UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #18

[sleuth777]

Sky News link:

Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murdering eight babies

Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION* thread

Thread #1 Thread #2 Thread #3 Thread #4 Thread #5 Thread #6 Thread #7 Thread #8 Thread #9
Thread #10 Thread #11 Thread #12 Thread #13 Thread #14 Thread #15 Thread #16 Thread #17

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This is a trial thread to discuss the trial only. It is not a general discussion thread.

Although WS is based in the USA, we do try to manage the various discussions according to laws of other countries.

As this trial is in the UK, the case is under sub judice so please stick to discussing the trial content without posting anything that violates the following principles:

Basically anything that may prejudice the accused’s right to a fair trial
Any suggestion, opinion, or direct accusation that the accused is either guilty OR innocent
(i.e. the accused cannot be called "the killer"; use "the accused", "the alleged killer", or "the defendant")
A defendant’s previous history of any offences is off limits
Scandalizing the court (disparaging judges, lawyers, any officer of the Court) is off limits
Broadcasting anything about proceedings which happen in the jury's absence is off limits
Any non compliance with an Order of the court is off limits

Note in the event of an Appeal subsequent to verdict:

Appeals are usually heard by senior judges who are not likely to be influenced by the media, therefore responsible comment is usually considered acceptable once a trial has concluded, regardless of if there is going to be an appeal.


Reference: UK Contempt of Court Act 1981

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

This is a reminder that ANY expressed opinion related to the guilt or innocence of the accused is sub judice. Please read Post #2 of the Opening Posts in this discussion.

As we don't have the staff to sit in this thread 24/7 to read posts in real time, please use the Report feature to alert Moderators to any post that you feel is sub judice and it will be reviewed and removed if necessary.

Also, this thread is to discuss the trial, not statistics or other cases.

Thank you.

 

[Tortoise]

"The detective asked: “Why would going into nursery one help?”

Letby replied: “Because I would see a different baby in there, and see a different scenario to the scenario I had at the time when he died.” [..]

“Because I think when you are going to the same incubator space and there is a different baby there you know you let the one you lost go. Until you go into that space, you see that baby until another baby goes in there.”

Lucy Letby ‘upset and frustrated’ minutes before baby collapsed


Baby A died on Mon 8th June in room 1
Baby B collapsed just after midnight on night-shift of Tue 9th/Wed 10th June in room 1
Baby C died on night-shift of Sat 13th/Sun 14th June in room 1

She had already gone back into room 1 again the night after baby A's death. It's not a very convincing explanation is it.

 

[ColourPurple]

"The detective asked: “Why would going into nursery one help?”

Letby replied: “Because I would see a different baby in there, and see a different scenario to the scenario I had at the time when he died.” [..]

“Because I think when you are going to the same incubator space and there is a different baby there you know you let the one you lost go. Until you go into that space, you see that baby until another baby goes in there.”

Lucy Letby ‘upset and frustrated’ minutes before baby collapsed


Baby A died on Mon 8th June in room 1
Baby B collapsed just after midnight on night-shift of Tue 9th/Wed 10th June in room 1
Baby C died on night-shift of Sat 13th/Sun 14th June in room 1

She had already gone back into room 1 again the night after baby A's death. It's not a very convincing explanation is it.

I wondered if the ventilators were in set incubator spaces or moved around room 1, as she also said it didn't have to be the "vented baby" she just needed to be in room 1. Making it sound more like she just wanted to be in that room regardless of whether there was a healthy baby in Baby A's incubator space.


During her night shift from June 13-14, she messaged a colleague: "I just keep thinking about [Monday]. Feel like I need to be in [neonatal unit room] 1 to overcome it, but [nursing colleague] said no x"

The colleague responded: "I agree with her, don't think it will help. You need a break from full-on ITU, you need to let it go or it will eat you up..."

Letby responds: "Not the vented baby necessarily, I just feel I need to be in 1, to get the image [of what happened] out of my head."

Lucy Letby trial: Baby allegedly murdered by nurse stopped breathing ‘without warning’

THE mother of a premature baby allegedly murdered by nurse Lucy Letby was told her son stopped breathing “without warning”, Manchester Crown…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

I wondered if the ventilators were in set incubator spaces or moved around room 1, as she also said it didn't have to be the "vented baby" she just needed to be in room 1. Making it sound more like she just wanted to be in that room regardless of whether there was a healthy baby in Baby A's incubator space.


During her night shift from June 13-14, she messaged a colleague: "I just keep thinking about [Monday]. Feel like I need to be in [neonatal unit room] 1 to overcome it, but [nursing colleague] said no x"

The colleague responded: "I agree with her, don't think it will help. You need a break from full-on ITU, you need to let it go or it will eat you up..."

Letby responds: "Not the vented baby necessarily, I just feel I need to be in 1, to get the image [of what happened] out of my head."

Lucy Letby trial: Baby allegedly murdered by nurse stopped breathing ‘without warning’

THE mother of a premature baby allegedly murdered by nurse Lucy Letby was told her son stopped breathing “without warning”, Manchester Crown…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

So what she's said is she doesn't just want to be in room 1 to see a well baby in that space, she wants a baby allocation in room 1. These texts were between 10pm-11pm, long after baby allocation for that shift. She admitted in the texts she'd already been in there doing meds. Her annoyance was about not being allocated a baby in room 1. All this stuff about clearing the vision from her mind was made up, imo.

 

[Tortoise]

Across the the middle of the note scribbled is the lettering ICU.

If it's this note you're referring to, between the heavy circle and the black blotch, I believe that line says

"lovewasallwe kill myself"

 

[Tortoise]

It's not until we get to baby G in September 2015 that we see babies in other nurseries collapsing and being moved to nursery 1 during LL's shift.

 

[Kemug]

well done!

I've got this for that note -

https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/resources/images/16683528/

Tigger LLetby :heart: LLetby

[black blotch covering the words 'I’m' ?] sorry I couldn’t save you. My best friend :heart: LL

[LOVE] Smudge

Today is your [birthday covered by black blotch] My best friend LL

Engage [space] I loved you [black ink heart] please help me <->

LL. [Tigger overwriting Love] was all we needed but time let us down

LOVE ^ LL. I can’t do this any more. LLetby

Please help me HELP HELP

Lovewasallweneededbuttimeletusdown. Minna

HELP ME LOVE Please help me

Please help me [Minna squashed in gap] please help me. HELP ME [love hearts in red and black]

Smudge [redacted] LOVE HELP I don’t want to engage [redacted]

I loved you what more could I have done [redacted]. [redacted]

Keeping self to

[…] couldn’t [Tigger] I have been enough for [black blotch] self [redacted] HELP

Was I really that bad a friend/person that you could do that to me. Smudge. I don’t deserve th[blotch]

I loved you + I think you knew that. [redacted] minna [redacted]

And now I am the bad guy – I wanted you to stand by me but you didn’t

I can’t do this anymore. LLetby. I can’t do it anymore [^Smudge] Retrospectively Lovewasallweneededbuttimeletusdown LOVE [red blotch]

Lovewasallweneededbuttimeletusdown [v I loved you]

Lovewasallweneededbuttimeletusdown [redacted]

Tigger [space] my best friend [redacted 3 words]

Bergerac Kathryn

Lovewasallweneededbuttimeletusdown Lucy LLetby

My life is a joke

Kathryn de Beger Catherine [Chase?] Kathryn

Bergerac Kathryn [^what a joke] de Beger Karen Rees

Karen Rees Karen Rees [^what a joke] Hayley Cooper

I hate my life

I’ve tried my best but I can’t [space] How can life be this way.

Quite. Unhinged. I struggle to understand why she isn't in care.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Quite. Unhinged. I struggle to understand why she isn't in care.

Jmo but we with snapshots can’t say that. All of her colleagues have not really mentioned any doubts about her appearance, work performance, behavior all of which indicate someone of sound mind. doc choc thought she was top notch so no doubt there. Honestly I don’t think she is lacking capacity so that isn’t the problem if there is one.

 

[esther43]

[/QUOTE]

View attachment 416587
If it's this note you're referring to, between the heavy circle and the black blotch, I believe that line says

"lovewasallwe kill myself"

Hi, sorry it's the red and black note and it says 'ITU' not 'ICU'

 

[Marie Bell]

Jmo but we with snapshots can’t say that. All of her colleagues have not really mentioned any doubts about her appearance, work performance, behavior all of which indicate someone of sound mind. doc choc thought she was top notch so no doubt there. Honestly I don’t think she is lacking capacity so that isn’t the problem if there is one.

I agree. I've personally been in a situation at work where I was subject to bullying and dirty tricks involving false accusations and disciplinary proceedings, and grievance proceedings. It wasn't something that I could talk about with anyone else at all, and I lived alone. I wrote all sorts of things down, and then tore them up. A favourite 'release' was to type things out on electronic notes at work and then delete them. It's a form of 'crying out loud' silently. I've no doubt that my jottings would make me look unhinged; and I daresay I was slightly unhinged with it all . At. That. Time.

 

[notsure]

I'm wondering if LL is Tigger. I can imagine that being an affectionate name given to her, perhaps by Dr A, as she tended to bound about from room to room, sometimes inappropriately, it seems.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I agree. I've personally been in a situation at work where I was subject to bullying and dirty tricks involving false accusations and disciplinary proceedings, and grievance proceedings. It wasn't something that I could talk about with anyone else at all, and I lived alone. I wrote all sorts of things down, and then tore them up. A favourite 'release' was to type things out on electronic notes at work and then delete them. It's a form of 'crying out loud' silently. I've no doubt that my jottings would make me look unhinged; and I daresay I was slightly unhinged with it all . At. That. Time.

Tbh the way I see it is write absolutely anything Down if it helps. If you take a positive from it that’s all that matters, do be careful that others don’t see it though. They will call you names etc. Doesn’t take much stress to make someone go a bit loopy, generally work is stressful enough without accusations of a. Baseless nature.

take for instance many popular songs. The lyrics at surface level doesn’t get any negative attention but once you really pay attention it seems absolutely crazy. Example being James blunts “your beautiful“ bet nobody knows it’s a song about someone stalking a past love.

James Blunt finally reveals the creepy real story behind 'You're Beautiful'

James Blunt finally reveals the creepy real story behind 'You're Beautiful', and it's not as romantic as you'd think.

www.smoothradio.com

imagine if a workmate discovered Those lyrics in your desk draw, they would rightfully be. Concerned but without context you have no idea.

you do live in a world in which all you have to do To get ostracised and outcast is be a bit different from the social norm. That is all it. Takes.

 

[crystalline]

Such a case, so many confusing elements to this.

Of course, the notes could be just ramblings on paper - I've not looked at the notes in great detail yet, but I have wondered if the notes may make some sense if they are read as if they are more of a discussion between different people. Like take out the element they are written by one person? (even though they are) Probably way off the mark and of course completely just ideas going around in my own head so all just my own opinion but everything is so confusing in this case.

 

[Sundial]

Tbh the way I see it is write absolutely anything Down if it helps. If you take a positive from it that’s all that matters, do be careful that others don’t see it though. They will call you names etc. Doesn’t take much stress to make someone go a bit loopy, generally work is stressful enough without accusations of a. Baseless nature.

take for instance many popular songs. The lyrics at surface level doesn’t get any negative attention but once you really pay attention it seems absolutely crazy. Example being James blunts “your beautiful“ bet nobody knows it’s a song about someone stalking a past love.

James Blunt finally reveals the creepy real story behind 'You're Beautiful'

James Blunt finally reveals the creepy real story behind 'You're Beautiful', and it's not as romantic as you'd think.

www.smoothradio.com

imagine if a workmate discovered Those lyrics in your desk draw, they would rightfully be. Concerned but without context you have no idea.

you do live in a world in which all you have to do To get ostracised and outcast is be a bit different from the social norm. That is all it. Takes.

Interesting point about the songs tbh. I’ve actually seen maybe a line of two used as status updates (particularly in younger generations who use them) and in isolation it looks worrying. When I’ve asked if that person is ok, they had then laughed, rolled their eyes emoji and said “it’s from a song”.

 

[ColourPurple]

Tbh the way I see it is write absolutely anything Down if it helps. If you take a positive from it that’s all that matters, do be careful that others don’t see it though. They will call you names etc. Doesn’t take much stress to make someone go a bit loopy, generally work is stressful enough without accusations of a. Baseless nature.

take for instance many popular songs. The lyrics at surface level doesn’t get any negative attention but once you really pay attention it seems absolutely crazy. Example being James blunts “your beautiful“ bet nobody knows it’s a song about someone stalking a past love.

James Blunt finally reveals the creepy real story behind 'You're Beautiful'

James Blunt finally reveals the creepy real story behind 'You're Beautiful', and it's not as romantic as you'd think.

www.smoothradio.com

imagine if a workmate discovered Those lyrics in your desk draw, they would rightfully be. Concerned but without context you have no idea.

you do live in a world in which all you have to do To get ostracised and outcast is be a bit different from the social norm. That is all it. Takes.

I agree that writing things down can be cathartic if you're feeling stressed or upset. However, there's been no suggestion by the defence that LL was a budding songwriter so I don't think you can compare her notes (that contained lines like "I killed them on purpose") to a songwriter writing song lyrics.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

Interesting point about the songs tbh. I’ve actually seen maybe a line of two used as status updates (particularly in younger generations who use them) and in isolation it looks worrying. When I’ve asked if that person is ok, they had then laughed, rolled their eyes emoji and said “it’s from a song”.

Besides, the author of a song didn't leave dead bodies in his wake.
Or did he???

 

[Sweeper2000]

Interesting point about the songs tbh. I’ve actually seen maybe a line of two used as status updates (particularly in younger generations who use them) and in isolation it looks worrying. When I’ve asked if that person is ok, they had then laughed, rolled their eyes emoji and said “it’s from a song”.

imagine if someone found the lyrics to “let the bodies hit the floor” in your desk drawer. You’d be in a padded room before you finished the first passage.

it’s an interesting point as well, as people here have noticed the lyrics to the Craig David song in those notes. Is that it do you think? Just creative writing and that’s it? Seems kinda likely to me at this point.

 

[ColourPurple]

Interesting point about the songs tbh. I’ve actually seen maybe a line of two used as status updates (particularly in younger generations who use them) and in isolation it looks worrying. When I’ve asked if that person is ok, they had then laughed, rolled their eyes emoji and said “it’s from a song”.

Most of the notes appear to be her own words, though there is one which includes a line from a Craig David song, although it's the fact that it's a written over and over again that's more worrying. IMO