GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #33

[May72031]

Yes I saw that, the nursing council are also investigating her fitness to practice too now ( will see if I can find the link)

Apologies Kitty, it's not Rees, it's Kelly who had moved to a job with Salford, was suspended this week and is now referred to the nursing watchdog.

Lucy Letby’s former nursing boss referred to regulator

Alison Kelly accused in court of failing to act when doctors raised ‘serious concerns’ about the serial baby killer

www.telegraph.co.uk

To think Karen Rees was awarded the "Haygarth Medal for Nurse of the Year" in early 2018. She was presented with the award from....

...Alison Kelly!

 

[iamshadow21]

I agree to all -I thought that the ' none of my friends should attend court ' was very telling although the penny hasn't dropped with D and maybe never will.
LL needed dupes around her. ( You have to be somewhat naive and self-centred to imagine that announcing this on Panorama - a million viewers including possibly 100 family victims whose lives have been forever ruined - was the appropriate thing to do in August 2023. )

I have heard psychologists say that dealing with the cognitive dissonance can be painful.
Then again, have also heard them say that maintaining denialism is also very destructive long term.
Regardless of that, I'm not embarrassed to admit that I can't summon up much compassion for any of them right now- because I would have preferred that LL hadn't forced a trial on the families and the 4 year(?) agonising wait to conclusion.

re your last line in bold.
Once LL gets out of segregation, she's going to have to cope with inmates like Dennehey. Apparently, Dennehey is, ' a self-confessed 'fully committed psychopath. ' Can you imagine the scenes, potentially?
LL still being in denial and claiming innocence while being goaded to admit what you are by your fellow inmate? Lucy Letby set to be locked up with notorious criminals in Low Newton

Dennehy and Letby do seem to be completely opposite in background, superficial presentation of personality, and also killing style. Letby very much liked sneaking around, using the tools and skills available to her to kill covertly. Dennehy just seemed to get off stabbing people to death wildly, then recruiting her sycophants to help dispose of the bodies. Intense plotting and planning and suberfuge versus someone who seemed to kill people without any forethought at all, then called her friends for help in the aftermath, literally saying things like 'oops, I've done it again'. I can't imagine they'll get on, but I have heard of stranger friendships on death row (which in a country without the DP, this is the equivalent of for these two offenders).

MOO

 

[cottonweaver]

To think Karen Rees was awarded the "Haygarth Medal for Nurse of the Year" in early 2018. She was presented with the award from....

...Alison Kelly!

Mind blown again


Countess have since deleted their own tweet congratulating Rees.
The cache is here. T'internet never forgets Countess of Chester Hospital NHS Foundation Trust on Twitter


BTW. I 'm still on catch-up and currently Pros Johnson is asking LL why she has 99 confidential patient records which she collected when she was a student nurse!

She graduated Sept 2011 and then took up her first job in Jan 2012. ( Plus we have a new parent - in the news today, on GMB - who believes her daughter was attacked by LL as early as 2013)
So, are you all thinking that LL may also have been carrying out attacks while she was a student?

'Mr Johnson went on: “Some 99 handover sheets from your home as a student.”
.....

Lucy Letby denies photographing sympathy card ‘to get thrill’

A NURSE has denied she got “a thrill” from photographing a sympathy card sent to the parents of a baby girl she allegedly murdered.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

on the previous trial day he asks her whether she'd been transporting her collection across each residence as she moved around pre & post graduation

'Mr Johnson says Letby completed a three-year nursing course, during which time Letby confirms she was living in student accommodation in Chester, in more than one place, changing each academic year.

Letby says she began her employment in January 2012. Before that time, she went back to her parents' place in Hereford, and then moved to Ash House when obtaining her job.

She then went to a flat of one of her colleagues, living there alone from March 15, 2014 to June 1, 2015, then back to Ash House. She moved to her Westbourne Road home in April 2016.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, May 17 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

PPS IIRC, Shipman started experimenting on patients during his training period too

 

[kittythehare]

Mind blown again


Countess have since deleted their own tweet congratulating Rees.
The cache is here. T'internet never forgets Countess of Chester Hospital NHS Foundation Trust on Twitter

The Countess panicking somewhat, eh?
Good.
They should be.
But deleting is foolish of them.
Everything will have been or should have been archived.

 

[iamshadow21]

Mind blown again


Countess have since deleted their own tweet congratulating Rees.
The cache is here. T'internet never forgets Countess of Chester Hospital NHS Foundation Trust on Twitter


BTW. I 'm still on catch-up and currently Pros Johnson is asking LL why she has 99 confidential patient records which she collected when she was a student nurse!

She graduated Sept 2011 and then took up her first job in Jan 2012. ( Plus we have a new parent - in the news today, on GMB - who believes her daughter was attacked by LL as early as 2013)
So, are you all thinking that LL may also have been carrying out attacks while she was a student?

'Mr Johnson went on: “Some 99 handover sheets from your home as a student.”
.....

Lucy Letby denies photographing sympathy card ‘to get thrill’

A NURSE has denied she got “a thrill” from photographing a sympathy card sent to the parents of a baby girl she allegedly murdered.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

on the previous trial day he asks her whether she'd been transporting her collection across each residence as she moved around pre & post graduation

'Mr Johnson says Letby completed a three-year nursing course, during which time Letby confirms she was living in student accommodation in Chester, in more than one place, changing each academic year.

Letby says she began her employment in January 2012. Before that time, she went back to her parents' place in Hereford, and then moved to Ash House when obtaining her job.

She then went to a flat of one of her colleagues, living there alone from March 15, 2014 to June 1, 2015, then back to Ash House. She moved to her Westbourne Road home in April 2016.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Wednesday, May 17 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

PPS IIRC, Shipman started experimenting on patients during his training period too

That first pristine handover sheet in the gold and roses keepsake box still creeps me the heck out whenever I think of it. Makes all the hair stand up on the back of my neck. It's like the sort of trophy fetishisation you see in a movie, in fiction, not real life.

UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #22

I'll do Chester Standard updates, just so we don't duplicate here

www.websleuths.com

MOO

 

[May72031]

Quite a few sleuthers in these threads have pointed out that it is unusual for serial killers to suddenly start killing, with no prior escalation.

Like others, I fear there are previous events to investigate.

JMO.

 

[Cuko]

This is shocking:

Q: Who was the Chair of the Countess Hospital Board during this Letby murder spree catastrophe?
A: Sir Duncan Nichol

Q: Who was ' a career hospital administrator and head of the NHS at the time of the Beverley Allitt scandal?'


According to The Sunday Times it was......

A: Sir Duncan Nichol !

Sunday Times Link:

https://archive.ph/SATKz#selection-1515.12-1515.106

Lessons from the official Allitt Inquiry- Allitt murder spree catastrophe- published 1994

https://minhalexander.files.wordpress.com/2023/08/notes-on-beverly-allitt-inquiry-3.pdf

Jeez! You really couldn’t make it up

 

[PoirotPink]

I was a teenager and young woman in a different place and time - but still. When I look at those photos of a young Lucy and her friends out having fun, it strikes me as a bit odd. It's all girls - where are the guys? Before young people start pairing off, in my experience they go out socialising in mixed groups. Especially church young people, which Lucy was. But this was all girls. Were all these girls together because they were similar in many ways? Perhaps all a bit shy, a bit immature, not particularly popular with boys? Them against the world? So now they are closing ranks to support one of their own, and maybe aren't mature enough to see LL as she truly is? Just an idea.

The term "flying monkey" comes to mind. Narcissists can be charming to people they can use and who are useful to them. There's a reason that people are willing to side with narcissists, even helping to target their victims, while ignoring the narcissist's actions / behaviour towards others. The realisation only comes when the mask slips and the flying monkey finds themselves on the wrong side of the narcissist, at which point they will look back at all the things the narcissist did and recognise them as "red flags".

 

[PoirotPink]

I think that both the families and LL herself are entitled to a verdict one way or the other. And the public has the desire to see justice done. Leaving the question open satisfies nobody.

Unless by 'public interest' you mean 'money'. And I can only speak for myself on that, but I would be fine with my taxes being spent on a trial concerning the unexplained deaths and collapses of vulnerable infants.

MOO

It may just be the pragmatic view that having another hearing is not going to change the outcome, namely that a dangerous person has already been permanently removed from society.

 

[kittythehare]

It may just be the pragmatic view that having another hearing is not going to change the outcome, namely that a dangerous person has already been permanently removed from society.

the outcome would be accountability.
It is the very least the parents deserve.
They need catharsis and they are entitled to it.

 

[PoirotPink]

Snap!

Does anybody know if this is normally allowed? ( As part of the grievance procedures, if the complainant says they are distressed, are they allowed to nominate family members/others to attend for support and is that supporter allowed to advocate on their behalf /speak for them in meetings? It just sounds irregular. )

Yes that might explain why they were there, but it's still unusual to have your parents attending meetings with you. In the public sector, pretty much everyone is a member of a union, so she would most likely have had a union rep there in any case to actually represent her.

 

[iamshadow21]

It may just be the pragmatic view that having another hearing is not going to change the outcome, namely that a dangerous person has already been permanently removed from society.

It changes things massively for the families for whom their child's case results in a guilty verdict. It opens the door for them to make compensation claims against COCH. I'm thinking in particular of the families of children F, G, and N, who were all disabled by Letby's attacks on them and require ongoing care and medical treatment, most likely for the rest of their lives. A compensation payout could mean the difference between those families scraping by and being able to provide for their child in a way that prolongs and enriches their life.

MOO

 

[PoirotPink]

Mummy and daddy have wrapped her in cotton wool and put her on a pedestal IMO they have always been able to fix all her problems, paint her as the victim even when she’s been in the wrong and get everyone to apologise to Lucy. I imagine this has been the routine all her life. Lucy given a detention or a bad mark at school, mum and dad turn up demanding to know why their precious Lucy is being victimised and insisting there’s been a mistake.

Mummy and daddy can’t fix this mess she’s created. Mum’s ‘I did it, arrest me’ is the icing on the cake of a lifetime of Lucy getting away with everything and never facing consequences. It has eventually led to her ‘getting away with murder’. Mum and dad may be the two people she feels she has managed to gaslight successfully to the point that they believe every word she says.

However I think there may have been a factor of reputation to uphold. They seem to have been the idyllic close knit family, with the devoted nurse daughter who still holidays with them. The parents who constantly talk about their daughter’s achievements with friends.

Imagine the shame of going from telling them ‘our Lucy has been picked as the face of a campaign and is in the paper talking about the unit she works on’ or ‘our Lucy has just bought a beautiful new home’ to ‘our Lucy is suspected of being a serial baby killer’. I wonder if they have a certain reputation in the community to uphold and this is another thing that drives them to protect at all costs. Keeping up appearances and keeping anything unsavoury behind closed doors.

I must add I don’t think they are to blame for what Lucy has done, those are her evil actions and hers alone. But never being held accountable gave Lucy the belief that she is superior to everyone else and is above the law and would never have to face consequences IMO
MOO

Interesting. You've actually described a pattern of narcissistic traits. The whole being very concerned about how things appear to others. Narcissism can beget narcissism in repeating cycles through the generations.

Also, IIRC, there was a study about parental infantilisation, where people who'd been subjected to infantilising behaviour by their parents ended up scoring more highly in terms of narcissistic traits.

 

[PoirotPink]

It does beg the question had she had brothers and sisters would she have committed these despicable acts? In this particular instance being a spoilt only child who appears to have never grown up has possibly led to her selfishness and wanting to be centre of attention. JMO

That seems a very tenuous reason, for me. But I'm not familiar with the data on such people. Being an only child is nothing out of the ordinary, in fact, it is increasingly the norm.

JMO.

Also, plenty of serial offenders have siblings.

MOO

IMO, it's the parent / child relationship that is "formative" and the relationship with siblings is often a result of the family dynamic as dictated by the parents who cast children into roles, the golden child (favourite), the scapegoat, the invisible child etc. Obviously, "healthy" parents would not do this, but you have to be aware of these issues in order to avoid them.

 

[Sundial]

This is shocking:

Q: Who was the Chair of the Countess Hospital Board during this Letby murder spree catastrophe?
A: Sir Duncan Nichol

Q: Who was ' a career hospital administrator and head of the NHS at the time of the Beverley Allitt scandal?'


According to The Sunday Times it was......

A: Sir Duncan Nichol !

Sunday Times Link:

https://archive.ph/SATKz#selection-1515.12-1515.106

Lessons from the official Allitt Inquiry- Allitt murder spree catastrophe- published 1994

https://minhalexander.files.wordpress.com/2023/08/notes-on-beverly-allitt-inquiry-3.pdf

I’ve always thought there was something so utterly bizarre about this case, which I could never seem to quite pin down why. There is something that really, really stinks about the whole thing.

Not only is there a despicable creature to walk the earth doing such cruel disturbing acts to another life;
but IMO there is only one reason a hospital would keep turning a blind eye so furiously, trying to block access, block the parents, block the police access, silencing these doctors- like blackmail to keep quiet (painting LL as a victim, her parents getting quite strangely involved- reading HER written statement out to the mediation meeting on her behalf):

The hospital has something to hide.
The ugly truth is emerging with time. Pandora’s box has nothing on this scandal.

JMO

 

[PoirotPink]

My daughter is an only child. She was showered with love and affection and she has grown up to be a fabulous young woman who we are incredibly proud of.
Could she have turned out to be a serial killer of tiny premature infants based on that fact alone ? Highly unlikely.
She knew and knows the difference between right and wrong and good and evil.
Something Letby clearly doesn’t or didn’t.
Big difference. JMO.

IMO, LL knows the difference between right and wrong (as witnessed in the handwritten notes), but what she lacks is empathy. Empathy for anyone who isn't her, empathy for her victims. To me, it's the lack of empathy that's manifesting itself as awkwardness that I think some people are mistaking for shyness or geekiness. JMO.

 

[Sundial]

I’m not subscribed to this service but interesting to see the crusades are out in force already.. clearly they were not privvy to following the trial in depth and all the disturbing information given in evidence. Even her own defence could give no plausible, solid reason and everything she said had more holes in it than a sieve.

Lucy Letby appeal fund launched

Supporters claim the nurse’s conviction ‘may represent the greatest miscarriage of justice the UK has ever witnessed’

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[sceawian]

I’m not subscribed to this service but interesting to see the crusades are out in force already.. clearly they were not privvy to following the trial in depth and all the disturbing information given in evidence. Even her own defence could give no plausible, solid reason and everything she said had more holes in it than a sieve.

Lucy Letby appeal fund launched

Supporters claim the nurse’s conviction ‘may represent the greatest miscarriage of justice the UK has ever witnessed’

www.telegraph.co.uk

Eurgh, it's run by that awful woman that LARPs as a scientist* despite only spouting bollocks (edit: someone on reddit has found a legal document showing she has recently been found mentally incompetent). She's the one that repeatedly harassed and threatened the mod of the Lucy Letby subreddit. I don't know if I'm allowed to post it, but she now has a whole website called "Science on Trial" about it which is so cringy that it is both mind-numbing and excessively infuriating.

*she supposedly has a PhD from Cambridge but I feel something is funky... she only has 2 contributing author papers overall, which is strange for such a prestigious university that normally would be constantly pushing to publish research.

 

[May72031]

Eurgh, it's run by that awful woman that LARPs as a scientist despite only spouting bollocks. She's the one that repeatedly harassed and threatened the mod of the Lucy Letby subreddit. I don't know if I'm allowed to post it, but she now has a whole website called "Science on Trial" about it which is so cringy that it is both mind-numbing and excessively infuriating.

No doubt she will want gullible peeps to donate to her, as well.

 

[PoirotPink]

the outcome would be accountability.
It is the very least the parents deserve.
They need catharsis and they are entitled to it.

It changes things massively for the families for whom their child's case results in a guilty verdict. It opens the door for them to make compensation claims against COCH. I'm thinking in particular of the families of children F, G, and N, who were all disabled by Letby's attacks on them and require ongoing care and medical treatment, most likely for the rest of their lives. A compensation payout could mean the difference between those families scraping by and being able to provide for their child in a way that prolongs and enriches their life.

MOO

Totally agree. The parents and families of the victims absolutely deserve justice. Unfortunately, we don't have a justice sytem that's actually about delivering "justice" in the sense that we understand the word. As I'm sure you already know, the aim of the criminal law system is simply to punish the offender and protect society, rather than to compensate or address the victim's suffering. The high burden of proof required in criminal cases is already heavily stacked in the favour of the (alleged) criminals, and most guilty people probably walk free because of the burden of proof required and / or reasonable doubt. I often wish we had a "truthfinding" system as is found in parts of Europe.