OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#47

[Loomis124]

RW from BBL has a real estate business in Fla and CRsr worked for RW. Perhaps RW had work for him to do down there.

If RW of BBL was guilty of anything pertinent to these murders, he would have been indicted and charged. So I stand with the Investigators and their choices based on the cold hard evidence, some of which we've already seen in Discovery documents. JMHO

 

[sunshineray]

One poster recently asked about RJN's charges and how the other Ws could be charged with forgery. Please see her Discovery below. But most importantly, Google the exact name of the document they created and forged: Declaration of Appointment of Guardian for my Children in the Event of my Death or Incapacity.

Newcomb Discovery

Oh my God! Well that sheds some light does it not? That just gave me the chills reading it. It makes me wonder greatly now if RN did know ahead of time what was planned. AJMO

 

[molly1255]

Bless your heart for your post. So true. We are here for the victims, not the killers.

Bless your heart, too. That's why we are here.

 

[Fletcher73]

RSBM And there are, no doubt, intact families where one of the children isn't the biological child of the father. That's why no one insists on DNA testing as a routine birth procedure, unless there's a paternity dispute. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, especially when you're talking about the care and support of children.

I might add, it used to be that if you were married to the mother at the time of birth, you were legally the father of the child, even if people swore you weren't, which meant the legal father was obligated to pay child support in the event the marriage was ended. At least that was the law in Alaska - things may be different now, since DNA testing can be so incredibly precise.

 

[sunshineray]

Sunshine, I should have worded my reply better. We have no problem so you don't need to apologize to me.

I haven't seen any proof that HR took JW to court. If that happened, then I think that it would change my thinking on many things. I have read on here that she did and I wish that someone would verify that. I have read on here that BW and possibly AW received Social Security disability benefits too. I have asked on here if anyone knows that as a fact but I haven't seen that answered.

I believe (but I hope that I am wrong) that if SW is in foster care and JW wants to see SW then they will be legally required to take her to visit him since he hasn't been found guilty yet. If he is found guilty and she wants to visit him then I don't know how it could be stopped either.

No worries OhioBlues, thanks.

 

[Fletcher73]

Yes but I was saying wouldn't they have done a paternity test/DNA when HR was still alive and JW was asked for support money? If he is found guilty of the cold-blood killing of her mother, I have doubts that he could press a case that says she must visit him in jail. jmo

We don't know if HMR had ever tried to get child support from JW. That's never been brought up, iirc, and it doesn't appear JW had any steady work that could have provided a basis for a decree of support.

 

[OhioBlues]

IMO, no. Quite the opposite, as of now. SW is no where close to seeing any of her family, least of all, her daddy's who are all charged out the yazoo. JMO She is NO LONGER in his custody. She is a ward of the State and has an appointed legal guardian to watch over her affairs. Link posted earlier.

When I post something, it isn't because it's what I WISH to happen. I am only posting what I think might be legally required. There is a famous case in Florida where the father had custody of the kids while he was out on bail and the kids visited him in jail.

 

[sunshineray]

Exactly. Thank you. It isn't difficult to find in CRSR'S probate records, which 99% of posters know how to find quickly. JMO and thank you.

I was looking at those too, they just recently appointed a guardian for SW's interests in CRSR's estate also.

 

[sunshineray]

We don't know if HMR had ever tried to get child support from JW. That's never been brought up, iirc, and it doesn't appear JW had any steady work that could have provided a basis for a decree of support.

Yes thanks Fletcher. I had thought someone had posted that they looked it up and she did. I was wrong, apologies.

 

[molly1255]

Oh my God! Well that sheds some light does it not? That just gave me the chills reading it. It makes me wonder greatly now if RN did know ahead of time what was planned. AJMO

I agree. My guess is she probably knew JW was trying to get custody of SW and that HR refused.

If she didn't know what this was adding up to when she notarized it, it should have hit her like a ton of bricks when she learned about the murders.

She's also accused of lying to the grand jury. Her defense ought to be interesting.

It doesn't appear JW ever used these papers to get custody of SW but went the route of claiming her was her father. Of course, he didn't leave anyone alive who could oppose him in court. These papers make me wonder if the original plan was to murder only HR ?

 

[Satchie]

It doesn't appear JW ever used these papers to get custody of SW but went the route of claiming her was her father. Of course, he didn't leave anyone alive who could oppose him in court. These papers make me wonder if the original plan was to murder only HR ?

RSBM
Looking it up, it appears these documents only apply when both parents are dead: otherwise the surviving parent is automatically the guardian. How is a Guardian Appointed for a Child When a Parent Dies?

So they certainly were thinking ahead, to what would happen if JW died too, to presumably ensure the Wagner's would still be guardians.

I notice the document requires two witnesses, I suppose she just forged those as well.

I wonder how/when police found these, they're very incriminating, tho circumstantial.

 

[Fletcher73]

Personally, I don't think the answer to that question can ever be found by applying logic and rationality. If the W's were rational, they wouldn't have done it. I think the answer lies in more primitive emotions and fantasies.

Agreed. I know someone well who is in the same sect as FW (different church) associated with at least one of the pastors connected to the W4. I'm aware of the mental-spiritual controls or influences he imposes on his children (now all over age 21). Most concerning is how he regularly nudges his two married daughters to produce children - not even 28 yo, yet have nine children between them. These young parents are uneducated; one son-in-law is enlisted, the other is a traveling preacher.

I'm not saying the W4 are deeply religious the way FW purports to be, but if control of children is said to be an extreme obsession in these sects, well, I believe it. It's primitive, certainly not logical or rational.

 

[Fletcher73]

It should ask to download the page. It very short letter saying because JW was arrested he's no longer SW's custodial guardian.

The document (attached) is part of the Estate of CRsr proceedings, establishing SW's status (father arrested so she's now a Ward of the State, and due to the criminal investigation and that she's a juvenile, no other information is available).

 

[OhioBlues]

Agreed. I know someone well who is in the same sect as FW (different church) associated with at least one of the pastors connected to the W4. I'm aware of the mental-spiritual controls or influences he imposes on his children (now all over age 21). Most concerning is how he regularly nudges his two married daughters to produce children - not even 28 yo, yet have nine children between them. These young parents are uneducated; one son-in-law is enlisted, the other is a traveling preacher.

I'm not saying the W4 are deeply religious the way FW purports to be, but if control of children is said to be an extreme obsession in these sects, well, I believe it. It's primitive, certainly not logical or rational.

What sect is FW in? I have tried to figure that out but haven't been able to yet. She is the only person that I know that would give an interview with a huge Bible and picture of Jesus right next to her. It looks (IMO) like something a charlatan might do.

 

[Fletcher73]

What sect is FW in? I have tried to figure that out but haven't been able to yet. She is the only person that I know that would give an interview with a huge Bible and picture of Jesus right next to her. It looks (IMO) like something a charlatan might do.

Independent Baptist or Independent Fundamentalist Baptist. Charlatan - possibly - I often see the person I know doing things for personal gain when claiming separation from the secular. Claims his pastor says it's okay. Stuff I would think is immoral for a conservative religious person to do. But he can self-justify dang near anything and be so articulate about it.

He's a bit careful around me, because I told him long ago I was raised by a fundamentalist and can barf the bible.

 

[OhioBlues]

Independent Baptist or Independent Fundamentalist Baptist. Charlatan - possibly - I often see the person I know doing things for personal gain when claiming separation from the secular. Claims his pastor says it's okay. Stuff I would think is immoral for a conservative religious person to do. But he can self-justify dang near anything and be so articulate about it.

He's a bit careful around me, because I told him long ago I was raised by a fundamentalist and can barf the bible.

The Religion aspect has puzzled me more than anything in this case. I don't understand it at all.

I thought W4 went to a church in Minford and that pastor moved to Alaska. They followed him there?

I have so many questions.

 

[Fletcher73]

The Religion aspect has puzzled me more than anything in this case. I don't understand it at all.

I thought W4 went to a church in Minford and that pastor moved to Alaska. They followed him there?

I have so many questions.

Yes. The Minford pastor runs an IB church in Seward, AK (for many years since leaving Minford). His sons grew up with GW4 and JW, iirc, and the W4's visited a few times in AK - but when they moved in 2017, they went to the pastor's son's IB church in Kenai (about a 100-mile drive NW of Seward).

JMO: that one pretrial where AC said there was information from a confidential resource indicating retaliatory plans (regarding GW4) to justify denying bail - I looked up "confidential resource."

The definition included a certain category of persons, such as a mandated reporter, which could be a doctor or clergy. Immediately I thought of the younger pastor. JMO ...intuition? MOO

 

[OhioBlues]

Yes. The Minford pastor runs an IB church in Seward, AK (for many years since leaving Minford). His sons grew up with GW4 and JW, iirc, and the W4's visited a few times in AK - but when they moved in 2017, they went to the pastor's son's IB church in Kenai (about a 100-mile drive NW of Seward).

JMO: that one pretrial where AC said there was information from a confidential resource indicating retaliatory plans (regarding GW4) to justify denying bail - I looked up "confidential resource."

The definition included a certain category of persons, such as a mandated reporter, which could be a doctor or clergy. Immediately I thought of the younger pastor. JMO ...intuition? MOO

Clergy would make sense plus clergy couldn't be forced to testify either even if it was any (unknown to us) clergy person.

FW has her own church and I can't figure out if they attended her church, the Minford Church, unknown church or no church. IDK. I have had a hard time figuring out if/where they attended church especially when JW is claiming his religion doesn't allow Halloween etc. It would seem that he either attended a church (at some point) or was not telling the truth/trying to mislead to throw suspicion away from him.

Did the W4 attend that Minford Church or were they just friends because of the kids growing up together?

It appeared to me that GW4 was the one that was closest to the son.

jmo. moo.

 

[Ann99]

RW from BBL has a real estate business in Fla and CRsr worked for RW. Perhaps RW had work for him to do down there.

Thanks.
RW May have had construction work for CR. That makes sense to me.

 

[Ann99]

If RW of BBL was guilty of anything pertinent to these murders, he would have been indicted and charged. So I stand with the Investigators and their choices based on the cold hard evidence, some of which we've already seen in Discovery documents. JMHO

I don’t think this line of discussion indicates RW was guilty of anything. The intention was to demonstrate the likely possibility that CRsr could have had legitimate work available in Florida. That’s all.