Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #17 *ARREST*

[Marulinka]

IMO that has always been my thinking - he told the police that he had picked her up to take her home, but she came on to him and they went to the park and had consensual sex on the bench and then she ran off and he never saw her again. I think he told them that tale from the very beginning once he knew they had the spidercam footage of her getting in his car and him driving off. I also think they didn’t have evidence to disprove what he said even though they knew it was rubbish and they knew exactly what he had done. They were so lucky finding her body that day before she disappeared forever, but of course we don’t know what they have found from the post mortem. I don’t think he has confessed and I also don’t think they have found the people they asked for from CCTV. I think they believe they have enough evidence to persuade a jury of his guilt and get a conviction. Well I hope so anyway. I am guessing he will plead not guilty, force a trial and then we will see what his story is of that night and also what the police knew that we didn’t. I always believed he had killed her from the very beginning, but didn’t know how it could be proved. I really hope it can be.

Those who thought he didn’t act alone, do you still think that or are you now satisfied he did do this alone?

Very sensible theory. What are your thoughts on how he killed her and how the body got all the way to estuary?

From the beginning i thought he acted alone. I stand by that still. Purely based on nature of his previous offending and the Libby case circumstances. Small possibility someone helped dispose of body but my guess is no.

Btw it sounds incredibely harsh talking about the poor angel in such an impersonal manner. Just want to say her tragedy touched me deepely. First case i followed here on WS. It brought me here. May justice be served :.(

 

[Newthoughts]

Very sensible theory. What are your thoughts on how he killed her and how the body got all the way to estuary?

From the beginning i thought he acted alone. I stand by that still. Purely based on nature of his previous offending and the Libby case circumstances. Small possibility someone helped dispose of body but my guess is no.

Btw it sounds incredibely harsh talking about the poor angel in such an impersonal manner. Just want to say her tragedy touched me deepely. First case i followed here on WS. It brought me here. May justice be served :.(

To say I agree with what you say about being deeply upset by this tragedy. It is the first case I've followed here.

I really hope that justice is served and that his defence lawyer, at the very least, respects her memory.

 

[Sally4x]

Very sensible theory. What are your thoughts on how he killed her and how the body got all the way to estuary?

From the beginning i thought he acted alone. I stand by that still. Purely based on nature of his previous offending and the Libby case circumstances. Small possibility someone helped dispose of body but my guess is no.

Btw it sounds incredibely harsh talking about the poor angel in such an impersonal manner. Just want to say her tragedy touched me deepely. First case i followed here on WS. It brought me here. May justice be served :.(

I have no idea how he killed her. I still think she went to the river in the park, but many locals have doubted that she would have made her way to the Humber estuary that way without being seen, so I really don’t know.

I had read a few threads on here before Libby, but never joined and this was the case that finally got me to join. I have a daughter who is a month younger than Libby and she had been affected by the case as well and it changed her behaviour in the respect before then she would go home drunk in a taxi alone and now she won’t. This case gave me some sleepless nights and really hit me deeply as well. The same as you I really hope that justice is served and that Libby’s memory is respected and her family are not put through more than is needed.

 

[Marulinka]

The only other opinion I have is that if Libby hadn't been there that night we'd still be here discussing a murder charge against PR. I think he was just waiting for a victim.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely agree. He had already crossed many boundaries by then and IMO he was ready for the next step up in his offending. Sooner or later.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

I'm one of those that thought he'd had an accomplice and my opinion has now changed. I'd wondered if had part of the delay had been waiting to apprehend or extradite someone but it hasn't happened. I now think my opinion was wrong.

Like you I believed he'd killed her from nearly the beginning. Ever since he was charged with the Ventnor Road burglary back in Feb I've thought that. From what I'd heard that burglary was clearly sexually motivated and premeditated. I think the fact the girls that lived there were out meant they had a very lucky escape

I don't think he'll have confessed to anything either. My opinion is the story he fed his sister about the crying girl was going to be his initial claim. I wonder if he then claimed he'd had 'sex' to explain something else - maybe time in the park. Hence the rape charge. Unless there is other evidence.

I think the one true part of his story to his sister is that Libby was crying which I find strangely heartbreaking.

The only other opinion I have is that if Libby hadn't been there that night we'd still be here discussing a murder charge against PR. I think he was just waiting for a victim.

I am late seeing this news! I whooped just like several of you here!
I agree with you @Newthoughts That PR would have murdered someone else soon if Libby was not on that bench that night! His deviant acts were escalating! I always thought he murdered Libby. The one count where he maintained eye contact with the young lady while she was having sex with her boyfriend was prof to me that he was a lot more dangerous than we all thought in the beginning. He took pleasure is seeing girls frightened and he was getting more abs more brazen.
MOO IMHO MOO

 

[Via Marple]

If there was any sort of possibility she ran into the water would CPS have allowed a murder charge? And would they have used the term homicide rather than suspicious to describe her death?

Respectfully snipped

No, obviously prosecution believes in their charges. But defence will argue it was not the case. And they will do their utmost to find an alternative explanation. Starting from what story PR has told the police.

I have always felt for poor Libby, to have run into this monster. But when it comes to sleuthing, I do tend to appear very impersonal ...

 

[jamjim]

The only other opinion I have is that if Libby hadn't been there that night we'd still be here discussing a murder charge against PR. I think he was just waiting for a victim.

Absolutely agree. He had already crossed many boundaries by then and IMO he was ready for the next step up in his offending. Sooner or later.

I totally agree. His previous convictions were very telling. Not only was he brazenly masturbating in front of young girls, he was following them home and ejaculating on their front door. I'm certain that having a young, inebriated student in his car would have been the ultimate dream scenario for him.

 

[Newthoughts]

Respectfully snipped

No, obviously prosecution believes in their charges. But defence will argue it was not the case. And they will do their utmost to find an alternative explanation. Starting from what story PR has told the police.

I have always felt for poor Libby, to have run into this monster. But when it comes to sleuthing, I do tend to appear very impersonal ...

Sadly I agree with what you say about PR and his defence. I hate to think what lies they will manufacture to torture her family. I hope he pleads guilty but I don't think her will.

But I also think LE and the CPS use language cautiously and precisely and appear to have done so throughout this case. Early after his arrest we were all kept hoping because they continued to use the term missing person for a while

This is the first case I've followed so I'm not sure what is normal but I do wonder why the police said potential homicide when Libby was found rather than 'treating her death as suspicious'. I think they must have something to say that

I also agree about how hard it is to discuss this knowing that Libby has has her life brutally stolen from her. Her life was ahead of her.

 

[Marulinka]

Respectfully snipped

No, obviously prosecution believes in their charges. But defence will argue it was not the case. And they will do their utmost to find an alternative explanation. Starting from what story PR has told the police.

I have always felt for poor Libby, to have run into this monster. But when it comes to sleuthing, I do tend to appear very impersonal ...

BBM
The thing I like about this forum is that we are all on the same page. The case touched all our hearts. We all want the best closure possible to this horror story. Dont feel bad for sounding impersonal. Most of our posts sound like this. Like you said its the sleughthing aspect of it. Important is that we all care inside and we know tha you and others here do.

Sorry such a loong post

 

[Vermont24]

Just checking in. My thinking hasn't really changed from the start, but it will be interesting to see what details come to light over the coming months. Justice will be done.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

I have no idea how he killed her. I still think she went to the river in the park, but many locals have doubted that she would have made her way to the Humber estuary that way without being seen, so I really don’t know.

I had read a few threads on here before Libby, but never joined and this was the case that finally got me to join. I have a daughter who is a month younger than Libby and she had been affected by the case as well and it changed her behaviour in the respect before then she would go home drunk in a taxi alone and now she won’t. This case gave me some sleepless nights and really hit me deeply as well. The same as you I really hope that justice is served and that Libby’s memory is respected and her family are not put through more than is needed.

Im a local and i have always thought the same as you, we have lost many to that river albeit not as far up.

My guess on COD would be strangulation. So sad i dont want to write i think he squeezed her life away. God rest poor Libby. Moo

 

[Sally4x]

Im a local and i have always thought the same as you, we have lost many to that river albeit not as far up.

My guess on COD would be strangulation. So sad i dont want to write i think he squeezed her life away. God rest poor Libby. Moo

I agree - that is the most likely scenario.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Whatever happened, is horrific. I feel chills now knowing we all saw Spider Cam. I said at the time I thought he was thinking through whether to target Libby or not. Ugh. Shudder. Despite this I never thought he'd escalate to potential murder. RIP Libby.

 

[Plod]

I think that the delay in charge and release of the body may have been trying to pin down the rape charge - maybe the forensic testing of her body and clothes has taken months - I imagine they got the top forensic specialists in this country, and possibly further afield to look at the evidence. I was trying to read up on the forensic evidence in rape charges and how they pinpoint it - but it was just too horrible to imagine any victim going through that ordeal. They must have adequate forensic evidence to charge both rape and murder. I guess they are relying on proving rape, to justify the murder, because they can’t prove abduction (he’d argue she got in the car willingly?). I guess relying on previous admissions to sexual offences will further their proof.

 

[JosieJo]

Whatever happened, is horrific. I feel chills now knowing we all saw Spider Cam. I said at the time I thought he was thinking through whether to target Libby or not. Ugh. Shudder. Despite this I never thought he'd escalate to potential murder. RIP Libby.

I was also never certain he had escalated to murder .. i still am not now even, not until I've heard the evidence .. but i do feel it very likely now they have charged him.
I was always as certain as I could be he was responsible for her death but the police were having difficulty proving what had happened. I think he admitted taking her to the park and the length of time it took to find her made it difficult to disprove his version of events.
Until the charge I was still undecided whether I thought he had frightened her in the park from anything from flashing to sexual assault but she had got away from him and she ended up accidentally in the river and he ran off and left her...or whether he ended up strangling or suffocating her and putting her in the river himself...imo either were possible based on the little we knew before charge.
I'm not convinced at all he was sitting planning to escalate that night I think it was an opportunistic crime. He could have easily been sitting waiting to "see who he could watch or expose himself to" that night
He could have been planning to escalate.. he may not have been ...I think its impossible to know unless you are inside his head.
Now he has been charged I have faith they have the evidence to tell us what he did that night and hopefully get the justice libby deserves

 

[Miss_French]

Sadly I agree with what you say about PR and his defence. I hate to think what lies they will manufacture to torture her family.

Whilst this case is emotive, and there are a few unscrupulous law professionals, defence lawyers risk disbarment for unethical behaviour and don't 'manufacture lies' to 'torture' families.

 

[Newthoughts]

Whilst this case is emotive, and there are a few unscrupulous law professionals, defence lawyers risk disbarment for unethical behaviour and don't 'manufacture lies' to 'torture' families.

Look at what the family of Milly Dowler went through. Absolute torture at the hands of Bellfield's solicitor. Every teenage poem and ordinary teenage strop exaggerated and used against them to suggest she'd committed suicide. Destroying their memory of her.

Bellfield was undoubtedly entitled to a fair trial and possibly that defence but not in the way it was carried out.

If he defends himself by making claims about Libby that will have to be used.

 

[motherofdaughters]

I was also never certain he had escalated to murder .. i still am not now even, not until I've heard the evidence .. but i do feel it very likely now they have charged him.

Snipped by me so I don't take up a whole page.

I totally agree with you here.
I wonder if they've gone murder to have barter room to manslaughter?
Murder is s o hard to prove. The intent/planning.
They must have some concrete evidence to go straight in at murder.
Even if convicted the jury can still decide it's manslaughter I believe?

 

[Newthoughts]

Snipped by me so I don't take up a whole page.

I totally agree with you here.
I wonder if they've gone murder to have barter room to manslaughter?
Murder is s o hard to prove. The intent/planning.
They must have some concrete evidence to go straight in at murder.
Even if convicted the jury can still decide it's manslaughter I believe?

I'm intrigued by why you and @JosieJo doubt it's murder? I wholly agree we're not party to the evidence so we can't make the sorts of informed decisions the jury will have to make. All of our opinions could change. But from what little we know, I can't think of anything in his previous crimes suggest an individual that panics. Nor am I sure how manslaughter charge would play out?.

His guilty plea in August meant we only heard a fraction of what the judge had access to. That alone was quite chilling. But we do know the judge specifically stated in his summing up that PR was "Potentially a very dangerous individual".

We were all surprised by the 8 1/2 year sentence which seemed to rest on "principate of totality' suggesting to me that the judge thought the crimes serious enough to warrant being served consecutively. I don't know how rare that is but up to that point I'd assumed all sentences tried at the same point were served concurrently and I recall lots of people here had expected the same. Something must have been behind that decision.

We also know the judge threw out the defence plea that the crimes were opportunistic and specifically stated in his sentencing address that they were "planned, not on the spur of the moment".

We also know there must have been ample opportunities between spotting Libby and the end of that awful night where PR could have thought about what was happening and changed his mind. He could easily have committed his usual crime at the spot where he saw Libby. Leaving her terrified but physically unharmed. Ditto in his car and then left her unharmed.

This bit feels most horrible to say but he was bulky and strong - overpowering someone wouldn't have been a problem. Lots of rapists don't kill their victims because they don't need to to commit that crime. Surely that negates his one manslaughter chance.

And like everyone else I hate saying all of these things because of his victim. She had her while life ahead of her.

At the moment we really don't know

 

[Niner]

Wednesday, October 30th:
*Hearing – (@ am UK) – UK – Liberty “Libby” Anna Squire (21) (last seen Jan. 31, 2019 outside Welly Club in Hull; found Mar. 20, 2019 from Grimsby Docks in the Humber Estuary) - *Pawel Relowicz (24) arrested (2/6/19 on suspicion of abduction) charged (10/24/19) with murder & rape.
Was originally charged (3/18/19 & 5/10/19) with 5 counts of burglary, 4 counts of voyeurism, 3 counts of outraging public decency & 1 count of receiving stolen goods. On 8/12/19 plead guilty to 9 charges including voyeurism (4 counts), outraging public decency (2 counts) & burglary (3 counts). Relowicz jailed for eight & a half years.
10/24/19 Update: Charged (10/24/19) with murder & rape. Court appearance at the Hull Magistrates' Court on 10/30.