Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

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Hello friends, well we are coming up to the abduction date. This case never leaves my mind. Remember my main suspect?

Yes four years a killer has remained free it is very unjust indeed and it makes you angry. I wonder if the perp will decide to hunt for their next victim around this time it is unusual four years have past and to our knowledge they haven't struck. Happy Independence Day Cindersoot it is nice to see you again.
 
Hello friends, well we are coming up to the abduction date. This case never leaves my mind. Remember my main suspect?

I'm not sure I do remember unless you're talking about the bicyclist (I do not want to name him because, as I understand it, he suffered quite a bit of gossip and online attacks that really affected him emotionally).
 
Yes four years a killer has remained free it is very unjust indeed and it makes you angry. I wonder if the perp will decide to hunt for their next victim around this time it is unusual four years have past and to our knowledge they haven't struck. Happy Independence Day Cindersoot it is nice to see you again.

WS verified law enforcement poster RichKelly posted earlier in this thread that, statistically, most perpetrators who abduct, sexually assault and murder children are not serial killers. RichKelly speculated that the perp in this case probably feels really bad about what he did rather than satisfied or proud.

I'm reminded of what is going on in the Jacob Wetterling case. An official person of interest has been named, Danny Heinrich. At the time Jacob Wetterling was abducted, there had been a series of attacks on boys ages 11 to 15 in a nearby town. Unfortunately, the statute of limitations for those crimes has expired but law enforcement had retained the forensic evidence gathered in one of the cases. That case was definitively linked to Danny Heinrich via DNA. Because the two crimes have been thought to be linked for so long, LE got a search warrant for Heinrich's residence, where they found over 100 photos of child *advertiser censored* kept in binders. Heinrich has been charged with possession of child *advertiser censored* and will probably go to trial in the fall. The victim who was linked to him via DNA has filed a civil suit, mostly to try to get information on behalf of the Wetterlings, since there is no possibility of criminal charges in his own case.

It appears that Heinrich stopped sexually assaulting boys after Jacob Wetterling was abducted. Or at least, no one can find any evidence that Heinrich continued to sexually assault boys after that time although he clearly continued criminal activity relating to children via child *advertiser censored*. Assuming that Heinrich was indeed the perp in Jacob Wetterling's abduction, it suggests that Heinrich stopped directly assaulting victims although he did continue to participate in the victimisation of children at a remove.

If the perp who killed Lyric and Elizabeth did so because he panicked or felt he had no choice, it could be that he has stopped directly assaulting children. He might well have child *advertiser censored* but many people who have child *advertiser censored* justify it to themselves by thinking that the photographer is the one who really assaulted the child so there's no further harm to that child if they look at those images (which is completely inaccurate).

So now I wonder if the perp might be caught someday through possessing and/or distributing child *advertiser censored* but escape suspicion in the girls' case.
 
The goal is to keep their memory alive. Volunteers are preparing for this year's Memorial Ride and Drive for Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins.

The cousins from Evansdale went missing on July 13th of 2012. Their bodies were found several months later at Seven Bridges Park in Bremer County. No arrests have ever been made in the case.

The ride is this Saturday. It starts at Lofty's Lounge in Evansdale and ends with a concert at the National Cattle Congress.

It's the fourth year for the event and almost four years since a murderer abducted the girls.
http://www.kwwl.com/story/32396837/...pare-for-ride-in-honor-of-lyric-and-elizabeth
 
Well, here we are 4 years later posting in the cold case section about Lyric and Lizzy. I don't know what else to say. RIP sweet girls.
 
SBM

I too believe the girls made it down to Meyer's Lake that day and were abducted from the spot their bikes were found. It's just a great spot for that because it was so hidden in plain sight, exactly the type of place predators look for.

Yes, I think that if the perpetrator had had the time, he would have gone back to Meyer's Lake and probably thrown the bikes into the lake. Perfect hiding spot! I bet the perpetrator did help with the search because he probably went back to Meyer's Lake to see if he could make the bikes disappear. If someone had the presence of mind to note down the names of everyone who showed up at Meyer's Lake after the bikes were found, his name would be there. At that point, though, they were probably still in "lost kid" mode (no blame to them, lost children are hundreds of times more likely than stranger abducted children).

The only place I differ with you is that I don't think that the perp selected either Lyric or Elizabeth. He selected a place to abduct a girl from and then waited for a girl who fit his mental profile to come along. When two came along, it was bonus time for him.

I keep going back to the Groene case. Duncan didn't know the Groenes but he saw two children playing in front of the house that caught his attention, spent two days observing the house and occupants and made his move. Which meant that he was totally not even on the radar as a suspect.

Incidentally, I recently learned that Steve Groene, their father, failed the polygraph. He passed on all the questions except "do you know where Dylan and Shasta are?" Fortunately, LE did not let that false indication derail their investigation too far. They did concentrate on Steve Groene but continued to follow up other leads. Me, I think it is perfectly reasonable for a loving father to have a strong emotional reaction just to the question of where his children are when he is completely innocent and terrified about their safety. The danger is when LE puts too much weight on the results of that particular piece of junk science.


Sorry if this has already been mentioned, as I have just been reading through the whole forum and came across yours. My husband and I went down the day of to help search and they DID take the names of anyone walking around the lake at that time. My husband and I were both questioned and asked to provide identification and reason we were there.
 
Well, here we are 4 years later posting in the cold case section about Lyric and Lizzy. I don't know what else to say. RIP sweet girls.

It's a very sad anniversary indeed I would be interested to know what the authorities think about the case now. We will be here waiting for the perp to be caught no matter how long it takes.
 
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, as I have just been reading through the whole forum and came across yours. My husband and I went down the day of to help search and they DID take the names of anyone walking around the lake at that time. My husband and I were both questioned and asked to provide identification and reason we were there.

First of all, thank you very much, to both you and your husband.

I'm glad they were keeping records of who was there and particularly impressed that they were checking IDs. It is awful to think about but there's definitely a chance that the perp's name is somewhere on that list.
 
I can't believe 4 years have come and there is still no justice for these 2 angels. Heartbreaking.

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Sorry if this has already been mentioned, as I have just been reading through the whole forum and came across yours. My husband and I went down the day of to help search and they DID take the names of anyone walking around the lake at that time. My husband and I were both questioned and asked to provide identification and reason we were there.
Glad to have you at WS.

What are your thoughts on what happened to the girls?



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Glad to have you at WS.

What are your thoughts on what happened to the girls?

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

Oh boy, that's a steep, slippery slope I've been traversing for the last 4 years. I'm a crime buff with a deep interest in criminal psychology and profiling, with an AA in Criminal Justice, but never went anywhere with it. And I have a stepdaughter who was (is) the girls age, live in the same area, and rides her bike along some of the same routes. I've engulfed myself so much with this case (and others) at times that, I end up sitting in a dark room on a lap top, being powered solely on Doritos and Mountain Dew. So please bear with me, but here goes...

I think we are dealing with someone who is much more a "Zach Morris" than a "Wally" (see previous posts in forum). A "Zach Morris" is, well, just that, just like the Saved by the Bell character; cool, confident, suave and charismatic. Perhaps slightly narcissistic. He's clean-cut, not super slim or muscular, but average. Not particularly attractive, but okay looking. Between 28 -34 years of age at the time. He's likeable, but not dateable. He lives alone, and all of his romantic relationships end suddenly because he let's his "dark side" show. His egotistical aspect comes from an unapproving father who raised him to understand men are to be the power gender, and women are the subserviant gender. His mother would've been meek and obeyed. He understood the change of todays world, that not all women are meek and powerless and was able to "charm" his way into people's lives before showing his true need for power as a 'man'. This guy wouldn't seem the type to do this. He works in a repetitive factory job in the area (Tyson, John Deere, Bertch Cabinets, etc).

I haven't quite decided how I feel he got them into the car other than he used his charming wit in some way. This was a crime of opportunity, he saw, he followed, he conquered. He was at his wits-end with rejection from females and knew he could 'overpower' a child. I don't feel he threatened them into the vehicle. But he had to have some macho confidence to take two instead of one. The immediate risk of taking two is: - one could run -both could fight -possible bigger commotion. I feel this was his first major crime (priors may be domestic abuse, sexual harassment...) and he was counting on one, perhaps saw just one girl at some point (with the other being out of view), but when two arrived he had an ego-boost of "I can take two AND get away with it", but once in the car *SOMEONE* saw them (and either has forgotten or isn't able to put two-and-two together) and that made him panic and take the girls out of town. I don't feel it was specifically sexual in nature, but more of a power trip that may have included sexual acts.

This isn't someone anyone would suspect; he's never preyed on children before, but this opportunity gave him a power trip that was comparable to a drug high. He may have become slightly more paranoid after the incident, but hasn't really "let on" to anyone that he could be involved. He doesn't feel bad or good about what he'd done. He's neutral, without care. After the murders were over, he lost his high and just "exists" again.

He's much like a young Bundy, minus the looks, and if given the opportunity, he will offend again, but at this time his paranoia is keeping him from attempting anything.

Sorry if this seems like rambling, and it's the complete opposite of everyone else's profiling, but I just don't get the feeling that this guy was a "creep". I feel he is someone just average, but above average enough to not stick out and hasn't really 'let out' his inner demons to anyone but perhaps nibs of it to those he may have courted.

I could be entirely wrong...we could all be entirely wrong...This is just my gut feeling and knowledge from all the documents I've read in the past.
 
Keeping the girls in my brain's heart.
:rose: :heartbeat: :rose:
 
From the first post in Morgan's thread -

she was taken in daylight about 1 pm... right outside her apartment complex.. she and a friend were riding their bikes.. the abductor tried to grab the other girl also but she got away.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...organ-Jade-Violi-7-Bowling-Green-24-July-1996

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Doolin-7-Allen-County-14-Nov-2015-*ARREST*-1


That is one thing I get back to. A possible explanation about how Lizzie's purse ended up where it did. Did he get Lyric to the car and, let's assume, knock her out, upon seeing this Lizzie tried to run and he took after her, grabbed her, which resulted in her dropping her purse? Or was the purse with the bikes and before anyone could find them SOMEONE ELSE thought maybe they'd score some buck and when they realized it was a kid's purse they just tossed it? The location of the purse and the reason for it being where it was is the one thing that befuddles any theory I come up with regarding the actual abduction.
 
Oh boy, that's a steep, slippery slope I've been traversing for the last 4 years. I'm a crime buff with a deep interest in criminal psychology and profiling, with an AA in Criminal Justice, but never went anywhere with it. And I have a stepdaughter who was (is) the girls age, live in the same area, and rides her bike along some of the same routes. I've engulfed myself so much with this case (and others) at times that, I end up sitting in a dark room on a lap top, being powered solely on Doritos and Mountain Dew. So please bear with me, but here goes...

I think we are dealing with someone who is much more a "Zach Morris" than a "Wally" (see previous posts in forum). A "Zach Morris" is, well, just that, just like the Saved by the Bell character; cool, confident, suave and charismatic. Perhaps slightly narcissistic. He's clean-cut, not super slim or muscular, but average. Not particularly attractive, but okay looking. Between 28 -34 years of age at the time. He's likeable, but not dateable. He lives alone, and all of his romantic relationships end suddenly because he let's his "dark side" show. His egotistical aspect comes from an unapproving father who raised him to understand men are to be the power gender, and women are the subserviant gender. His mother would've been meek and obeyed. He understood the change of todays world, that not all women are meek and powerless and was able to "charm" his way into people's lives before showing his true need for power as a 'man'. This guy wouldn't seem the type to do this. He works in a repetitive factory job in the area (Tyson, John Deere, Bertch Cabinets, etc).

I haven't quite decided how I feel he got them into the car other than he used his charming wit in some way. This was a crime of opportunity, he saw, he followed, he conquered. He was at his wits-end with rejection from females and knew he could 'overpower' a child. I don't feel he threatened them into the vehicle. But he had to have some macho confidence to take two instead of one. The immediate risk of taking two is: - one could run -both could fight -possible bigger commotion. I feel this was his first major crime (priors may be domestic abuse, sexual harassment...) and he was counting on one, perhaps saw just one girl at some point (with the other being out of view), but when two arrived he had an ego-boost of "I can take two AND get away with it", but once in the car *SOMEONE* saw them (and either has forgotten or isn't able to put two-and-two together) and that made him panic and take the girls out of town. I don't feel it was specifically sexual in nature, but more of a power trip that may have included sexual acts.

This isn't someone anyone would suspect; he's never preyed on children before, but this opportunity gave him a power trip that was comparable to a drug high. He may have become slightly more paranoid after the incident, but hasn't really "let on" to anyone that he could be involved. He doesn't feel bad or good about what he'd done. He's neutral, without care. After the murders were over, he lost his high and just "exists" again.

He's much like a young Bundy, minus the looks, and if given the opportunity, he will offend again, but at this time his paranoia is keeping him from attempting anything.

Sorry if this seems like rambling, and it's the complete opposite of everyone else's profiling, but I just don't get the feeling that this guy was a "creep". I feel he is someone just average, but above average enough to not stick out and hasn't really 'let out' his inner demons to anyone but perhaps nibs of it to those he may have courted.

I could be entirely wrong...we could all be entirely wrong...This is just my gut feeling and knowledge from all the documents I've read in the past.
Well thank-you very much for your well thought out profile.

What are your thoughts on the recovery location, the familiarity of the perp with the grounds and the way the girls were positioned?

Do you think the offender immersed himself in the search or investigation at all?

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Well thank-you very much for your well thought out profile.

What are your thoughts on the recovery location, the familiarity of the perp with the grounds and the way the girls were positioned?

Do you think the offender immersed himself in the search or investigation at all?

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


What are your thoughts on the recovery location, the familiarity of the perp with the grounds and the way the girls were positioned?

He is familiar with the location, whether it be a party place or a place his father took him hunting/fishing in his youth. He hadn't gone back there frequently, but now after the murders, he has likely returned a time or two. Most likely within the last year or two, as not to call attention to himself.

As far as the positioning of the girls, since we don't know the exact position of the bodies each, we can only assume one of many theories:
-He placed one girl, couldn't see where he put her and just happened to place the other further away
-Depending on the state of decomposition and when they were placed, the body could have been moved by an animal
-As he finished placing one, he heard a vehicle/person, was spooked and 'tossed' one from where he stood
-The girls were both alive when they arrived at Seven Bridges, he killed one, the other ran and he caught up to her where she was found

Not knowing X amount of other details, I couldn't tell you for sure which theory could be close to correct or if any of them are. I do however commend LE for keeping so close to the breast on the details of the recovery. It will help ensure that if someone slips up, they have a significant amount of information that can nail their coffin shut.

Do you think the offender immersed himself in the search or investigation at all?

Yes. Most likely he was there at the vigils, perhaps even gave Heather, Drew, Misty or Dan a hug or kind words, visits the Angel's Park and closely follows the case. BUT! he is sure not to let on to anyone else just how closely he follows it. He doesn't "care" or feel anything toward what he did, but he is paranoid of being caught, so he may put on the facade of sadness, but is really basking in his 'accomplishment'. He delights in the fact that he can attend these vigils, memorial rides and such, and no one knows the truth. It's a thrill, a push of endorphins, a high, for him. That he knows something no one else does.
 
Oh boy, that's a steep, slippery slope I've been traversing for the last 4 years. I'm a crime buff with a deep interest in criminal psychology and profiling, with an AA in Criminal Justice, but never went anywhere with it. And I have a stepdaughter who was (is) the girls age, live in the same area, and rides her bike along some of the same routes. I've engulfed myself so much with this case (and others) at times that, I end up sitting in a dark room on a lap top, being powered solely on Doritos and Mountain Dew. So please bear with me, but here goes...

I think we are dealing with someone who is much more a "Zach Morris" than a "Wally" (see previous posts in forum). A "Zach Morris" is, well, just that, just like the Saved by the Bell character; cool, confident, suave and charismatic. Perhaps slightly narcissistic. He's clean-cut, not super slim or muscular, but average. Not particularly attractive, but okay looking. Between 28 -34 years of age at the time. He's likeable, but not dateable. He lives alone, and all of his romantic relationships end suddenly because he let's his "dark side" show. His egotistical aspect comes from an unapproving father who raised him to understand men are to be the power gender, and women are the subserviant gender. His mother would've been meek and obeyed. He understood the change of todays world, that not all women are meek and powerless and was able to "charm" his way into people's lives before showing his true need for power as a 'man'. This guy wouldn't seem the type to do this. He works in a repetitive factory job in the area (Tyson, John Deere, Bertch Cabinets, etc).

I haven't quite decided how I feel he got them into the car other than he used his charming wit in some way. This was a crime of opportunity, he saw, he followed, he conquered. He was at his wits-end with rejection from females and knew he could 'overpower' a child. I don't feel he threatened them into the vehicle. But he had to have some macho confidence to take two instead of one. The immediate risk of taking two is: - one could run -both could fight -possible bigger commotion. I feel this was his first major crime (priors may be domestic abuse, sexual harassment...) and he was counting on one, perhaps saw just one girl at some point (with the other being out of view), but when two arrived he had an ego-boost of "I can take two AND get away with it", but once in the car *SOMEONE* saw them (and either has forgotten or isn't able to put two-and-two together) and that made him panic and take the girls out of town. I don't feel it was specifically sexual in nature, but more of a power trip that may have included sexual acts.

This isn't someone anyone would suspect; he's never preyed on children before, but this opportunity gave him a power trip that was comparable to a drug high. He may have become slightly more paranoid after the incident, but hasn't really "let on" to anyone that he could be involved. He doesn't feel bad or good about what he'd done. He's neutral, without care. After the murders were over, he lost his high and just "exists" again.

He's much like a young Bundy, minus the looks, and if given the opportunity, he will offend again, but at this time his paranoia is keeping him from attempting anything.

Sorry if this seems like rambling, and it's the complete opposite of everyone else's profiling, but I just don't get the feeling that this guy was a "creep". I feel he is someone just average, but above average enough to not stick out and hasn't really 'let out' his inner demons to anyone but perhaps nibs of it to those he may have courted.

I could be entirely wrong...we could all be entirely wrong...This is just my gut feeling and knowledge from all the documents I've read in the past.

What are your thoughts on the recovery location, the familiarity of the perp with the grounds and the way the girls were positioned?

He is familiar with the location, whether it be a party place or a place his father took him hunting/fishing in his youth. He hadn't gone back there frequently, but now after the murders, he has likely returned a time or two. Most likely within the last year or two, as not to call attention to himself.

As far as the positioning of the girls, since we don't know the exact position of the bodies each, we can only assume one of many theories:
-He placed one girl, couldn't see where he put her and just happened to place the other further away
-Depending on the state of decomposition and when they were placed, the body could have been moved by an animal
-As he finished placing one, he heard a vehicle/person, was spooked and 'tossed' one from where he stood
-The girls were both alive when they arrived at Seven Bridges, he killed one, the other ran and he caught up to her where she was found

Not knowing X amount of other details, I couldn't tell you for sure which theory could be close to correct or if any of them are. I do however commend LE for keeping so close to the breast on the details of the recovery. It will help ensure that if someone slips up, they have a significant amount of information that can nail their coffin shut.

Do you think the offender immersed himself in the search or investigation at all?

Yes. Most likely he was there at the vigils, perhaps even gave Heather, Drew, Misty or Dan a hug or kind words, visits the Angel's Park and closely follows the case. BUT! he is sure not to let on to anyone else just how closely he follows it. He doesn't "care" or feel anything toward what he did, but he is paranoid of being caught, so he may put on the facade of sadness, but is really basking in his 'accomplishment'. He delights in the fact that he can attend these vigils, memorial rides and such, and no one knows the truth. It's a thrill, a push of endorphins, a high, for him. That he knows something no one else does.

I think you are right on in your suspicions, and with one simple addition the gaps are closed - this person is a close friend of the Collins' family. Be it by a friend of of Drew, Heather, or one of their children via a friend's parent.

He would easily be able to and almost be expected to be helping in the searches, attend the vigils, be deeply concerned about the case. To the point that if he WASN'T there, it would have thrown up red flags. Lizzy would likely willingly go with this charmer and not think twice and Lyric would follow suit. Even if someone DID see them with this person they probably wouldn't think a thing of it - so much so that days of seeing them with this person could think they've confused that day with another day even that week they'd seen them together.

I am following the Gabriella Doolin case and this case could be eerily similar. The man who killed her was a close friend of the family. Hell, he killed her right at the football game their families were attending - their kids were very close friends! I agree with your profile, but I just have had this gut feeling that this person isn't a stranger at all - and if/when an arrest is made, it will devastate this family all over again due to the identity of the perp.

ETA: The wife of Gabriella's killer is spot on for the wife of the suspect whom you've described. She is defending him, and so is the son (to the point that he was charged for threatening local PD investigating the case). She is very meek, believes every word this man says, and defends that they have the wrong person - he would NEVER harm a child, etc. LE has DNA evidence proving it was him and she was (last I'd read) defending him still. She is just so broken she can't accept what's right in front of her face - she simply doesn't believe he's capable of such an atrocious act - nor do his children.
 
I think you are right on in your suspicions, and with one simple addition the gaps are closed - this person is a close friend of the Collins' family. Be it by a friend of of Drew, Heather, or one of their children via a friend's parent.

He would easily be able to and almost be expected to be helping in the searches, attend the vigils, be deeply concerned about the case. To the point that if he WASN'T there, it would have thrown up red flags. Lizzy would likely willingly go with this charmer and not think twice and Lyric would follow suit. Even if someone DID see them with this person they probably wouldn't think a thing of it - so much so that days of seeing them with this person could think they've confused that day with another day even that week they'd seen them together.

I am following the Gabriella Doolin case and this case could be eerily similar. The man who killed her was a close friend of the family. Hell, he killed her right at the football game their families were attending - their kids were very close friends! I agree with your profile, but I just have had this gut feeling that this person isn't a stranger at all - and if/when an arrest is made, it will devastate this family all over again due to the identity of the perp.

ETA: The wife of Gabriella's killer is spot on for the wife of the suspect whom you've described. She is defending him, and so is the son (to the point that he was charged for threatening local PD investigating the case). She is very meek, believes every word this man says, and defends that they have the wrong person - he would NEVER harm a child, etc. LE has DNA evidence proving it was him and she was (last I'd read) defending him still. She is just so broken she can't accept what's right in front of her face - she simply doesn't believe he's capable of such an atrocious act - nor do his children.




I've danced around with that theory so much...Is it a stranger? A friend? An acquaintance? I don't think it's a stranger in the most common understanding of the word. It's someone in the parents lives that would be considered a trusted individual. The best way to describe it is the relationship you would have with your Priest/Pastor. You *know* them, you trust them based on their profession, but you don't know the detail of their personal life. (Not saying it's a clergyman, just using it as a relationship comparison).
 
Can anyone point me to a picture of where their bikes where found? I was in Evansdale the other day. I went by the bike path. If their bikes where found where I think they were then it all makes sense now. But I am not 100% sure where their bikes where found.

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