Thanks! --ken

 

[sandy_80]

This is almost 100% my own ideas about this! There are "Tools of Evil" under that BG blue jacket, I'm sure, including a gun. We actually do have a photo from the Las Vegas trip with KAK's dad, remember? At the Hoover Dam. KAK looked like Poppin' Fresh in the arrest photo, but in the Hoover Dam photo (I'll attach if I can find it) he's just a stocky kid--just as you say.

My own belief, opinion, and thought is that KAK is not 6' tall, no way. For a lot of years I did pulmonary testing at a university hospital, and needing an accurate height and weight is important. Lots of people say they're 6' but they're really 5'10 or even 5'9"--which is what I think KAK is, based on the photo with his dad. MHO. At the booking desk, did they measure KAK's height and weight, or just ask him, or just estimate?

I've said it before, and it's just my opinion and all, but I think KAK and BG could easily be the same guy, based solely on my own observation. Darned sure could be wrong, don't argue with anybody who doesn't think so (most of y'all, I believe) ;-) ... but that's my belief. EDIT TO ADD: The photo I found isn't the right one; KAK on the left isn't "date unknown," we know it was a visit to the Las Vegas area, must be 2017. The one I wanted also showed his (taller) father next to him. But you get the idea from this one. Thanks! --ken

so while he is wearing a tight (black) shirt to give a thinner effect .. he is still massive ..did you think how he would look like with a bulky jacket ? .. bg wasnt massive and didnt have the big belly that KAK has
we can not argue about what we see..cause clearly we don't see the same thing
its subjective then
<modsnip>

 

[crussell821]

Based on the questioning in the LE interview transcripts, seems KAK’s phone was at the home on Country club road, accessing CSAM, during the crime … fwiw

Worst. alibi. ever.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

It's a terrible thought, but apparently even the FBI figured this type of killer would take photos or videos of the crime scene in order to memorialize or share it, according to the RL affidavit.

L's family has already confirmed that L was communicating with a_shots. If we believe LE, KAK's dropbox was sharing CSAM links, which started the largest CSAM investigation in Indiana state history. This circles right back to the idea of the killer taking photos and sharing it. If I had to guess, I think that dropbox is key. If images of the CS were downloaded into that dropbox and links were shared (by anyone), that is another direct connection between KAK (or whoever had access to his a_shots and dropbox accounts) and L, even if there's no proof KAK himself was at the CS that day. The image source had to be a specific device, which can apparently be traced from the image itself, but I'm wondering if LE really just needs that device in their hand. Maybe it's in the Wabash River near Peru.

IIRC, LE said that it was “one of the largest”, not “the largest”.

Reference: Page 52, line 14 of the transcript is where the detective’s comment originated:

“Bud, from your dropbox account off of your phone, we have started one of the largest child *advertiser censored* investigations ever undertaken in the history of Indiana.”
https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews....-Kline-10-19-2-FINAL-VERSION-Redacted-1-1.pdf

 

[TL4S]

IIRC, LE said that it was “one of the largest”, not “the largest”.

Reference: Page 52, line 14 of the transcript is where the detective’s comment originated:

“Bud, from your dropbox account off of your phone, we have started one of the largest child *advertiser censored* investigations ever undertaken in the history of Indiana.”
https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews....-Kline-10-19-2-FINAL-VERSION-Redacted-1-1.pdf

Yes, you are correct. Thank you!

 

[Falling Down]

It's a terrible thought, but apparently even the FBI figured this type of killer would take photos or videos of the crime scene in order to memorialize or share it, according to the RL affidavit.

L's family has already confirmed that L was communicating with a_shots. If we believe LE, KAK's dropbox was sharing CSAM links, which started the largest CSAM investigation in Indiana state history. This circles right back to the idea of the killer taking photos and sharing it. If I had to guess, I think that dropbox is key. If images of the CS were downloaded into that dropbox and links were shared (by anyone), that is another direct connection between KAK (or whoever had access to his a_shots and dropbox accounts) and L, even if there's no proof KAK himself was at the CS that day. The image source had to be a specific device, which can apparently be traced from the image itself, but I'm wondering if LE really just needs that device in their hand. Maybe it's in the Wabash River near Peru.

I keep going back to the "twist" mentioned early on, and the April 2019 PC with the "new direction" in the case. At the same time, LE were awfully hush hush about why there was a "twist" at the CS, and why there was a "new direction" April of '19.

They also poo pooed any idea of social media being involved in the case, then all of a sudden Dec. of 2021 they send out a bulletin about a_shots, and tips being called in using the Delphi case number.

IMO part of BG's thrill is he gets off on playing with LE, which makes me wonder if something left at the CS was kind of the beginning of the cat-and-mouse game he was going to play. Sharing images of the CS online would be the icing on that cake for BG.

 

[sunshineray]

I keep going back to the "twist" mentioned early on, and the April 2019 PC with the "new direction" in the case. At the same time, LE were awfully hush hush about why there was a "twist" at the CS, and why there was a "new direction" April of '19.

They also poo pooed any idea of social media being involved in the case, then all of a sudden Dec. of 2021 they send out a bulletin about a_shots, and tips being called in using the Delphi case number.

IMO part of BG's thrill is he gets off on playing with LE, which makes me wonder if something left at the CS was kind of the beginning of the cat-and-mouse game he was going to play. Sharing images of the CS online would be the icing on that cake for BG.

IMO, the "twist" mentioned very early on was the fact that one of the victims actually took video and audio of her assumed killer...and that media evidence survived the crime.

 

[Charlot123]

One thing that I've always found strange was how quickly the FBI became involved in this case. In the past that was downplayed and people said and believed it was because 'an FBI agent happened to be in the area / visiting someone in the area' and helped with the search.

Mmmm... I don't know if that warrants getting the FBI involved... Sure if an agent was around they might help with the search, but that wouldn't be a justifiable reason for getting the FBI officially involved so quickly.

It makes me wonder if the FBI was already working on a case, possibly this CSAM case, and immediately thought these murders could relate to that case...

Until this case is solved and closed, that FBI agent is exactly in the same position as everyone else present in Delphi on that day. However, his involvement could have been automatic, the same way a doctor or a nurse on board the plane would offer help if a passenger gets sick. JMO.

 

[FromGermany1]

IMO, the "twist" mentioned very early on was the fact that one of the victims actually took video and audio of her assumed killer...and that media evidence survived the crime.

I believe, the "twist" was something negative and made the investigation more difficult from then on. Did they get on the trail of CYBERCRIME/PRON and so on? IMO

 

[TL4S]

On Feb. 21, 2017, a week after the bodies were found, LE released the "DTH" audio for the first time (the photo had been released a few days prior on Feb. 15, 2017). Here's what LE said at that time:

LISTEN: Police release audio from teen's cell phone in Delphi murder investigation

The grainy photo police released was taken on the popular Monon High Bridge. Police say the picture has already been enhanced, and their description is no better than a white male in a blue jacket and blue jeans.

"We can't provide height or weight," Slocum said. "The picture speaks for itself."​

IMO, if LE had people enhancing the photo, I think they would have come up with a height/weight during that time, as well, if they were going to use the image as their basis for that. To me, this might point to a witness(es) being the source for the description, which has now been removed. So now we have the same old argument of witness reliability. JMO.

 

[sunshineray]

One thing that I've always found strange was how quickly the FBI became involved in this case. In the past that was downplayed and people said and believed it was because 'an FBI agent happened to be in the area / visiting someone in the area' and helped with the search.

Mmmm... I don't know if that warrants getting the FBI involved... Sure if an agent was around they might help with the search, but that wouldn't be a justifiable reason for getting the FBI officially involved so quickly.

It makes me wonder if the FBI was already working on a case, possibly this CSAM case, and immediately thought these murders could relate to that case...

I think you could be right. The early search on Bicycle Bridge Road involved the FBI also.

"There was a large Indiana State Police presence, along with the FBI and Carroll County Sheriff's Department, as investigators served a search warrant around 7 p.m."

Search warrant served at Delphi family farm in connection with two murdered teens investigation

Whatever investigators took out of a house in the 11000 block of Bicycle Bridge Road Thursday night, it certainly wasn't anyone in handcuffs.

www.google.com

 

[sunshineray]

I'd wondered about this early on, perhaps images were produced at the CS and shared on some sites online.

I also wonder if the item ISP is searching the Wabash for could be tied to that...possibly a phone?

 

[Kittybunny]

It's been quite awhile since I chimed in here, but I read every post and appreciate the detailed discussion and those who have the ability to sort through KAKs blathering lies and the horrible CSAM nuances. These insights have helped me move my position on KAK a long way from where I started, which was that this CSAM investigation, while important in and of itself, was a bit of a red herring and potentially unrelated, though certainly very coincidental. Now I'm about 50/50 as to whether KAK is the killer. And while it's certainly true that law-enforcement has a lot more information than we do, what really worries me is that KAK is the killer but law-enforcement cannot prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

There is certainly a lot of circumstantial evidence which in and of itself of course carries weight. But is it enough? Not for me, not yet. The way I see it is there is a black hole on the actual day of the murders and on the crime scene. What specific evidence places KAK on the Monon High Bridge and/or at the crime scene? A vehicle, a fingerprint, DNA, his cell pings, his blood, one of the girl's blood on something of his...that day. Right there. His and only his.

I worry that that missed phone he was able to wipe is the one thing that could have tied him to this crime more directly, but that evidence is long gone. I see a lot of evidence leading up to that day that could connect him to Libby, and I see some behavior after that day that certainly perhaps speaks to a guilty conscience, but I have yet to see anything really convincing for that specific day. It's not to say that LE doesn't have it, it's just that I personally haven't seen anything to indicate they do. I think that is the one thing that they need, because when combined with everything else they do have and that we are aware of it at least, that could be enough to push me over the fence, and more importantly, LE to make an arrest.

 

[TL4S]

On pages 70/71 of the interview transcripts, LE is reading a 2016 chat between emilyanne and a 16 year old girl. It's emilyanne asking the 16 year old if she'd do stuff with emilyanne's 40 year old dad, which is later said to be almost 43 years old. The girl asks for a photo, which emilyanne sends. They later move to a Skype call, supposedly between the girl and the "dad." Now, I get it, the girl most likely never saw the "dad's" face, but still, maybe she heard his voice? And what photo was sent of the "dad"? I'm sure it was another fake photo, but I'm curious.

All that aside, it made me start to think about the second sketch. A lot of people said it could be the a_shots model, which never worked for me because LE said it was the face of the man on the bridge. The model was never on the bridge. But, what if it is the face of a man in photos given online to girls, like in the example above? Maybe a younger photo of the user himself? Maybe it fits better with the age they were giving girls online? "Looks younger than his age." IDK...

LE did say the old sketch and young sketch were not the same person, so who knows. Now that we know fake online personas were potentially involved, it just leaves the screen door open and swinging in the wind.

 

[sunshineray]

It's been quite awhile since I chimed in here, but I read every post and appreciate the detailed discussion and those who have the ability to sort through KAKs blathering lies and the horrible CSAM nuances. These insights have helped me move my position on KAK a long way from where I started, which was that this CSAM investigation, while important in and of itself, was a bit of a red herring and potentially unrelated, though certainly very coincidental. Now I'm about 50/50 as to whether KAK is the killer. And while it's certainly true that law-enforcement has a lot more information than we do, what really worries me is that KAK is the killer but law-enforcement cannot prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

There is certainly a lot of circumstantial evidence which in and of itself of course carries weight. But is it enough? Not for me, not yet. The way I see it is there is a black hole on the actual day of the murders and on the crime scene. What specific evidence places KAK on the Monon High Bridge and/or at the crime scene? A vehicle, a fingerprint, DNA, his cell pings, his blood, one of the girl's blood on something of his...that day. Right there. His and only his.

I worry that that missed phone he was able to wipe is the one thing that could have tied him to this crime more directly, but that evidence is long gone. I see a lot of evidence leading up to that day that could connect him to Libby, and I see some behavior after that day that certainly perhaps speaks to a guilty conscience, but I have yet to see anything really convincing for that specific day. It's not to say that LE doesn't have it, it's just that I personally haven't seen anything to indicate they do. I think that is the one thing that they need, because when combined with everything else they do have and that we are aware of it at least, that could be enough to push me over the fence, and more importantly, LE to make an arrest.

Can't forget to throw into the mix the the mention, by KAK himself in the Barbara McDonald jailhouse interview, that LE told KAK they thought his father killed the girls.

Then there's all the questions about KAK's father using KAK's phones in the Peru house asked by LE in that 194 page redacted interrogation.

Yes LE can lie during questioning but that doesn't mean they DO lie all the time.

Same with KAK, is he lying about everything he says?

 

[JnRyan]

Same with KAK, is he lying about everything he says?

An accomplished liar - and I believe is likely KAK is - knows how to sprinkle some truth or at least believable items in their stories. That is one of my two problems with the the August 2020 interrogation. How much of what KAK says is the truth? Probably very little, but which items are and do they impact the case? The other is LE is allowed to lie to the subject. How much of what they are saying is a lie, if there are any, and, if so, how do they impact any conclusion we could reach on that interview? Everything LE is saying MIGHT be the truth, but how do we know?

Then we have the Barbara McDonald interview where KAK can lie without being charged with lying to LE.

For myself, I see just enough to see that LE is looking at KAK for something broader in scope and that may or may not have anything to do with the murders.

 

[sunshineray]

An accomplished liar - and I believe is likely KAK is - knows how to sprinkle some truth or at least believable items in their stories. That is one of my two problems with the the August 2020 interrogation. How much of what KAK says is the truth? Probably very little, but which items are and do they impact the case? The other is LE is allowed to lie to the subject. How much of what they are saying is a lie, if there are any, and, if so, how do they impact any conclusion we could reach on that interview? Everything LE is saying MIGHT be the truth, but how do we know?

Then we have the Barbara McDonald interview where KAK can lie without being charged with lying to LE.

For myself, I see just enough to see that LE is looking at KAK for something broader in scope and that may or may not have anything to do with the murders.

I think it has to do with the murders because of the anthony_shots account. All those communications with Libby on the IP of that house in Peru. That does it for me.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I see a lot of evidence leading up to that day that could connect him to Libby, and I see some behavior after that day that certainly perhaps speaks to a guilty conscience, but I have yet to see anything really convincing for that specific day.

RSBM
You really think that KAK has a conscience? Let alone a guilty one!?
He looks dead in the eyes to me. That sociopathic dead, hollow, vacant look in the eyes, IMO.

(Also, it’s nice to see you back on the thread.)

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Can't forget to throw into the mix the the mention, by KAK himself in the Barbara McDonald jailhouse interview, that LE told KAK they thought his father killed the girls.

Then there's all the questions about KAK's father using KAK's phones in the Peru house asked by LE in that 194 page redacted interrogation.

Yes LE can lie during questioning but that doesn't mean they DO lie all the time.

Same with KAK, is he lying about everything he says?

Lie or no lie from KAK and/or LE, I personally feel that TK could be BG, more so than I think KAK is BG.

mOo

 

[JnRyan]

RSBM
You really think that KAK has a conscience? Let alone a guilty one!?
He looks dead in the eyes to me. That sociopathic dead, hollow, vacant look in the eyes, IMO.

(Also, it’s nice to see you back on the thread.)

Whether or not he has even the slightest connection to the murder, he is for sure only out for KAK. He is without a doubt a sociopath of the lowest degree. I wouldn't doubt if he doesn't have the slightest connection to the murders and is playing this out through his lies for the best possible result for himself alone. He could care less about the murders unless he can find some advantage for himself. You're right, just watch his eyes.