GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #2

[Destroyer]

interesting that, SH went into such detail about the 'vacuuming' and housework he was doing on Friday morning...

but I think it would be unusual to have one around 5ft long laying about the house

You would be surprised these days what people keep in their houses, & as for 5ft vacuum sacks are sold on QVC all the time over here, space saving storage bags, they show you on the add putting an entire double duvet in one & then it shrinks into a tiny airtight pack you could just lay under a bed. Google the word 'Vacuum Sack' & check out the images it throws up - you will be shocked.

 

[LadyL]

I vaguely remember a similar tragic mistake when LE was searching for a little boy. He had apparently crawled into the trunk of a car on the family's property. LE had already 'cleared' that area and began a much wider search when he was eventually found days later. :rose:

I get your point but quite frankly in that scenario, the family made the first most tragic mistake by not watching their child and secondly leaving a vehicle on their property accessible to the child and then thirdly not checking the trunk themselves.

I certainly wouldn't find fault with a police dep't who was there to help me because I screwed up, unless they showed flagrant disregard for their duties which I'm not seeing in this case. Someone also made a point earlier that they are highly-paid professionals & I'm wondering where they are highly-paid ... certainly not here in Canada.

I just hope Tia wasn't alive when they messed up in their search. That might be a little harder to forgive for me.

 

[Luna15]

I have two questions for our English friends:

1. when you say 'estate', does that just mean house?

2. the term 'firewall' - I know that seems self-explanatory but is it inside or outside? is it like a brick wall outside where a fence would separate property lines? or is it special fireproofing inside an interior wall?

TIA

1. an 'estate' is a built up area with a number of houses all the same, and usually blocks of flats dotted about in the same area... not sure if this will work, but you can view the area where Tia was found on googlemaps streetview

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=20%20the%20lindens%20new%20addington&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1024&bih=623&wrapid=tlif134472042879031&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=il

2. 'firewall' is an internal wall - if a fire breaks out in one house, the fire cannot break through into the adjoining house/s.... the way 'estate' houses are built in rows - you need 'firewalls' so the whole row doesn't go up if there's a fire in one...

hope this makes sense

 

[Katinkia]

I have two questions for our English friends:

1. when you say 'estate', does that just mean house?

2. the term 'firewall' - I know that seems self-explanatory but is it inside or outside? is it like a brick wall outside where a fence would separate property lines? or is it special fireproofing inside an interior wall?

TIA

'Estate' refers to 'housing estate'. Large areas of council owned properties that mostly poor people live in. They not always bad but mostly they are not desirable areas.

'firewall' I think this is a reinforced wall between the roof spaces of the terraced houses to prevent the spread of fire.

 

[Destroyer]

I have two questions for our English friends:

1. when you say 'estate', does that just mean house?

2. the term 'firewall' - I know that seems self-explanatory but is it inside or outside? is it like a brick wall outside where a fence would separate property lines? or is it special fireproofing inside an interior wall?

TIA

1 - Estate i would describe as the entire community in a sqare mile.

2 - Firewall meaning a brickwall seperating two properties.

Some people also rumouring she may of been laid underneath the loft insulation wool basically laying on the celing from below - just rumours.

 

[Destroyer]

Someone also made a point earlier that they are highly-paid professionals & I'm wondering where they are highly-paid ... certainly not here in Canada.

I just hope Tia wasn't alive when they messed up in their search. That might be a little harder to forgive for me.

I made the point earlier they were highly paid & believe me in the UK even the lowest ranked Police officers are on excellent wages plus the highest paid pension in the UK.

 

[Destroyer]

Here is an interesting video on the type of Vacuum sacks i'm on about ...

[video=youtube;JTfqFAyMx6U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfqFAyMx6U[/video]

 

[oldhat]

Estates are what the US commonly refer to as 'the projects'.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Look at the quote in BritsKate's post above. It clearly say's they searched the place the body was eventually found.

They have apologised to the mother publicly and quickly which is unusual.

If the body had been moved around the police would not have to apologise for anything.

I think it was very elaborately wrappedt enough to fool the officer that searched there first.

whether or not police should have found the body earlier or not put aside..

It still sounds the person who hid Tia did a pretty thorough job...

could he/she have done this type of thing before?

Just a thought....

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

as horrible as it sounds, her body may not have been in one form....or piece.

Very good point...

One I hadn't even thought of..

and it puts a whole new slant on possible scenarios!

 

[fabgod]

Just to say, that I don't think many council homes still have water tanks these days, because I think a lot were replaced with combination boilers. That's if I'm correct in thinking that it was a council owned home.

You are right, but the ones i have worked in, in the north west, mostly still had the tanks in place, but empty.
The cost of re decorating grants, the extra work involved in reomving the tanks, often led to them just being capped off and left in the loft.

I'm not saying that is in every case, just that I have seen several in the past few years like this.

As for the firewalls, there was a big push to block these a while back, one because of security, easy access to other houses, and two, because of the fire risk, not many councils would want to be seen to be at fault if a fire broke out and spread because of a lack of firewall.

 

[Inge Jones]

Acknowleged! But I don't think that this detracts from a murder charge????

Rape would be secondary charges? I'm not at all sure of UK law. (semen, saliva)

Well the main point would be that finding these items of evidence might well identify *who* committed the murder. If you have a list of potential sex offenders as suspects, one would assume that a victim would be unlikely to have been raped by one person, but then killed by someone unrelated. Similarly with wounding, the shape of the wound would indicate the weapon used, then you could identify who had access to that weapon.

 

[Destroyer]

whether or not police should have found the body earlier or not put aside..

It still sounds the person who hid Tia did a pretty thorough job...

could he/she have done this type of thing before?

Just a thought....

Either they did do a pretty thorough job of hiding Tia or the Police were extremely poor at doing their work ?? Or a combination of both.

 

[SallyLu]

The main water tank is in the loft.... a bit like this

that then feeds the tank in the airing cupboard

Fantastic visual. Thank you Luna15 and also to Mobybluff for their explanation too.

On a side note I used to think council house estates were dead posh and always wanted to live on one! LOL

 

[graceholl]

Was not surprised to learn of CS's arrest today, sadly. I hope the post mortem can reveal something conclusive so that this case can be wrapped up and justice brought quickly for the poor girl.

 

[fabgod]

You would be surprised these days what people keep in their houses, & as for 5ft vacuum sacks are sold on QVC all the time over here, space saving storage bags, they show you on the add putting an entire double duvet in one & then it shrinks into a tiny airtight pack you could just lay under a bed. Google the word 'Vacuum Sack' & check out the images it throws up - you will be shocked.

I see what you are doing Destroyer!
trying to get everyone in the same boat re googling the vacuum sacks lol!

(sorry, couldn't resist, I'm just embarrased cos I was straight on there when you mentioned it earlier lol)
:blushing:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I just don't get the motive. Someone give me some idea what the motive could be. If it was SH alone then it could be sexual, but the Grandmother arrested on suspicion of murder too? Really can't then be a sexual thing can it? Seriously? Give me a motive.

Jus t a thought...

I,have heard of women who "sacrifice" their daughters to boyfriends for sexual pleasure so that the boy friend will stay with them

sick, yes

May not be the cae here..

but it happens!

Next questions for me...

do we know who did make the original Missing Persons call?

could neighbor have been I,n on the abuse between SH and poor Tia?

could there have already been a secret tunnel, so to speak, between the houses for just this purpose?

could Tia's body have been dismembered and hid in separate places, yet all in same location?

Just miscellaneous thoughts I am considering, and want to know if any of you Sleuthers have some ideas.

sorry for messy iPad typing.

 

[Pisces Cloud]

You are right, but the ones i have worked in, in the north west, mostly still had the tanks in place, but empty.
The cost of re decorating grants, the extra work involved in reomving the tanks, often led to them just being capped off and left in the loft.

I'm not saying that is in every case, just that I have seen several in the past few years like this.

As for the firewalls, there was a big push to block these a while back, one because of security, easy access to other houses, and two, because of the fire risk, not many councils would want to be seen to be at fault if a fire broke out and spread because of a lack of firewall.

Ah, OK, thanks. I just remember my sister's house being upgraded some years ago and they removed the water tank in her home. I never thought that it probably doesn't happen in all areas of the country. Leaving an empty tank probably won't do any harm.

 

[squish]

I'm so very sad that we lost yet another youngster...It happens too often.

The worst is that it seems to be/allegedly at the hands of "those who loved her". Let's place our collective ire in the right place!!!!!!!!

We tend to be quick to "blame" officials. But blame for what???

Not to be disrespectful, but if the police did not find the body for 1-8 days, does it truly matter?

It is very easy to point fingers at what may have been missed by authorities. None of it brings back a young life. Nor does it help any of us feel better.

I can only hope now for worldly justice.

I do not dispute that analysis needs to happen, to perhaps improve process.

But I also feel that law enforcement personnel are just besides themselves with what transpired....They are mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews. Doing their best to figure out a monsterous act.

I pray for these persons also, to continue their dedication and good works. And I pray they may find peace of mind for the "horrific" act that they/we have encountered.

God Bless!

I agree, the police weren't being lazy, they have been working hard - as they said, it was just a human error, and they had the decency to apologise. They have been doing all they can. It's not helpful to blame the police, it won't be good for their morale or for public relations. They thought they were dealing with a distressed family of a missing child - they had to act with sensitivity. Police are also used to dealing with people of a very low social status when they have committed crimes, not when their child is missing. It would therefore have been drilled into the police to not be prejudiced against them and so their gut feelings would have been somewhat stifled.

It was interesting that they pointedly apologised to Tia's mum, which hints that she truly is innocent.

 

[fabgod]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tia-sharp-detectives-arrest-grandmother-1250039

Sorry if this has already been posted,
part way down it states that "A dark holdall was later seen being removed from the house"