ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 14

[ChatteringBirds]

This tragedy seems to be breaking news:

Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”

4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody

Four University of Idaho students were found dead on Sunday, officials said.

abcnews.go.com

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Media Thread/No Discussion

Moscow ID Police Departement Facebook page

City of Moscow re King Road Homicide

Detectives are looking to develop context for the events and people involved in the four murders at 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders:

• Telephone: 208-883-7180
• Email: tipline@ci.moscow.id.us
• Digital Media: fbi.gov/moscowidaho

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

As Kaylee's parents said she was "a websleuth", we don't know if they meant she was an actual WSer or if it was used in a more generic sense.

If any member or guest reading here knows that Kaylee was in fact a Websleuths member, and her user ID, please send me a private message to advise. Tricia has asked me to find out as she would like to send flowers or make a donation to something in Kaylee's name.

Thank you.

 

[Sillybilly]

Please read The Rules (linked in my signature), and continue discussion here.

Also, for anyone other than victims or an officially named POI/suspect, use initials or your post will be removed.

No sleuthing or insinuations/accusations against anyone who is not officially named a POI/suspect by LE.

 

[Sillybilly]

Admin Note > Horse's mouth:

LE has said the skinned dog is not related.

Detectives are aware of a Latah County Sheriff’s Office incident of the report of a skinned dog and have determined it is unrelated to this incident. Contact Latah County Sheriff’s Office for further details. Additionally, Detectives are also aware of a Moscow Police incident of the report of deceased animals left on a resident’s property. This was determined to be wildlife activity and unrelated to the incident.

Members have been advised before not to discuss it any further. If you still wish to discuss it further, call the Sheriff's Office but don't post about it here or you may lose posting privileges.

Thank you.

 

[Sillybilly]

The following Johnny Law youtube was originally posted by Mayboy1998 earlier today but because it was not a podcast host we were familiar with and we did not have time to view it in its entirety, it was removed. Having now had time to view it, it is being approved on a one-time basis because it does seem to provide an excellent analysis of the layout of the house, where individuals may have been sleeping, and it speaks to the location of the red liquid in relation to the overall layout of the house.

 

[Sillybilly]

Please continue discussion here.

 

[Charlot123]

So I started looking for the types of trauma that could have been potentially incurred by the assailant himself from “overstabbing”. I haven’t found the areas yet, but this article indicates that forces generated in such attacks might be significant. I wonder if a shoulder joint will take most impact? I think the police might determine handedness, and potentially if it was man, or woman.

Forces generated in stabbing attacks: an evaluation of the utility of the mild, moderate and severe scale

The commonest way of killing in the UK is by a sharp instrument. Knight reported in 1975 that it is impossible to discern with any degree of certainty the degree of force used to create a stab wound. Despite this, expert witnesses continue to approximate ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This article is also interesting

What traumas to expect on the assailant

“The injuries occurring under these conditions are localized on the flexor side of the knife-holding hand and may include the index, middle, ring and little fingers. They are seen particularly often on the little finger at the level of the proximal phalanx and in the skin fold of the proximal interphalangeal joint. The majority of these cuts run transversely”

I also read about trigger finger from grabbing a knife. Maybe someone presented with such injuries at a doctor’s office, or was seen by acquaintances?

Cuts to the offender's own hand--unintentional self-infliction in the course of knife attacks - PubMed

In a knife attack the perpetrator can unintentionally injure his own hand, if the knife does not have an adequate handguard and the tip of the blade hits a solid, mostly bony structure while being violently thrust into the victim's body. The injuries occurring under these conditions are...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This, too. Sorry if it is too much. All kinds of traumas to assailants. Mostly, mechanisms of traumas related to cutting. My question, how would own shoulder/elbow feel after such a bloodbath because I think it is relevant, is not answered yet. Hope the guy cut himself.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/543841fce4b0299b22e1956a/t/54be9835e4b0705272ba0a8b/1421776949953/Self+Wounding+in+KNife+Attacks+Varnon+et.+al.+1995

 

[mayhem911]

Important update from CNN they are saying now as of 50 minutes ago that those people ruled out are only ruled out "for the time being".

 

[indicolite22]

LE on why they are not releasing the killer's profile:

"It will potentially put more fear, more suspicion on a wide variety of people..."

Idaho Student murders update: Police say why key details are being withheld from the public

Authorities are withholding key details from the public as they continue to investigate the murders of four University of Idaho students, including information about a suspect profile.

www.foxnews.com

Does it mean that they don't suspect someone close to the victims with a personal grudge that wouldn't be a danger to the public in general?

According to the interview, the police believe that one or more of the three women were targets, so not E.

 

[LAhiker]

Important update from CNN they are saying now as of 50 minutes ago that those people ruled out are only ruled out "for the time being".

Thanks for finding that. Here's a link to the CNN story:

2 weeks after police found 4 slain University of Idaho students, here's where the investigation stands | CNN

Two weeks after the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students, dozens of local, state and federal investigators are still working to determine who carried out the brutal attack.

www.cnn.com

 

[diabeticrockstar]

My personal theory, formed after reading a collection of opinions thru threads 12&13, several unusual discrepancies in the timeline & official releases, and statements given by family members to traditional media outlets:

I believe the intended target was Xana. (Secondary Q's: Has she always had the 2nd floor BR? What was father referring to when he stated she had "recently turned her life around"?). I believe there was a triggering event that occurred earlier in the night; the timeline given by LE still does not account for several hours. First they released X & E were at party from 8p to 130a. Then they changed it to 8p to 9p five days ago. Yesterday they ammend their timeline to say that X/E arrived back home at 130 but did not say they attended the party entire time. (Additionally, this would explain the specific request for tips about the frat party. There has been rampant, thus far not founded, rumors of an incident at that party. Frat also went dark online unlike the girls' sororities). Conflicting the released info is X'S father stating he talked to her around midnight. (Partying at a frat...take 5 min to call dad at midnight?). She told her dad that her and E were "staying at home to watch a movie"--if this is true I doubt police would leave the timeline as-is.

I initially believed the killer (singular) entered home via the 2nd floor sliding door. In this scenario going to the 3rd floor would be unnecessary and undermine my hypothesis. After the photos of roof, 3rd floor balcony, tree line, etc. I believe killer entered through 3rd floor sliding door-perhaps had waited on roof as one person theorized, but most likely utilizing the relative privacy of the wooded side of house and steep incline. I believe this entrance afforded killer most private entry, perhaps thinking he could sneak in, or that possibly the room would be unattended (Kaylee had been out of town)(Also goes back to my inquiry about previous room occupant). Killer enters and makes quick strike to K, possibly K & M both (I believe they were in same bed. But this info has not been released). Killer then moves on. Perhaps to M's room, perhaps surprised that the duo are each still awake (whether because of dog issue, drunk dialing, etc).

I believe that the red liquid photographed is that of blood (as ME or coroner had confirmed in a media interview). That is location of a 2nd floor bedroom according to Floorplan. I believe this scene was the most violent. (X w/ defensive wounds)(Visual blood loss through wall to outside). I think there is a possibility that either E or X had wounds/were staged leading LE to believe it was targeted. (An ex? A Greek member?)

I believe Killer exited via the far side of the 3rd balcony. I do believe that is blood (there is no other spots with "berries" leaving marks like that....and the marks are about the width apart as two hands lowering themselves down/hanging from the balcony to quietly as possible drop down).

Sorry. That was long. All MOO. I wanted to be clear and concise so to make clear.

I also do not believe Killer knew about or cared about the first floor & it's inhabitants. The 911 call and The Dog to me are interesting, but I believe they are intangibles not of direct importance to case. I believe the police somewhat "focusing" on K/M is a public misdirect, and that the specific request for info/tips regarding the frat party and subsequent events is very telling.

Edit: PHOTO BELOW for context of theory

 

[Bliss_Perth]

Kaylee Goncalves' father speaks out on the Idaho student murders investigation​

Kaylee Goncalves' father, Steve Goncalves, shared his thoughts on the investigation and the hunt for the killer on 'Lawrence Jones Cross Country.'
Kaylee Goncalves' father speaks out on the Idaho student murders investigation | Fox News Video

 

[Mayboy1998]

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24754/11-25-2022-Moscow-Homicide-Update?fbclid=IwAR1XTW2TljqSLYte3RCdnUqBEvTDEusmfFl4cg8_PLQdKOVC9n12DCKjIq8

Updated info. Above. Interesting to note they’ve added key phrasing “ at this time in the investigation “ to there disclaimer on who they do NOT believe are suspects.

 

[diabeticrockstar]

Thanks for finding that. Here's a link to the CNN story:

2 weeks after police found 4 slain University of Idaho students, here's where the investigation stands | CNN

Two weeks after the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students, dozens of local, state and federal investigators are still working to determine who carried out the brutal attack.

www.cnn.com

Best that I can tell all of their releases have said "as of now", "at this point in time", etc etc. I believe this is just the way they word it--they would probably open themselves up to serious scrutiny & even lawsuits if they publicly 100% cleared a person only for that person to be found guilty, especially when dealing with friends and family of the victims.

 

[scottr]

LE on why they are not releasing the killer's profile:

"It will potentially put more fear, more suspicion on a wide variety of people..."

Idaho Student murders update: Police say why key details are being withheld from the public

Authorities are withholding key details from the public as they continue to investigate the murders of four University of Idaho students, including information about a suspect profile.

www.foxnews.com

Does it mean that they don't suspect someone close to the victims with a personal grudge that wouldn't be a danger to the public in general?

According to the interview, the police believe that one or more of the three women were targets, so not E.

Let's say the profile they put out is a white male, 20-30, likely a student, outcast/loner, possibly a hunter.

If LE released something like that, it could be a lot of people in that area and would likely cause additional fear and or suspicion. I think it's also fair to say that if they were to release information about an actual profile determined by the FBI, someone would have to answer all the questions that would come along with that. Everyone would be asking why this, what that.

 

[wary]

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24754/11-25-2022-Moscow-Homicide-Update?fbclid=IwAR1XTW2TljqSLYte3RCdnUqBEvTDEusmfFl4cg8_PLQdKOVC9n12DCKjIq8

Updated info. Above. Interesting to note they’ve added key phrasing “ at this time in the investigation “ to there disclaimer on who they do NOT believe are suspects.

Maybe their point is that others may well be ADDED to the cleared list.

 

[Mayboy1998]

Maybe their point is that others may well be ADDED to the cleared list.

That’s a good point. Perhaps they could be waiting on DNA evidence to fully clear those?

 

[diabeticrockstar]

Thanks for finding that. Here's a link to the CNN story:

2 weeks after police found 4 slain University of Idaho students, here's where the investigation stands | CNN

Two weeks after the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students, dozens of local, state and federal investigators are still working to determine who carried out the brutal attack.

www.cnn.com

Also.....this is EXACTLY what I referred to in my last posted theory. Police changed X and E timeline to being at party til 9p and not returning home until 130a. That's 4.5 hours unaccounted for. There is no way that they possibly have 0 idea where the two were. There is no way they wouldn't post their whereabouts unless it was pertinent to the investigation. Something smells fishy

 

[diabeticrockstar]

https://www.ci.moscow.id.us/DocumentCenter/View/24754/11-25-2022-Moscow-Homicide-Update?fbclid=IwAR1XTW2TljqSLYte3RCdnUqBEvTDEusmfFl4cg8_PLQdKOVC9n12DCKjIq8

Updated info. Above. Interesting to note they’ve added key phrasing “ at this time in the investigation “ to there disclaimer on who they do NOT believe are suspects.

They have ALWAYS used wording similar to this. IE "At this time", "As of this point".... pretty SOP I believe.

 

[wary]

Let's say the profile they put out is a white male, 20-30, likely a student, outcast/loner, possibly a hunter.

If LE released something like that, it could be a lot of people in that area and would likely cause additional fear and or suspicion. I think it's also fair to say that if they were to release information about an actual profile determined by the FBI, someone would have to answer all the questions that would come along with that. Everyone would be asking why this, what that.

MOO

Besides the fact that profiles are a bit like horoscopes—very vague, and quite likely to be wrong.

MOO