Killer Cults?

[DeltaDawn]

Welcome to the River Killers case Capt. What does hipaa have to do with this..confidentality over medical records..so either you saw something or someone told you something in medical confidence..interesting.

Also I have done some research into Berkowitz. The detectives on his case as well as the prosecutor felt he did not act alone and the case was reopened in the mid to late 90's. They believe this was a group effort, that he was at each of the murders, but wasn't the shooter at each murder. He also did belong to a cult at that time, that LE was aware of. And he has spoken about briefly, Manson II, whether that was another group or an individual was never clear. Right after that he had his throat slit in prison..and he refuses to speak about it any longer.

As far as Mason goes if he wasn't running his own version of a killer cult then I don't know how someone would describe what the Manson did..they murdered people and continued to murder people even after he was arrested. He even ran a website from prison.

 

[Capt.]

some physical, mental injuries, and first hand accounts from participants.

In short HIPAA deals with confidentiality of client concerns within health care.

 

[Blink34]

Um ok, got it.

Then can I ask you a general question, non specific to any member-

Who makes up these groups and what do they worship, what is their end goal?
Are there any similarities to the victims in these cases of young men?

 

[Capt.]

Not really sure I could say they really worship anything. Maybe appreciate darkness of humanity, esoteric knowledge, growth of self and mainly control. I believe their goals are related to that, and the individual seeking of identity, meaning, and value. I don't see similarities to the victims being all young men. Maybe that is because it might be easier to lure men by women?

 

[Indigator]

Capt-As long is it is non-identifiable information, you don't need to be concerned about HIPAA. Theoretically, you can discuss any clinical case as long as you don't discuss WHO the case is about.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, Capt.! You have certainly caught my attention here. I understand the rules, but if you are not discussing specific medically related issues or divulging the origins...you would not be going against HIPAA. Then again, I am not a lawyer.

Generalizing the concept of this widebased cult theory, is it associated with a "hazing" process to prove their loyalty or to enter a cult? Are they professional people (college graduates)? Are they related to colleges in such a way that would put them in contact with the victims besides being in a bar?

 

[Capt.]

Capt-As long is it is non-identifiable information, you don't need to be concerned about HIPAA. Theoretically, you can discuss any clinical case as long as you don't discuss WHO the case is about.

Another problem is, giving information that can place someone in danger by identifing methods and situations related to that person by others in the group. I'll give what I feel I can give safely for those involved. I am sure if one of the group read what I have wrote so far, they would know I am talking about them. Because this was in a health care situation, I am more concerned with the individuals health than I am trying to solve some crime which if I did, would only be by some "ham fisted" attempt.

Welcome to WS, Capt.! You have certainly caught my attention here. I understand the rules, but if you are not discussing specific medically related issues or divulging the origins...you would not be going against HIPAA. Then again, I am not a lawyer.

Generalizing the concept of this widebased cult theory, is it associated with a "hazing" process to prove their loyalty or to enter a cult? Are they professional people (college graduates)? Are they related to colleges in such a way that would put them in contact with the victims besides being in a bar?

I would say most if not all are college graduates and professional people. They do not need the colleges for victims. It is my belief that their own group provides many victims. Might be able to call it hazing after a year or so. More so, I do feel they want the members to "believe" they are guilty of a felony for control over them.

 

[Blink34]

Another problem is, giving information that can place someone in danger by identifing methods and situations related to that person by others in the group. I'll give what I feel I can give safely for those involved. I am sure if one of the group read what I have wrote so far, they would know I am talking about them. Because this was in a health care situation, I am more concerned with the individuals health than I am trying to solve some crime which if I did, would only be by some "ham fisted" attempt.



I would say most if not all are college graduates and professional people. They do not need the colleges for victims. It is my belief that their own group provides many victims. Might be able to call it hazing after a year or so. More so, I do feel they want the members to "believe" they are guilty of a felony for control over them.

Capt- Im really appreciative of your input and am sensitive to your conerns of course, but to what end does a ritual or sacrifice matter for them in the aforementioned areas?
ie: Killer A sacrifices his vic for the reason he thinks it will bring success and money.
Killer B offers a sacrifice for the group for all to prosper
Killer C tortures vic to keep those in line

Can you suggest a scenario along those lines based on your expereince?

 

[Indigator]

I am confused. Sometimes it doesn't take much.

 

[Blink34]

I am confused. Sometimes it doesn't take much.

from my post Indie?

 

[Indigator]

Not just your post-the whole cult thing. I have trouble understanding this and probably should do some background reading. I don't understand the line of thinking that Cap'n is explaining and the questions make it even more confusing to me.

 

[Indigator]

Just overall with the conversation

 

[Blink34]

May be me, Im having trouble asking it correctly-
I want any theory on why men are dieing potentially, at the hands of a cult as the theory is being explored. Im not familiar with a "cult" sacrificing anything without a motive. I was hoping Capt, could shed some light-

 

[Indigator]

Maybe the motive is simply to please the gods, very primitive but certainly around for a long time...please the gods and get favors in return.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I would say most if not all are college graduates and professional people. They do not need the colleges for victims. It is my belief that their own group provides many victims. Might be able to call it hazing after a year or so. More so, I do feel they want the members to "believe" they are guilty of a felony for control over them.

So they are intelligent. They are controlling over others in the group. They insure their silence by creating scenarios where they are led to believe they will go to jail when in fact...they could be innocent. Others in the group did not gain their status until a couple of years into it after they "proved" themselves to be loyal and willing participants. Colleges aren't the key which leaves the bars, the bands, the streets, LE, friends, and families.

Am I off base on what I gleaned from your comment?

 

[Eire]

Ok not debating the editorial integrity of Geraldo, but how can anyone say Manson was not part of a murderous cult? That would seem a matter of fact- no?

Manson was not part of the Process Church, that's what I'm saying. There are those who would link Manson, Son of Sam and Zodiac to the same group which they believe is a wide-spread Satanic murder cult. No such thing exists.

 

[Eire]

Not to be rude, snide or otherwise snotty, but we had this discussion on the Johnny Gosch thread. Apparently, the Temple of Set is behind everything form Johnny Gosch to this case if you believe the heavy hint dropping. Again, I'm sincerely not trying to be rude, but the conspiracy theories about some deep rooted, Satanic group operating underground for decades don't serve us well as they are unfounded. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinions. This is pretty much why I'm so prickly about the subject of cult killings. Every time they get brought up, the same Satanic cult things get thrown out there and they are not true. HIPPA laws don't apply to naming a group in public anyway, they only apply to naming a specific patient who is or was under one's care.

Simply put, there are those who would love to turn this into another Johnny Gosch conspiracy theory festival.

 

[Blink34]

Eire-
I have read your posts with great interest, and frankly have been educated by them on subject matter that is new to me personally.

That being said, let's establish that there ARE several occurances, in history, that have had some sort of verifiable, floabw, cult undercurrent or involvement. That is not a slam on Paganism or Satanism, because that I am aware, neither of those followings openly or otherwise condones ritualistic murder or other. People imo, who want to do things that are by all of our agreements "evil"- are going to do what they have to to reign others in under some guise, or in some cases, fear. I would like to refer to them going forward as fringe. I say that because it is no different than I feel when I see someone/occurance that is manifested in God's name. I am christian, and I have never been told by my higher power to marry a dude with 7 wives, throw my baby in the bathtub or stalk young males.

Like it or not, if even 2 of these cases are connected, and personally I feel there are several, this IS a conspiracy. You can't blame an entire religion (whether you believe in it's teachings or not) because it is the PEOPLE that commit these crimes, because they have the need to justify the actions they seemed to be called from a very young age. I may take the heat for this, but I truly believe that sometimes people are born evil, pure and simple. They simply find the inspiration out there to develop themselves, or group, to commit evil upon others.

 

[Eire]

And I would agree with you, but blaming one specific group which has nothing at all to do with any of the horrible things we read about is wrong. It is wrong and it is irresponsible. This isn't the first time people have come here trying to blame the Temple of Set for things they had nothing to do with and I feel that is irresponsible and I will speak up about it. He's not talking about one person in a group, he's talking about the entire group. One person killing people is not a conspiracy. Two people is not a conspiracy. Blaming an entire group and in this case an entire religion is. That is exactly what happened in the Johnny Gosch thread and that's what's going to happen here. We'll just blame the Satanists because we want to. It's easier to let that myth cloud our judgment than it is to look at anything else. Trying to be the voice of reason on the subject is especially difficult around here.

 

[Blink34]

Unless I'm missing it, I dont see anyone doing that, I have seen references to KNOWN cases where some stated religious or cult influences which are self-proclaimed and verifiable facts in investigations. So, again. basically, just stating the possibility of an origin of someone's membership or knowledge base of a specific belief system is not indicting the rest and respectfully, imo, your running the risk of "reverse conspiracying" by being cart blanche defensive about known facts. I'm intersted in finding the people responsible for whatever crimes were committed to these young men, NOT a witch hunt. I personally loathe Jim Jones but I still let my kids drink Kool-Aid on occasion. Point is, Im not going to blame an entire group for the acts of a fringe former or other member- I feel WS posts so far are able to seperate and be objective. Your a good source of info and a good contributor to this thread, for me your religion or congregates in general are not being examined here so carry on