CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

[Sleuth99]

This is not why I was discussing the matter. Adverse Childhood Experiences create trauma. Attachment issues create real struggles for kids. Reactive Attachment Disorder is real and is overwhelming. I work in the school system, and ACEs and Trauma/Resilience are two main areas of my work. I was saying that pretty much anyone would likely struggle to provide the home these children needed, especially all six of them. But pretty much no one would create the abusive environment these women appear to have created. I have watched many families go through great lengths to support their adoptive or foster children. It is not easy, and the vast majority do an incredible job and give children the chance to live a good life. Some are not up to the challenge and sadly are not able to follow through, and send children back to the system.

My point was, the two women were not capable or able to reach out for help and never should have been approved to adopt.

Ok so you said
I was saying that pretty much anyone would likely struggle to provide the home these children needed, especially all six of them.

(If they had RAD?) right? do you know if they had RAD or any other disorder?

The women turned help away.


IMO

 

[Hatfield]

Thanks Jinkasauros for the quiz, I think its a good and realistic one. I am always told I can read minds but in reality its the faces/eyes that I glean the most from.
Score-38

Wow. That is a really good score. Lots of people here are doing well at it. Lots of good sleuthers we have at WS

 

[kkdj]

Thanks Jinkasauros for the quiz, I think its a good and realistic one. I am always told I can read minds but in reality its the faces/eyes that I glean the most from.
Score-38

Same here. Micro expressions thru facial twinges and the eyes. Happens almost faster than one can see it and most don't. Dead giveaways. Never failed me. Not once.

 

[spiritseeker31]

People here on WS, sadly, have questioned the kids. [emoji174]

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I dont think its really a matter of questioning them. Its trying to look at all sides of things.

 

[PrinceFan]

There is a lot of talk about the subject in general. And maybe the subject in general should include WHY there are so many Children of Color in the foster pipeline, and so few POC stepping up to foster/adopt them.

You are very incorrect when you say so few POC step up to adopt. stringent rules, red tape, unrealistic & ureasonable expectations towards black couples/family adopting, white couples are handed over the pick of the litter like the Harts. My father and uncle adopted and both took over 5 years to adopt. POC are going overseas to adopt.

 

[musemoon]

What are the criteria to adopt? What is the agencies benefit if the children are adopted?

Here is a the national report on foster care and adoption for the last fiscal year.

https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/cb/afcarsreport24.pdf

It actually shows white children as being in the highest number...however, when I adopted I was told if you were open to race you would most likely be placed with a child of color.

To adopt.... (every adoption through foster care is different, but here are the basic guidelines) you need to be able to support yourself and your current family (but not the foster/adoptive child) you have to have room for the child in your home (one to two babies can sleep in the parents room and each bedroom can only house two children...this is in CA) That's it, you have to submit your finger prints for an FBI record, your home is investigated (cleanliness, safety etc) you are interviewed (no prior drug problems, relationship issues, abuse in your family etc) and then a report is made, you tell the adoption placement worker what you are and are not comfortable with as far as special needs go and in a day to a few months to a year, you are placed with a child. The biological parents have a year to follow their case plan to get the kids back into their custody. When the biological parents are at the point of losing custody, if they reach that point, their family is offered an opportunity to adopt the child, if their relatives do not come forward the foster adoptive parent can adopt.

Reasons why the bio family (who we have open contact with in our adoption) chose not to adopt my children was, with one, they knew the drugs the bio mom took while pregnant and couldn't "take a child who had been exposed to so many drugs" so she stayed with me. The second the bio family was already raising many of the kids who had come into the system from their family and I was told the family didn't want another child with the bio mom and bio grandmom's mental illness. I didn't know my newborn would end up with the biological mental illness of her mom, aunt, uncle and grandmother...but she did.

Black people and people of any color are always welcome to adopt children through foster care there are about 30,000 children at any given time who need homes. If anyone wants to do right by the kids who are still out there suffering, perhaps the Hart story will inspire people to adopt those children, especially the ones listed on the all4kids website who are there because they are hard to place.

I am adopting again....one reason, our therapists think it would be good for our family (long reason won't get into) and two there are just so many kids who need homes. We have a fun home, my kids are doing great, they have been through a lot and may go through more still, but we're doing good. I'm not out to save anyone...but provide a child a home and so can anyone else and I hope and pray they do.

I don't know what the benefit to the agency is other than I know the agency I worked with provided foster care, foster/adoption, parent resources, birth family resources and support, support groups, therapy, etc.

 

[human]

If people are not familiar with adverse childhoid experiences, here is the link. It is really excellent. It is being instituted in many states and coordinates with doctors, social workers, LE.

People feel this will make a change that instead of looking at behaviors as challenging, rather they are looked at through the lens of trauma. Then they can be addressed in a way that is not punitive.

https://www.samhsa.gov/capt/practic...havioral-health/adverse-childhood-experiences

 

[musemoon]

You are very incorrect when you say so few POC step up to adopt. stringent rules, red tape, unrealistic & ureasonable expectations towards black couples/family adopting, white couples are handed over the pick of the litter like the Harts. My father and uncle adopted and both took over 5 years to adopt. POC are going overseas to adopt.

Sorry your family had so much trouble adopting through foster care people who are willing and wanted to be adoptive parents should be.

 

[Gooddeeds]

Then you blew the bank, the limit is 36.

Guess it´s a typo. :loveyou:

Yes, it’s 36. I did it twice.

 

[Hatfield]

have five theories as to what happened to the missing children I think they're all possibilities or it could be something I haven't guessed but here's my theories:

1. Devonte and the missing girls came up with an escape plan and were able to plan it out and took off with the dogs. This would be the reason if true that Sarah and Jen would take off with the other 3 kids fearing cps would find out that other kids were gone. Which leads us to now the three remaining kids still hiding fearing the moms.

2. The moms could have of found out about the food devonte was getting, confronted him and the other two girls and possibly killed them and took off with the other kids first getting rid of the bodies then going over the cliff.

3. Devonte and the girls could have escaped during the trip if the mothers stopped off some where. The moms could have got so enraged when they realized that they drove off the cliff in anger. Which leads us to now the three remaining kids still hiding fearing the moms.

4. Devonte and the girls as a form of punishment were left in the woods or else where as a form of punishment. This could have led to an argument between the mother's one of them trying to reason with the other saying they went too far and to go back for the kids. This could have triggered the other mother to then out of anger go over the cliff. Meaning Devonte and the girls are out there somewhere waiting for the mothers to come back for them.

5. This one is a bit of a stretch but still worth a mention. Maybe the girls passed away awhile ago due to starvation, Devonte did tell the neighbors the mothers were starving him to death. Maybe before the cps worker showed up Devonte also died of starvation and when cps showed up the mother's panicked and went to dispose of the bodies before realizing they couldn't go back home now that cps was onto them and so they went off the cliff.

6. The kids were all actually in the suv and the three kids who were missing weren't seat belted in and maybe were thrown from the suv further out if they were sitting in the back with the dogs. The other 3 kids who were found outside the suv maybe were alive for a short time after the crash and got out of the suv.

These are all possible theories to me.

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Number 4 Has been my theory.

We live in the area, when this first came out, I thought it odd only Moms were buckled. I've always felt they hoped they would live with injuries and the kids would not survive. I figured they would say kids were sleeping and they allowed them to unbuckle.

Now that three are missing, I think they were furious that two of the three were the tattle tails and they punished them by dropping them off some where. I fear those three kids were left behind to survive on their own.

JMO
These are good options of where the missing 3 could be.

I wanted to add a variation to #1.
Maybe just wishful thinking but was wondering if the 3 managed to escape to one of the "groups" that they had visited and camped with. If one of the groups are living off-the-grid then could it be possible they are not aware of the news and think they are protecting the 3 children from the Moms. It could be one reason why they have not been found yet.

Sadly I have to lean towards #2 at this point. I dont know why they would not have just drove everyone off the cliff at the same time though. Maybe they saw how the 3 were getting wise to them and killed them the first chance they could get at a rural campsite. Not sure if they were known to have a gun with them or not. If they killed them it would have had to have been a gun I would think.

Sadly option #2 is becoming more of a possibility as time goes on and they are not found in the ocean or anywhere else.

 

[11223344]

They call and let them know they are coming. CPH. "Courtesy" Call. Here in Mass, they set up an appointment with people. They give them warning prior to showing. I also read something that they had LE do 2 well being checks early the next week when CPH couldn't find them.

 

[Holl]

I read some earlier posts about 2 dogs being in the crash? Could someone please update me on how it was determined that the family had 2 dogs with them? I honestly have high hopes that DH stock piled food, planned a getaway assuming all siblings would go but the other 3 stayed behind out of fear, then forced to go on trip. In the meantime DH, HH, and SH are hiding with no means of knowing the family has been killed and maybe even worried that CPS showed up, divided the family, and have police looking for them and they are afraid of getting separated and put up again. The "Me and Mr. Washington" song, lyrics, video, parents obsession with the song's artist , and overall crash is so very creepy and so terribly sad.

 

[kkdj]

I actually suspect this whole thing has nothing to do with the kids in particular. I suspect it might have more to do with the two women. The kids were loved or a part of both women's identity. a split up was probably being discussed and maybe some threats. One of them was suddenly carried out.

 

[human]

I actually suspect this whole thing has nothing to do with the kids in particular. I suspect it might have more to do with the two women. The kids were loved or a part of both women's identity. a split up was probably being discussed and maybe some threats. One of them was suddenly carried out.

The visit from CPS is merely coincidental?

 

[cvaldez1975]

22.low average

Same


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[Lilibet]

32!
That was super interesting, thank you for sharing!

Me too 32! That was fascinating.

 

[11223344]

Meant child services. I don't remember what it's called there. Here it's DCF

 

[11223344]

They call and let them know they are coming. CPH. "Courtesy" Call. Here in Mass, they set up an appointment with people. They give them warning prior to showing. I also read something that they had LE do 2 well being checks early the next week when CPH couldn't find them.

I meant child services (CPH) here they call it DCF don't remember acronym for Washington.

 

[beatrixpotter]

I think it's fair to make a distinction here. I agree that the children must have went through and or faced a high level of abuse and/or neglect before being adopted if they went through the system.

But not all abuse leads to trauma. There is no evidence that they suffered serious physical or psychological injury let alone developed behavioral issues before the Harts adopted them. Any thing that alludes to that is assumed. And these assumptions are being used as foundations for hypothesizing why these women were not able to be better parents, or what could have incited their actions and abuse toward the children and it's not fair. Like I said, I'm tired of it and it's unsubstantiated.


IMO

I'm just going to assume you've spent very little time with people who have adopted children out of situations like that if you think long term trauma or behavioral issues are something you can't assume or are uncommon. No one is justifying abuse because of this. But it's just sort of basic child development. Being abused while the brain is developing does not typically lead to healthy and resilient children with no long term problems.

I think there is a real disconnect in your comment to readily admit the children must have been through "a high level of abuse and or neglect" but that no one has the right to assume it lead to any long term issues with the children. Sorry, but children are NOT that resilient. And all the research out there substantiates this. Why would anyone attempt to downplay the long term effects of childhood neglect and abuse?

We can't simultaneously want children removed from abusive situations and then try and deny the long term effects of that abuse on the children. It doesn't absolve anyone who further mistreats them by admitting the long term difficulties they face! But it's not fair to anyone to deny the problems. It's especially not fair to the children. It's only acknowledgement of the issues and needs that helps insure that these children and their families get the support they need. And, yes, the families need support. The act of adoption doesn't actually automatically qualify any adult to deal with the psychological needs of children who are abused.

Families who adopt and the children they adopt need MORE long term support and care. And they need it in large part due to the very high rate of long term issues due to any previous abuse.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK195987/

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubpdfs/long_term_consequences.pdf

 

[cybervampira]

Harts likely received $270G from Texas after adopting kids from Houston area: report
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/0...r-adopting-kids-from-houston-area-report.html
The six children of the couple killed in last month's fatal plunge off a cliff along the Pacific Coast Highway in Northern California had all been adopted in the Houston area, records show.

The San Antonio Express-News reported that Jennifer Jean Hart received monthly adoption subsidies from Texas that “likely” amounted to $270,000 over the last decade.

Hart and her spouse, Sarah Hart, reportedly lived in Minnesota when the six children were adopted from Texas foster care. The first three siblings were adopted in Colorado County in 2006. The second group was adopted from Harris County in 2009.

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