Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #40

[oviedo]

This has probably been discussed but I can't keep up. The fact that JP appeared to have no plan to keep Jayme, ie prepped room or similar, is incredibly odd. And he knew people would be coming to visit, such as his father.

It seems that he may have never planned on keeping her beyond a day, days, weeks; which is horrifying to think about.

He also said he would shoot at LE if he was stopped. This is pretty close to suicidal. No long term plan there either. Could the most important part of his "fantasy" be to kill people in cold blood? Like a video game.

And I wonder if Jayme somehow switched something in JP that made him unable to take further action. Executing people he never met before would be easier than killing a child that you were with for 88 days. This theory assumes that he had a shred of humanity, which might be a reach.

I guess it could go back to his LE interview where he said that she was the chosen girl he would take when he saw her at the bus (paraphrasing) either he wanted the thrill of the kill and the taking and then murder or all of the above except he planned to keep her? I just don’t know how this kind of mind works JMO I’ve been thinking the latter - a companion

 

[Rhenish]

b

When I heard this 911 call I was confused as to why the operator asked if JC was "running". No one has brought it up, but yet I'm still confused by why she would ask such a question. .

I have to agree that I was perplexed by that question when I listened to the call. Maybe it was just a poor choice of a word used by the operator trying to determine if Jayme had just escaped and was seeking help, opposed to trying to determine if Jayme just appeared calmly seeking assistance. I don't know, clearly Jayme indicated who she was and asked for help immediately upon encountering the dog walker. I too thought it was an odd question, but we also have subsequently learned that the 911 operator immediately knew of the "gravity" of the call and learning Jayme was found and alive probably shocked her as much as much as it shocked all of when the news broke.

 

[KaaBoom]

I am not aware of how to bring over a post from an old thread that has just closed, so I will post the link and what was said, and then put in my response. Hope it's not confusing.

Found Alive - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #39

By Kaboom

"I'm not at all impressed. She was slow as hell. It took 30 minutes to get them there. That is not quickly. She asked all the typical dumb questions that 911 operators ask today.

I'm more impressed with the caller who was a social worker and was coordinating what help was needed. The operator made her justify why medical help was needed. The social worker pointed out that she should be treated for shock and hypothermia . The 911 operator still blew her off and didn't send that help. That is just bad training. At very least paramedics should be sent to check out a victim of a violent crime. That is just common knowledge, which apparently that operator doesn't possess."

............


I disagree, that she was slow as hell. One of the hardest things to do for a nine-one-one operator is to keep them calm and on the phone when they are very upset and the people can't get to them quickly enough. They drove very far away to get there as quickly as they could. She had a lot of people in her ear, and I see nothing lacking and what she did.

I heard that the paramedics were indeed dispatched, but they decided to take her away from the crime scene immediately.

Douglas Co. Officials Explain Why Jayme Closs Response Took So Long

JAN 15, 2019
Douglas Co. Officials Explain Why Jayme Closs Response Took So Long
When local law enforcement got a 911 call that Jayme Closs had been found , multiple Douglas County Sheriff deputies were sent to the scene. However, from the time the call came in to them arriving took 30 minutes.

As for why the response took so long, Douglas County Sheriff Lieutenant Chris Hoyt told WDIO News, the first three responding deputies were working patrol at the time and available for calls.

The first time stamp from their AVL log was at 4:16 p.m.

One deputy was coming from County Hwy E in the Hawthorne Wisconsin area, 28 miles from the Kasinkas home. The responding time took 25 minutes.

Another deputy responded near lake Minnesuing on County Highway P, 29 miles away. His response time also 25 minutes.

The third responding deputy was 45 miles away in Superior. His response time was 29 minutes.

Two other deputies not working patrol assisted, one arriving on scene at 4:42 p.m. and the other at 4:53 p.m.

All were traveling over 100 miles per hour.

That is their spin on it, and their math doesn't add up. As for the operator, she wasn't doing anything to keep them calm. They were keeping themselves calm. The operator even said that.

The operator started the call off as if it was a false report. I doubt that she even dispatched the help, until well into the call.

 

[Mom24]

Cops should be trained to drive fast in all condition. I have seen police chase videos of cops driving over 100 mph on snow and ice in heavy traffic. They can do it, when they want to.

They are trained, but tires are tires and laws of physics and friction still apply, even in Wisconsin for the best trained LE.

 

[Rhenish]

Perhaps she was trying to find out if she was being chased which would have made the situation much more urgent.

This makes sense.

 

[MemPat]

I saw something on social media sensationalizing what Jayme Closs had been through. Found her barely a month ago on the page titled "List of people who disappeared mysteriously post-1970" and she has been in my thoughts. Especially so since she's very young and I know unlike another Person of Interest in that article, she wouldn't have run away.

Anyways, I was inclined to come over here to see if any of it was true. The article shared a few posts back doesn't exactly sensationalize it, and it really irritates me that there's already presumptions that she experienced horros on the same levels as Elizabeth Smart or Jaycee Dugard.

I'm glad she was found and I do not think the law enforcement did anything wrong. As a few more recent posts have said, there were ice on the road, it's dark out, densly populated neighborhood, numerous intersections, winding roads all come together to add at least ten minutes of travel time. Even if you do go the speed limit or higher.

Wow, I hope I'm misunderstanding that you minimize what Jayme has gone through. Both her father and mother had their heads blown off (her mother's right in front of her in a tiny bathroom), she was taped up, thrown into a cold, dark trunk for two hours, then stuffed under a bed for 88 days....at 13 years old! She didn't know if she would ever get away. What could really be worse?

 

[Ibiz]

Perhaps she was trying to find out if she was being chased which would have made the situation much more urgent.

That's very possible... I will have to hear it again. It was right at the beginning of the call... where the lady said something like: "we have missing girl Jayme Closs here," and the operator said something to the effect of "is she trying to run?" I do think the operator may have just been in shock, and reality hadn't set in.

 

[ab01]

Why anybody would question if LE got to jc as fast as they could is beyond me. Of course they did!

 

[Mom24]

I guess it could go back to his LE interview where he said that she was the chosen girl he would take when he saw her at the bus (paraphrasing) either he wanted the thrill of the kill and the taking and then murder or all of the above except he planned to keep her? I just don’t know how this kind of mind works JMO I’ve been thinking the latter - a companion

The way he kept her reminds me of how a child will keep a stray cat hidden in their room. It's odd that he had no preparations for her, when he goes on and on about how he thought and prepared for the abduction, even down to removing the dome light in his car and taking a shower before he left.

 

[mtnlites]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

There are other ways of abusing and terrorizing a person beyond physically striking them. Even if she was "only hit once", she'd just seen her parents' heads blown off by the very man who had abducted her. In addition, we don't know everything that happened. Very little about her imprisonment by JP has been released.

<modsnip>

 

[Auntie Cipation]

When I heard this 911 call I was confused as to why the operator asked if JC was "running". No one has brought it up, but yet I'm still confused by why she would ask such a question. .

IMO, the 911 dispatcher had no idea of Jayme's state of mind, whether she was panicking and trying to keep running to get farther away, etc. Or as someone above me just mentioned, maybe she was in active fear of JP showing up there. In hindsight knowing the loop nature of the neighborhood and how far from "town" they were, we wouldn't expect JC to try to run away from her helpers, but the dispatcher did not have that context, even with being told the address. I'd also guess that past people escaping from kidnappers have sometimes run from their rescuers, perhaps not knowing who to trust, and thus the dispatcher asked because it's policy to do so.

 

[1&2&3]

Do they still make chains for tires to use on ice? Grew up in the north, had snow tires from November to April, but also had chains for ice. We lived on top of a mountain and I never walked it, those chains were wonderful!

Why would LE not use them in rural WI to be able to get to the far out places? If it was rural, there probably wasn’t such a thing as road service to clear the roads. Any ideas?

 

[pepper 34]

A lot of cars past midnight?

No, they are talking about the response of LE to the 911 call when they were called to the town of Gordon after Jayme had escaped. I thought the response was professional and prompt with the safety of all involved taken well into consideration. JMO.

 

[mtnlites]

Do they still make chains for tires to use on ice? Grew up in the north, had snow tires from November to April, but also had chains for ice. We lived on top of a mountain and I never walked it, those chains were wonderful!

Why would LE not use them in rural WI to be able to get to the far out places? If it was rural, there probably wasn’t such a thing as road service to clear the roads. Any ideas?

We have chains on our SUV. They still make them. Even with them on, though, speed can be an issue and dangerous.

 

[Jessthinkin]

I'm not at all impressed. She was slow as hell. It took 30 minutes to get them there. That is not quickly. She asked all the typical dumb questions that 911 operators ask today.

I'm more impressed with the caller who was a social worker and was coordinating what help was needed. The operator made her justify why medical help was needed. The social worker pointed out that she should be treated for shock and hypothermia . The 911 operator still blew her off and didn't send that help. That is just bad training. At very least paramedics should be sent to check out a victim of a violent crime. That is just common knowledge.

IIRC, medical help was sent.... the police set up a perimeter until they could secure JP, and the ambulance was beyond that perimeter until it could be let in...

 

[kkdj]

I think LE more than likely was looking for the maroon Taurus, which there are lots of them. I guess they just didn't feel they had enough of a description to give to us to look for it. However, could they have asked the maroon car that yielded that night on hwy 8 at approx. 1:00 a.m. to please contact LE, in case they had seen something?

 

[KaaBoom]

No one is ever trained to drive on ice. You might be trained on how to respond to ice, and drive on snow, but ice is not something you learn to drive on.

Actually they do receive training for that.

VIDEO: Volvo driving school teaches police how to handle ice

 

[Mom24]

Do they still make chains for tires to use on ice? Grew up in the north, had snow tires from November to April, but also had chains for ice. We lived on top of a mountain and I never walked it, those chains were wonderful!

Why would LE not use them in rural WI to be able to get to the far out places? If it was rural, there probably wasn’t such a thing as road service to clear the roads. Any ideas?

Depends on what they allow or vote in for budget purposes. Not all dept's have the resources financially for chains, and if there's water on the ice (a little melting) the chains will help, but you'll still slip.

 

[SeekingJana]

There seems to be a misunderstanding regarding what taxidermy is or is not.
A 12 year old who gutted various dead and decaying animals called " roadkill" is experimenting and playing with pathogen-ridden refuse for the shock value, as seen by his efforts being used to scare his little girlfriend at the time.

Professional taxidermy is likely either very familiar or at least somewhat familiar to ALL of us and there is a clear cut distinction between a professionally mounted deer head, or a pheasant poised with wire as if in flight with no residual tissue or bacteria, from what a 12 year old could and would do at home.

We have friends who have what they consider to be very valuable and possibly sentimental, IDK, professionally mounted deer heads, steer heads ( it's Texas and the steer was a prized and loved steer, usually) and I know they spend thousands of dollars to get clean, non-deteriorating lifelike work done by an adult who has special skills and training to be a taxidermist. We often eat at a landmark Texas restaurant which has famous prize winning steer head mounts in almost every space on their walls, and according to my husband who ate at the same restaurant 35 years ago, they are not new mounts but are the same apparently very special steers who have graced the walls for many years.

IMO, it is not a valid argument to favorably or equitably compare
what has been said about a boy's likely dismemberment, removing all internal organs and tissues, skinning, and stuffing some really weird old dead thing in the backyard or basement with actual taxidermy specimens of normal to exceptional quality using freshly dead and properly frozen or otherwise preserved animals for professional work.

JP had issues which began when he was a child, IMO, according to what we have just started finding out. If he didn't think his " animal work" was creepy, why would he throw a dog's head on his girlfriend? Answer- He knew it was weird and creepy and that's WHY he did it. He wanted to provoke her into a startled reaction, and she threw him out. He retaliated with a criminal act of destruction- JP slashed the tires of one of the family's cars.

<modsnip>

 

[JaneEyre]

Do they still make chains for tires to use on ice? Grew up in the north, had snow tires from November to April, but also had chains for ice. We lived on top of a mountain and I never walked it, those chains were wonderful!

Why would LE not use them in rural WI to be able to get to the far out places? If it was rural, there probably wasn’t such a thing as road service to clear the roads. Any ideas?

In general, chains are not good for high speed driving like LE has to do. They may have a couple of rescue SUVs kitted out with them for specific situations, but not every patrol car.