Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #35

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Taskforce88

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ADMIN NOTE:

This thread is dedicated to discussion of CB as the suspect in Madeleine's case.

The thread is NOT for rehashing anything to do with the McCanns who were formally cleared.

Members who persist in bringing up the suggestion or possibility of the McCanns being responsibile for their daughter's disappearance will have posts removed and may face a temporary or permanent loss of posting privileges.
 
ADMIN NOTE:

This thread is about Christian Bueckner as the suspect in Madeleine's disappearance.

Dogs and the McCanns are off topic in this discussion.

Also, stop the snark and bickering in this thread.

Thank you.
 
Thinking back to CB's comments about being able to make a body "disappear" quickly:

Barmaid Lenta Johlitz, 34, revealed: “Once he was completely freaked out when we were sitting talking with friends about the Madeleine case.

“He wanted us to stop. He cried out, ‘The child is dead now and that’s a good thing’, then he said: ‘You can make a body disappear quickly. Pigs also eat human flesh’.”



Given how forensically astute CB was, it seems logical that in the event of trying to "disappear" a body he would take certain measures to eradicate the possibility of the body being later discovered and forensically tested.

He mentions pigs in the above account but for that you'd need private access to pigs, and confidence that all the body got cosumed, and that the undigested parts don't get discovered once passed. Acid is another option but again, that's not easy to get hold of. The most practical option is to burn the body to destroy (almost) all forensic traces and then scatter the bone fragments over an area or into water. This is what police suspect Mark Bridger did to April Jones, they found some remnant bone fragments in the fireplace but they believe he probably took the bulk of them and scattered them somewhere familiar to him.

Unless you have furnace conditions (like in a crematorium), it's impossible to reduce a body down to ash, the bones and teeth will eventually break down into fragments but even in a fire kept going for a whole day, you'd still be left with chunks. The main advantage is destroying the DNA and being able to easily dispose of the remnants in manageable sizes such that they become almost impossible to find unless you knew exactly where to look.

Portuguese, German and UK news outlets are all now reporting that they are taking various soil samples away for analysis. Often, soil samples are used to tie a suspect to a location but I struggle to see what use that would be here since there already appears to be other proof that CB frequented this location. Another option would be to tie the sample to something connected to the victim, but again that seems unlikely here since they don't appear to have anything connected to the victim.

So I am wondering if the soil samples are indeed looking for forensic traces using dogs to mark spots of interest and it is perhaps based on the above hypothesis. That they have intel to indicate CB has perhaps cremated the body and scattered the remanants at his remote "little paradise".
 
The tip-off may be very reliable, but the search procedure ending in nothing.
In terms of the British side with reduced funding according to the Sun article I posted a page or two back it must just be a watching brief ,£110,000 what's that a DCI or a couple of DC's.

In terms of the Germans, a tip off led them to CB, six yrs on despite what Wolters says about concrete evidence and charges there's obviously not enough that he's confident with to indict CB.

The tip off now about the area may well tie in with possible photographic evidence, of course it needs checking but 16 yrs after the event some one has an epiphany and decided to tell the police? If there's nothing of substance where next ?

We'll know one supposes in the fullness of time.
 
In terms of the British side with reduced funding according to the Sun article I posted a page or two back it must just be a watching brief ,£110,000 what's that a DCI or a couple of DC's.

RSBM

In terms of how costs are budgeted - it's not just a salary but all the on costs related to that support so my guess is the dedicated Met support is down to one person. Likely its a liaison role.
 
Trawling over the various media reports it seems at least in some cases the 'source' is actually the 'underworld figure' who is now being reported as a former friend/associate and the media have perhaps spoke directly with that person

Obviously all highly unreliable/speculative but does suggest the rather grand sounding 'underworld figure' is simply one of the crooks CB used to run with - and perhaps the person speculated upthread.

This would also lead you to wonder whether he was the person who tipped off the lawyer back in the day?

if it is indeed who we think, i find it hard to believe he is only just now giving the police the extra info.

Would not be surprised if the official briefed story of the 'tip' is concealing much more detailed police work,
 
Trawling over the various media reports it seems at least in some cases the 'source' is actually the 'underworld figure' who is now being reported as a former friend/associate and the media have perhaps spoke directly with that person

Obviously all highly unreliable/speculative but does suggest the rather grand sounding 'underworld figure' is simply one of the crooks CB used to run with - and perhaps the person speculated upthread.

This would also lead you to wonder whether he was the person who tipped off the lawyer back in the day?

if it is indeed who we think, i find it hard to believe he is only just now giving the police the extra info.
Let's suppose something is uncovered, a couple of options, it links to CB, or it links to the informer, either both are culpable or its the informer.
 
Just noticed The Mail are also running with the claim the search could be related to other victims, citing The Times as their source.


Madeleine McCann cops 'hope to find evidence of OTHER potential victims targeted by suspect Christian Brueckner', as well as clues about the missing British girl, as search at Algarve reservoir enters final day

Investigators searching for Madeleine McCann at a remote reservoir in Portugal are hoping to find evidence of other potential victims targeted by the prime suspect in the case as well as clues about the missing girl, it has been claimed.

Christian Brueckner, 45, visited the Barragem do Arade reservoir, possibly with others, 'some days' after Madeleine was snatched from her bed in 2007, the suspect's former friend told police.

The source also claimed that investigators also believe Madeleine could have been alive for two or three days after she disappeared from the holiday resort of Praia da Luz, reports The Times.




Search teams have been given maps showing detailed locations to excavate based on the information from the former friend.

He told German police that Brueckner, 45, visited the site — possibly with other people — “some days” after Madeleine’s disappearance, according to a source with knowledge of the investigation. The source added that investigators believe Madeleine could have been alive for two or three days after she vanished.

German and Portuguese police are playing the main role in the searches, with Scotland Yard officers present on a “watching brief”. German police hope to find evidence of other potential victims believed to have been targeted by Brueckner on the Algarve.

 
Anybody knows if there are/was more searches today?
 
if it is indeed who we think, i find it hard to believe he is only just now giving the police the extra info.
It's possible they've known for a while but didn't want to make this move prematurely? Or perhaps the former friend has been interrogated more recently and has given up further knowledge he didn't want to admit to previously since it would leave him open to some charge as well? Maybe new info gave police reason to suspect he wasn't being 100% truthful with them previously and they've pressed him? All options. JMO.
 
It's possible they've known for a while but didn't want to make this move prematurely? Or perhaps the former friend has been interrogated more recently and has given up further knowledge he didn't want to admit to previously since it would leave him open to some charge as well? Maybe new info gave police reason to suspect he wasn't being 100% truthful with them previously and they've pressed him? All options. JMO.
He can't be giving Intel /location etc only known to CB.
 
It's possible they've known for a while but didn't want to make this move prematurely? Or perhaps the former friend has been interrogated more recently and has given up further knowledge he didn't want to admit to previously since it would leave him open to some charge as well? Maybe new info gave police reason to suspect he wasn't being 100% truthful with them previously and they've pressed him? All options. JMO.

I take it to mean they are just fobbing the media off with a cover story and they won't be giving any meaningful details.

Why would they.

ETA

What i do find interesting is that someone already gave this tip before, which seems highly coincidental - so a chance it is the same person?

Were they with CB? How would they know he was there? Or is that from photo EXIF?
 
He can't be giving Intel /location etc only known to CB.
Were they with CB? How would they know he was there? Or is that from photo EXIF?
Possibly. I'm wondering more whether the former friend has pinpointed the spots where CB was known to have parked up his van. They could then be looking for areas where they think a fire may have been set up... maybe? Or perhaps CB told the friend details of what he did with the body? I don't know, we're all just speculating at the end of the day based on various sources of info, some of which I'm sure aren't totally accurate.
 
Thinking back to CB's comments about being able to make a body "disappear" quickly:

Barmaid Lenta Johlitz, 34, revealed: “Once he was completely freaked out when we were sitting talking with friends about the Madeleine case.

“He wanted us to stop. He cried out, ‘The child is dead now and that’s a good thing’, then he said: ‘You can make a body disappear quickly. Pigs also eat human flesh’.”



Given how forensically astute CB was, it seems logical that in the event of trying to "disappear" a body he would take certain measures to eradicate the possibility of the body being later discovered and forensically tested.

He mentions pigs in the above account but for that you'd need private access to pigs, and confidence that all the body got cosumed, and that the undigested parts don't get discovered once passed. Acid is another option but again, that's not easy to get hold of. The most practical option is to burn the body to destroy (almost) all forensic traces and then scatter the bone fragments over an area or into water. This is what police suspect Mark Bridger did to April Jones, they found some remnant bone fragments in the fireplace but they believe he probably took the bulk of them and scattered them somewhere familiar to him.

Unless you have furnace conditions (like in a crematorium), it's impossible to reduce a body down to ash, the bones and teeth will eventually break down into fragments but even in a fire kept going for a whole day, you'd still be left with chunks. The main advantage is destroying the DNA and being able to easily dispose of the remnants in manageable sizes such that they become almost impossible to find unless you knew exactly where to look.

Portuguese, German and UK news outlets are all now reporting that they are taking various soil samples away for analysis. Often, soil samples are used to tie a suspect to a location but I struggle to see what use that would be here since there already appears to be other proof that CB frequented this location. Another option would be to tie the sample to something connected to the victim, but again that seems unlikely here since they don't appear to have anything connected to the victim.

So I am wondering if the soil samples are indeed looking for forensic traces using dogs to mark spots of interest and it is perhaps based on the above hypothesis. That they have intel to indicate CB has perhaps cremated the body and scattered the remanants at his remote "little paradise".
It's all down to motive and if it was premeditated (and, of course presuming it was CB).

Firstly, yes in the CB and DM cases, he did seem to take precautions against leaving forensic evidence. Then, several years later, when he molested his partner's daughter, he kept the photos on his own camera - not very astute.

If he planned to abduct, abuse and kill MM, then, using one of your options, he could have bought a container and acid from a pool shop (there would be many in the Algarve) and disposed of the body and pyjamas without a trace.

Why would he go to the trouble of burning her body? Risky too, people are attracted to fires in public places - especially in tourist places.

It would seem more efficient to dispose of the body by putting it into a bag and throwing it into the lake. This could be done in 5-10 minutes. And, that's the info MC, the lawyer, received from his informant.
 
I take it to mean they are just fobbing the media off with a cover story and they won't be giving any meaningful details.

Why would they.
I wouldn't put it like that. There's been no official confirmation of what the searches are based on from HCW. All the claims about an informant, a former friend, pictures, "recently received" intel, other victims etc etc have all come via unofficial sources as far as I can tell. Sources "close" to the investigation and such.

We've been here a thousand times before with this case . "Facts" often get garbled as they pass through a chain of chinese whispers or people making assumptions/speculations. The truth is we don't really know why they are searching there or what it is based upon. JMO.
 
I take it to mean they are just fobbing the media off with a cover story and they won't be giving any meaningful details.

Why would they.

ETA

What i do find interesting is that someone already gave this tip before, which seems highly coincidental - so a chance it is the same person?

Were they with CB? How would they know he was there? Or is that from photo EXIF?
The informant this time around has been reported as someone known to the investigators and German. Could be that MC's tip came from a German but it's been reported as Portuguese criminal.

It seems hard to understand the photo evidence of him at the lake, surely they must have had it for a while. I still think that the picture of CB giving the three-finger salute that was published in Der Speigel (then hastily removed) was on or around 3 May 2007. Could be EXIF.

I wonder if he took LE to the Arade that week? Perhaps she could have provided some info.
 
I wouldn't put it like that. There's been no official confirmation of what the searches are based on from HCW. All the claims about an informant, a former friend, pictures, "recently received" intel, other victims etc etc have all come via unofficial sources as far as I can tell. Sources "close" to the investigation and such.

We've been here a thousand times before with this case . "Facts" often get garbled as they pass through a chain of chinese whispers or people making assumptions/speculations. The truth is we don't really know why they are searching there or what it is based upon. JMO.

Agreed.
 
The informant this time around has been reported as someone known to the investigators and German. Could be that MC's tip came from a German but it's been reported as Portuguese criminal.

It seems hard to understand the photo evidence of him at the lake, surely they must have had it for a while. I still think that the picture of CB giving the three-finger salute that was published in Der Speigel (then hastily removed) was on or around 3 May 2007. Could be EXIF.

I wonder if he took LE to the Arade that week? Perhaps she could have provided some info.

Anythings possible I guess.

I do wonder if this info was given through the lawyer the first time and thus not taken seriously, but now given direct
 
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