Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #79

[ScarlettScarpetta]

You are absolutely right. But what I am trying to say is that the smoke smell had to OVERPOWER the smell of gas.

And I am just not seeing that smoke transfer would permeate the car enough to coverup that gas smell.

But that's to say that there was in fact a gas smell to coverup...that's my assumption. I know what my garage smells like when there is gas stored in it, especially in the heat. These gas cans were in that car, in various states of full to empty, for 5 days in high heat part of the time.

I just can't get over the fact the car would have to smell...and what better way to cover up that smell than with cigarette smoke.

But of course, that doesn't mean you have to agree with me either. That's why this forum is so great - reading theories, since much of what we post is just that barring real evidence.

But the gas smell would be in the trunk. The smoke would be in the car. They would not necessarily mix.

 

[OldCarGal]

it goes beyond speculation to me. it's circumstantial evidence. things can be inferred from it that make it more than pure speculation, IMO, at least. same with her grandparent's stolen gun. she gets that scathing message from TA on 5/26. on 5/28 the gun is 'stolen'. on 6/2, she leaves on her murder trip. it's more than speculation that gun came from the burglary to me. and nobody will say TA even OWNED a gun. to conclude he did would be taking her word for it with no corroboration. THAT'S speculation.

I really feel that Juan has a document (texts or emails) from Travis telling Jodi off, and for the reason for the text you just referred to calling her a sociopath. There are also 2 more of Jodi's journals, one dated Jan - April 2008, the other to July 8, 2008 (one month after the murder). Maybe there is something written in those journals. I just read part of Travis' Book /Journal on his blog. I also read elsewhere that Jodi stole a part of his journal, so possibly, Travis talks about Jodi & her stalking & sex life in his journal.

 

[Clue Finder 55]

WHY DIDN”T THE GUN FIRE A SECOUND TIME

A 25 caliber semi automatic gun will when fired reload a shell into the chamber auto maticly that is why they are called semi automatic hand guns.
When a round is fired some of the gases released push the slider back and eject the spent shell casing. As the slider returns it picks up a new shell and places it in the chamber so the gun is ready to fire again. This action is very rapid and just takes a split second to reload a new cartridge,

Firing pin strikes the primer of the cartridge, causing it to fire. The flame from the primer ignites gunpowder, which burns rapidly. Gasses created by burning powder push bullet down barrel, at the same time pushing back on the slide of the pistol. Since the slide is heavier than the bullet, it moves much slower. As the slide is pushed back on its springs, it pulls the fired cartridge case from the chamber, and it is flipped out of the pistol (ejection). At the end of the stroke, springs that were compressed during recoil now push the slide forward, stripping fresh cartridge from magazine, and sliding it into the chamber. You are now ready for the next shot

Why didn’t the gun fire a second time?
Jodi Arias said she was knocked over backwards by the impact of Travis hitting her just after the gun fired and hitting him in the head with the bullet.

If she still had the gun in her hand at this time of firing and Travis’s body hit her knocking her to the ground it would be a natural muscle clench instinct to pull the trigger as she was falling backwards. A person’s natural instinct is for your muscles to tighten when falling backwards. Especially if you are hit by someone weighing 190 lbs.
So why didn’t the gun fire a second time? It takes very little pressure on the trigger of a gun to have it fire.
After the first shot the gun loads a new shell into the chamber in a split second and all that is needed to fire again is a very small amount of trigger pressure.
Either the gun jammed or she was not in the position she said she was if the attack had occurred how she stated.
She also stated she was holding the gun with both hands and her arms were out stretched and she fired as Travis lunged at her.
I am posting a picture of just how small these 25 cal semi auto handguns are so you can see how it would be pretty well impossible for her to hold one of these guns with both hands.
The gun picture is actual size and the YouTube link shows how the gun loads itself after the first shot is fired.

The bullet trajectory hitting Travis just above the right eyebrow and traveling across the skull nicking the frontal lobe of the brain and exiting into his left cheek does not make sense if she shot him as he was lunging at her.
Even if his head was turned to the left as he was lunging the bullet could not have impacted his skull and traveled in the path the medical examiner stated it did.

Why would you retrieve a gun that as far as you knew was not loaded then run back into a bathroom that had no way for you to escape?
If it was Travis that told you the gun was not loaded he would not have been afraid of being shot by it.
If the gun was not loaded Jodi would have had to chamber a shell into it in order for the gun to fire and this is not something someone unfamiliar with semi auto pistols would be able to do in a hurry.
Juan should ask her where the safety lever is on a 25 cal gun.
How you would load the gun?
How you would know if there is not a round in the chamber already how you would put a round in it?
How she would know if the guns clip or (magazine) had shells loaded in it all in a split second or two?
If she can not provide these answers than the gun belonging to Travis would be another fabrication.
Remember she told detective Florez in his interview that she knew absolutely nothing about guns.
If she stole her grandfather’s gun she would have had time to learn where the safety was and how to lock or unlock it.
She would have been able to ask someone how you check to see if a semi auto gun is loaded or look it up on the internet somewhere without using her own computer.
She would have been able to look and see if the clip had shells in it.
She may have fired it before hand to see how much noise it would make.
I think the gun is going to be a key issue in her trial as to her premeditated quilt.

 

[kscornfed]

What did the msg on 5/26 say? :waitasec:

that's when he called her a sociopath and said she was the worst thing that ever happened to him, she'd hurt him more than anyone ever had, etc.

 

[zoozoo]

I understand how the 3rd gas can proves premeditation and is very, very bad for Jodi.



What I do not understand is why she filled 3 gas cans in UTAH, after she had already committed the murder and left Arizona. Was it really just to save a few pennies?! How utterly stupid and self-defeating!

She thought she had hidden her filling of the cans in Pasadena well enough by paying cash. She had to have a cover story for borrowing gas cans. That story was that she planned to buy gas at a cheaper price in Utah to use on her drive back to CA so she wouldn't have to pay CA prices to fill up on the way home. For the story to hold, she would need to have receipts showing she actually purchased gas for cans in Utah (she hid the receipt for the 3rd can- reasons for that are for a whole different post!).
Once she knew LE had found proof she filled cans in Pasadena, she came up with the new reason for gas cans (didn't want to be in desert alone at night and run out of gas on trip from Pasadena to Utah) but that makes no sense since I think the admitted evidence (receipts and phone records) show she filled cans up with gas AFTER her last call to Travis when she supposedly told him she was going to visit him (since she had driven many times to Mesa from Pasadena she would have known there are plenty of gas stations and she would NOT need to fill cans at higher CA gas prices if she was trying to save money or to avoid running out of gas in desert).

 

[raisincharlie]

I understand how the 3rd gas can proves premeditation and is very, very bad for Jodi.

What I do not understand is why she filled 3 gas cans in UTAH, after she had already committed the murder and left Arizona. Was it really just to save a few pennies?! How utterly stupid and self-defeating!

Um, she was in a fog ?

 

[JayB12]

do we know anything about matt McCarthy? has anyone posted anything about him at all? is he even on the witness list??

I would guess he is the mountain man in the audience.

 

[Chester_from_THM]

:waitasec:

You pronounce this word 2 different ways depending on whether you are usingit as a noun or a verb.


[v. uh-trib-yoot; n. a-truh-byoot]

I know. Jodi doesn't.

Did you hear her say what quality she would "a-truh-byoot" to Travis?

 

[sacrablue]

Thanks for asking. If they have gotten proper help, the diagnosis has been reactive attachment disorder. However, all of these children are complex. In fact, we refer to it generally as "Complex Trauma." Most of these kids have many other diagnoses including oppositional defiant disorder, anxiety, PTSD, fetal alcohol, bipolar disorder, significant learning delays of all types*, adhd, etc. These kids have often been hit genetically and environmentally with lots of deficits.

Interesting on the learning deficits, my child has a nonverbal learning disability and also tends to take things VERY literally. When I have watched JA argue about specific words in a very literal sense, I have recognized that. While there is no doubt she is vying for control and being difficult, I also sense that she may have difficulty processing the questions as most people would. Her word "hyper-literal" would be very accurate for my child, as well.

Although I work with biological families too, our families are mostly adoptive families where there is clear evidence of abuse, neglect, or chronic instability in the first three years of life which alters brain function. Add drug exposure or fetal alcohol and that compounds things. Then, with altered brain function, you see some common traits such as failure to emotionally regulate, no impulse control, etc. These traits then often lead to the ADHD diagnosis and others. So, again, the commonality to my families is the early trauma. Some of our kids have a long list of diagnoses because of these brain changes and alcohol exposure.

Attachment disorder... that is JA in a nutshell.

 

[rose222]

How on earth did Travis threaten JA's life after she shot him, fell and then broke away?

 

[Clue Finder 55]

If you google pics of 25 calibur hand guns you will see pictures of these guns in someones hands and will be able to relate how small they are.
I haven't quite figured out how to post a picture of one on here yet so try the google thing.

 

[SusieD]

WHY DIDN”T THE GUN FIRE A SECOUND TIME

A 25 caliber semi automatic gun will when fired reload a shell into the chamber auto maticly that is why they are called semi automatic hand guns.
When a round is fired some of the gases released push the slider back and eject the spent shell casing. As the slider returns it picks up a new shell and places it in the chamber so the gun is ready to fire again. This action is very rapid and just takes a split second to reload a new cartridge,

Firing pin strikes the primer of the cartridge, causing it to fire. The flame from the primer ignites gunpowder, which burns rapidly. Gasses created by burning powder push bullet down barrel, at the same time pushing back on the slide of the pistol. Since the slide is heavier than the bullet, it moves much slower. As the slide is pushed back on its springs, it pulls the fired cartridge case from the chamber, and it is flipped out of the pistol (ejection). At the end of the stroke, springs that were compressed during recoil now push the slide forward, stripping fresh cartridge from magazine, and sliding it into the chamber. You are now ready for the next shot

Why didn’t the gun fire a second time?
Jodi Arias said she was knocked over backwards by the impact of Travis hitting her just after the gun fired and hitting him in the head with the bullet.

If she still had the gun in her hand at this time of firing and Travis’s body hit her knocking her to the ground it would be a natural muscle clench instinct to pull the trigger as she was falling backwards. A person’s natural instinct is for your muscles to tighten when falling backwards. Especially if you are hit by someone weighing 190 lbs.
So why didn’t the gun fire a second time? It takes very little pressure on the trigger of a gun to have it fire.
After the first shot the gun loads a new shell into the chamber in a split second and all that is needed to fire again is a very small amount of trigger pressure.
Either the gun jammed or she was not in the position she said she was if the attack had occurred how she stated.
She also stated she was holding the gun with both hands and her arms were out stretched and she fired as Travis lunged at her.
I am posting a picture of just how small these 25 cal semi auto handguns are so you can see how it would be pretty well impossible for her to hold one of these guns with both hands.
The gun picture is actual size and the YouTube link shows how the gun loads itself after the first shot is fired.

The bullet trajectory hitting Travis just above the right eyebrow and traveling across the skull nicking the frontal lobe of the brain and exiting into his left cheek does not make sense if she shot him as he was lunging at her.
Even if his head was turned to the left as he was lunging the bullet could not have impacted his skull and traveled in the path the medical examiner stated it did.

Why would you retrieve a gun that as far as you knew was not loaded then run back into a bathroom that had no way for you to escape?
If it was Travis that told you the gun was not loaded he would not have been afraid of being shot by it.
If the gun was not loaded Jodi would have had to chamber a shell into it in order for the gun to fire and this is not something someone unfamiliar with semi auto pistols would be able to do in a hurry.
Juan should ask her where the safety lever is on a 25 cal gun.
How you would load the gun?
How you would know if there is not a round in the chamber already how you would put a round in it?
How she would know if the guns clip or (magazine) had shells loaded in it all in a split second or two?
If she can not provide these answers than the gun belonging to Travis would be another fabrication.
Remember she told detective Florez in his interview that she knew absolutely nothing about guns.
If she stole her grandfather’s gun she would have had time to learn where the safety was and how to lock or unlock it.
She would have been able to ask someone how you check to see if a semi auto gun is loaded or look it up on the internet somewhere without using her own computer.
She would have been able to look and see if the clip had shells in it.
She may have fired it before hand to see how much noise it would make.
I think the gun is going to be a key issue in her trial as to her premeditated quilt.

On a simpler note, did Jodi check how many bullets were actually in the gun when she stole it? It's occurred to me there might have only been one inthe gun and that caught her by surprise.

 

[Chester_from_THM]

I'm convinced Jodi drinks water the way she does because of an arm injury during the murder. I've never seen someone drink like that.

I was wondering if she was doing that to show off her 'broken' finger every possible opportunity.

 

[Nezumi]

Thanks for asking. If they have gotten proper help, the diagnosis has been reactive attachment disorder. However, all of these children are complex. In fact, we refer to it generally as "Complex Trauma." Most of these kids have many other diagnoses including oppositional defiant disorder, anxiety, PTSD, fetal alcohol, bipolar disorder, significant learning delays of all types*, adhd, etc. These kids have often been hit genetically and environmentally with lots of deficits.

Interesting on the learning deficits, my child has a nonverbal learning disability and also tends to take things VERY literally. When I have watched JA argue about specific words in a very literal sense, I have recognized that. While there is no doubt she is vying for control and being difficult, I also sense that she may have difficulty processing the questions as most people would. Her word "hyper-literal" would be very accurate for my child, as well.

Although I work with biological families too, our families are mostly adoptive families where there is clear evidence of abuse, neglect, or chronic instability in the first three years of life which alters brain function. Add drug exposure or fetal alcohol and that compounds things. Then, with altered brain function, you see some common traits such as failure to emotionally regulate, no impulse control, etc. These traits then often lead to the ADHD diagnosis and others. So, again, the commonality to my families is the early trauma. Some of our kids have a long list of diagnoses because of these brain changes and alcohol exposure.

Interesting. I recall she started to say something about having ADD the other day before being cut off my JM. I wonder if any previous psychiatric history is part of the assessment that any experts will have been privvy to?

 

[manzana]

Thanks for asking. If they have gotten proper help, the diagnosis has been reactive attachment disorder. However, all of these children are complex. In fact, we refer to it generally as "Complex Trauma." Most of these kids have many other diagnoses including oppositional defiant disorder, anxiety, PTSD, fetal alcohol, bipolar disorder, significant learning delays of all types*, adhd, etc. These kids have often been hit genetically and environmentally with lots of deficits.

Interesting on the learning deficits, my child has a nonverbal learning disability and also tends to take things VERY literally. When I have watched JA argue about specific words in a very literal sense, I have recognized that. While there is no doubt she is vying for control and being difficult, I also sense that she may have difficulty processing the questions as most people would. Her word "hyper-literal" would be very accurate for my child, as well.

Although I work with biological families too, our families are mostly adoptive families where there is clear evidence of abuse, neglect, or chronic instability in the first three years of life which alters brain function. Add drug exposure or fetal alcohol and that compounds things. Then, with altered brain function, you see some common traits such as failure to emotionally regulate, no impulse control, etc. These traits then often lead to the ADHD diagnosis and others. So, again, the commonality to my families is the early trauma. Some of our kids have a long list of diagnoses because of these brain changes and alcohol exposure.

Interesting and expecting a lot of hate mail, not from you, what is your take on Juan? He seemed all to willing to get on that Merry-go-round with JA, after all he was asking the questions and seemed to spend 15 minutes per question with needless arguing, not like the Judge who got through questions efficiently. I wish he was harder, to me he came off as petty on so many minute points and did not drive home the big ticket items.

 

[Chester_from_THM]

If you google pics of 25 calibur hand guns you will see pictures of these guns in someones hands and will be able to relate how small they are.
I haven't quite figured out how to post a picture of one on here yet so try the google thing.

Someone posted one a few days back, with a Bic-type lighter next to it to illustrate just how small it is.

 

[JayB12]

How on earth did Travis threaten JA's life after she shot him, fell and then broke away?

When JA isn't telling an outright lie, she is telling half truths, IMO.

The outright lie is that Travis body slammed her to the tile, she hit her head, etc. but had the ability to break free from him and run down the hall.

The half truth is that Travis probably did say he was gonna kill the B after she shot him in the head. I dunno, when I get shot in the head, it usually puts me in a really good, fun loving, carefree and playful mood.

 

[tinkabella]

brought over from closed thread.

Speaking of Matt, I just watched this short clip from the JA 48 hours interview. JA talks about there being secret ways that messages get passed in prison, although she states she not really familiar with them all because she hadn't been in prison long enough to learn the ropes at that point. If the coded magazine message is brought up again, I think we may see this clip because you know she will deny having anything to do with it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cLpvB2cBBfY

This would be perfect for them to see. He should ask her about it and then play this clip.

 

[StephanieHartPI]

WHY DIDN”T THE GUN FIRE A SECOUND TIME

apologies for snipping!

I think she dropped the gun when she shot him because it startled her. My gut tells me in a tiled bathroom the 25 caliber would sound much louder with a huge echo compared to shooting this gun outdoors where the sound can spread. Just drop a blow dryer on tile, BAM. Think gunshot. And I think he screamed. I think he doubled over holding the side of his head screaming.

All of this caused her to drop it. If she shot last, then the similar thing about stabbing him first and he screamed out, but she may have continued to grip the knife. I'm not convinced she didn't hold the gun to him at that point.

To scare him, a woman there with gun and knife had to be terrifying, what could he do. He may have tried to go toward her to overpower her, and she stabbed him.

I am not convinced as you know, that she did not fire first.

 

[manzana]

On a simpler note, did Jodi check how many bullets were actually in the gun when she stole it? It's occurred to me there might have only been one inthe gun and that caught her by surprise.

You mean as one in the chamber and an empty clip? I suppose possible but with all the planning and gas cans and such, I do think she would have checked...brings a whole new meaning to being blond.