ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 23

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The property is close to the street, open which may have been blurred by Google automation.

Although, authorities probably jumped on it to stop media pursuit, privacy.

Most likely, the owner/landlord did it. I doubt LE did it.
I meant ALL AROUND mental and physical. Slashing four people to death in their own home while asleep is not something that even the most mentally deranged person would never do. This is a spectacularly RARE event that requires a confluence of circumstances and it's HIGHLY UNLIKELY one (or more) of the victims would have encountered such a person by CHANCE. MOO

Oh dear. That second sentence is hard to interpret - but I think it's a very important topic and we should continue to explore it. I don't know what "not even the most deranged person would never do."

I would say that anyone who does such a crime meets the popular definition of deranged. I would also state, IMO, that such a person meets symptomatic criteria from various (perhaps several) DSM categories, possibly a new constellation of such traits. All of those traits origin in the human mind/brain. All of them impair or distort ordinary cognition (as the rest of us understand it).

I don't get your last sentence either. Are you saying the Nightstalker victims (similar crime) had all met their victims? Or EARSONS/GoldenStateKiller? (we call him EARONS here in California, btw, that other term was made up by someone who wanted to copyright it).

Sometimes this question keeps me awake at night, as I was acquainted with/had met one set of EARONS victims and my aunt (who knew one of the victims very very well) said she thought it was NOT random - but LE and courts never agreed. I still ponder it. I think Nightstalker was totally random. I think Manson killings were random insofar as Manson's intel given to the killers was based on past anger at the inhabitants of the house - who were no longer there.

You and I might be agreeing - the killer was deranged (not in an ordinary state of mind). I personally believe this was a chronic condition and that none of the victims did anything that night or prior to that night that would cause any non-deranged person to exact this kind of vengeance.

This is a very mentally disturbed killer.
 
The victims were likely a combination of: inebriated, asleep, defenseless, fatigued, and relaxed. The culprit’s physical ability is irrelevant, IMO.
I don’t know if I agree/disagree that the culprit’s physical ability is irrelevant, but the element of surprise needs to be added to that excellent list. The element of surprise all by itself can be incredibly disorienting to victims.
 
Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet. A cellular intercept is not a phone record. It's a monitoring device where you can listen in on people's phone calls. Not sure if they are legal in Idaho.

Yeah, tech isn't all everyone thinks it is. It's certainly not private, IMO.
With contemporary technology the capacity to analyse victims, perps and associates is mind boggling.

Log files, metadata, associations. You do not even need a phone present.

Warrants can be sought for social media analytics.

Then DNA left in the house by the perpetrator but if there is none, Im not willing to supposition motive

#1122 #king #moscow
 
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Was the Google Street view recently blurred out?
Other people on WS have stated that owner's can request addresses/homes be blurred.

I also believe that Google will blur high profile crime scenes on their own. The Cleveland house where 3 girls were held captive for years was blurred out not long after they escaped and the owner was arrested. I don't think the owner would have had access to a computer or phone to ask that it be blurred.
 
Is there some optimism here? Almost seems like it to me and the work progress sounds like things may be moving. Or maybe I'm just hoping!
LEA will be keeping a sharp eye out on anyone watching these proceedings.
The perp might mix in among the garden variety looky-loos.
They should close the surrounding areas, so that no one can get close to the scene or the relatives while this sensitive task takes place.
 
I think the intent here is that hiding in the home is additional unnecessary risk. If you know the basic layout of the home which you could find online because it's residents were so active on SM and real estate sites gave you floor plans, you'd know the best entry and exit points.

If you had been to the home even once or knew someone who had, you'd know that the home was frequently not locked and the residents were pretty laissez-faire about who was allowed on premises - aka it was deemed a 'party house'. Entering the home while the residents were out and hoping you could hide until everyone was home and asleep adds a significant amount of unnecessary risk for a house that was very easy to access.
Especially a house with a dog. No-one can really successfully hide from a dog. If the intruder tried to hide in a closet or something, the dog would probably have sniffed around there and barked or been unsettled. JMO
 
Will insurance cover that loss in the US? I expect it only covers crime scene clean up and I can’t see the home owner just throwing away a couple of hundred grand (I have no idea how much the house is worth). Insurance would likely pay to redo floors, etc. if they are stained/contaminated.
I would think that the property management firm and the owners of the home may be sued by the families IF it is found that exterior door locks were not working. Both organizations would have to carry liability insurance.
 
And, I’m sorry-lol, but wouldn’t the dog be sniffing around a closet or something? I can’t imagine Murphy not knowing someone was hiding within the home . Unless is was outside somewhere like a utility area or whatnot that’s been mentioned , do they have that? Just my opinion.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Murphy did detect something but decided to ignore it. As said previously, the house was known as a party house and various people came and went often. This may have brought Murphy’s guard down when encountering new people. Seeing new people is normal to him.

JMO
 
I meant ALL AROUND mental and physical. Slashing four people to death in their own home while asleep is not something that even the most mentally deranged person would never do. This is a spectacularly RARE event that requires a confluence of circumstances and it's HIGHLY UNLIKELY one (or more) of the victims would have encountered such a person by CHANCE. MOO
Well, yeah, I agree. Unlikely events are unlikely.
 
....The mayor should absolutely not have said anything of the sort before discussing the progress of the investigation and also making sure his statements were strategically aligned with the sort of info LE wanted to convey. At the time, I chalked up the mayor's statements as political hubris....
snipped for laser focus.
@LizWords. Thanks for your post. Political hubris is right imo.
On seeing the targeted & crime of passion quote early on, I thought media had confused Moscow's PD Chief & mayor. Then second time, I realized, no media goof: it was the mayor being quoted.

Did mayor want to show faith in his choice of city police chief, by ringing in on the crime or just grab some media attention? IDK, just seemed, well, unusual.

__________________________________________
Not unexpectedly, mayor appoints city police chief, per city code.
 
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The odds are staggering. But we do not have enough evidence to assume that this was a Mass Murderer, a Serial Killer or even a person who had a psychotic break. We cannot assume anything at this point.

Sorry if I've already responded, but I'm not fond of each person having their own definition of relevant crime terms.

This was, by definition (Justice Department, all LE) a mass murder.

This was, by definition, a mass murder.

It's understandable in these early weeks of the crime that we would struggle to use accepted definitions, but it does clog up the discussion to have to link over and over regarding a perfectly common and longterm definition provided by experts in criminal justice.
 
Yes, I agree. Up until today, I looked at the headlines and online sleuthing that was questioning the unknowns in X & E's timeline, and figured the police did have a pretty good idea of where they were, when they were there, and what they were doing, at least in a general sense if not specifically, and just hadn't shared those details with the public. It also didn't really seem to be a point of specific focus before today. Not that they didn't want info on it, it just wasn't really publicly prioritized like it is now, which led me to believe they either 1. had a decent amount of info and/or 2. didn't think X & E were the likely targets for whatever reasons.

After reading LE's direct statements about the need to nail down the specifics of the X & E timeline, it seems to me that they don't have nearly as much info as I thought they did about X & E.

Over the last few days, the walk-back/modifying of the potential victim targeting statements, and SG's reactions to those revisions by LE, it's slowly started to click for me. I really do think LE initially believed it was far more targeted, and not to general house, but to a specific girl(s). That is what they seemed to imply in their first week or so of pressers, where they spoke with more decision. And it's certainly what SG thinks LE led him to believe as well. I think when the mayor confidently stated it was targeted etc, then to be publicly corrected by LE, and then to shortly thereafter have LE qualify what sort of "targeting" is now on the table, the mayor reiterated what was a strong theory at the beginning.

The mayor should absolutely not have said anything of the sort before discussing the progress of the investigation and also making sure his statements were strategically aligned with the sort of info LE wanted to convey. At the time, I chalked up the mayor's statements as political hubris and didn't think much about it. I've worked with plenty of small-town political bureaucracies, and they are not fun, there are a lot of egos involved, political power struggles, and political grandstanding. But now I think the mayor may have been, kind of like SG, led to believe that the person-specific targeting theory was pretty solid (mentioned this before, but will say it one more time. as in the debbie collier case, i understand why LE truly believed it was targeted, and why they felt comfortable making pretty definitive statements that ended up being inaccurate after investigation. i'm not blaming them for believing certain evidence was indicative, just pointing out that things can appear one way, but there can be a myriad alternative explanations for what seems obvious initially).

So when the mayor repeats what he thinks is a fairly solid info (again, he shouldn't have done this without talking to LE and his administration first), LE has to say "wait hold up, no evidence it was targeted. but wait again, the house may have been targeted." Basically when the Mayor started the conflicting targeted statements whirlwind that seems to have pushed SG over the edge, LE was just finishing up a lot of more in depth review of info and expertise that made specific targeting less likely than they initially thought.

Wow, so yeah that was super convoluted. Sorry, it was rambling but i'm not going to bother trying to straighten up the flow. I'm basically saying I think they really did think K was targeted for legitimate reasons, but after three weeks and a whole lot of evidence later, they think it's less likely and they need more info on E & X to try to determine if there's any tangible connection to a potential suspect.

I think this is not going to be resolved in the near future. I think this is going to pan out more like the Delphi investigation, where it takes years and a ton of extensive digging and lead chasing to find the killer...
Incredible amount of info and details. And your last paragraph is spot on. It’s already gone cold…and like the Delphi case will get icy (if) before anyone is apprehended.
 
I wouldn’t be surprised if Murphy did detect something but decided to ignore it. As said previously, the house was known as a party house and various people came and went often. This may have brought Murphy’s guard down when encountering new people. Seeing new people is normal to him.

JMO
I suspect you are correct. I also think because this house was "open" and many people freely came and went (and partied, and bled and vomited, etc) that DNA is everywhere. Bless all those forensic folks searching for samples.

Moo
 
I don't really agree with that. I think the bulk of the drama and confusion around the targeted stuff was initiated by non-LE, the mayor, the prosecutor. But LE has absolutely made statements after that drama started that were somewhat in conflict with how they initially phrased it, and they have most definitively qualified targeted in a way that they didn't before.
Which statements, exactly? I agree they released some poorly written 'clarifications', but I don't recall anything that contradicted the "believed to be targeted" language that they've used consistently.

There may very well be something I missed or that I'm forgetting though.
 
I've seen a few comments about lawsuits against the home owner, but I don't understand the reason that there would be lawsuits.

What do you see as the reasons?
There would need to be negligence - such as exterior door locks that may not have been working. That would have made the exterior door vulnerable to intruders.
 
Would not BTK and Bundy fall under this definition? (Self proclaimed novice here who just likes true crime).

AFAIK, not Bundy until his last acts of murder. Perhaps he was going for some kind of record? But Bundy did not commit multiple mass killings.

Technically speaking, BTK has one mass murder and is a serial killer. He did not do mass serial killing (only one of his crime scenes had 3 or more dead). But yes, he could be in parallel to our killer in this case - if it is discovered he is also a serial killer.

If he becomes a mass serial killer (always killing 3 or more), that would be terrifying and completely new. Somehow, given the (so far) lack of signatures on this one crime, I'll just go with mass murder.

IOW, a person can be both. Hopefully, no one is ever going to be classified as a serial mass murdered (a serial killer who always kills 3 or more people at a time - although...with gang involvement, if we could ever pin such things down to singular perps, it wouldn't be as surprising).
 
I live in Australia, so don't this location. Is it common for hunters to live here? Clearly, the perpetrator was very skilled in hunting knife use. Someone who blends in with the college town crowd, and is a skilled (and very confident) user of such knives. Would that be common in this location? There are probably dozens of possible perps, but the highly skilled use of the knife must surely set him apart (killing 4 adults with it - no mean feat).
Many, many, people have shared similar thoughts throughout these threads, and you're not the first to say they were 'highly skilled' at using a knife. Respectfully, I don't understand this logic. What skill?
 
Most likely, the owner/landlord did it. I doubt LE did it.


Oh dear. That second sentence is hard to interpret - but I think it's a very important topic and we should continue to explore it. I don't know what "not even the most deranged person would never do."

I would say that anyone who does such a crime meets the popular definition of deranged. I would also state, IMO, that such a person meets symptomatic criteria from various (perhaps several) DSM categories, possibly a new constellation of such traits. All of those traits origin in the human mind/brain. All of them impair or distort ordinary cognition (as the rest of us understand it).

I don't get your last sentence either. Are you saying the Nightstalker victims (similar crime) had all met their victims? Or EARSONS/GoldenStateKiller? (we call him EARONS here in California, btw, that other term was made up by someone who wanted to copyright it).

Sometimes this question keeps me awake at night, as I was acquainted with/had met one set of EARONS victims and my aunt (who knew one of the victims very very well) said she thought it was NOT random - but LE and courts never agreed. I still ponder it. I think Nightstalker was totally random. I think Manson killings were random insofar as Manson's intel given to the killers was based on past anger at the inhabitants of the house - who were no longer there.

You and I might be agreeing - the killer was deranged (not in an ordinary state of mind). I personally believe this was a chronic condition and that none of the victims did anything that night or prior to that night that would cause any non-deranged person to exact this kind of vengeance.

This is a very mentally disturbed killer.
I tend to think the opposite is true. I believe the killer is psychopathic and, therefore, not mentally ill at all and in fact, enjoyed it. I think he was either slighted, disrespected or angered by 1 of the 4 at some point in the past and couldn't let go of this grudge. But who knows?
 
Other people on WS have stated that owner's can request addresses/homes be blurred.

I also believe that Google will blur high profile crime scenes on their own. The Cleveland house where 3 girls were held captive for years was blurred out not long after they escaped and the owner was arrested. I don't think the owner would have had access to a computer or phone to ask that it be blurred.
I don't believe that Google has any type of internal monitoring process so that they would automatically blur an incident's address. I could be wrong though.
But we have had plenty cases where LE or FBI will do a "scrub" of online identifiers. So they do the requesting.
Quite possible that's what occured in the case you are referencing/
 
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