Poll- Was the bag the Meter Reader saw in August the same bag he found in December?

[scandi]

*rumor* I did hear somewhere, can't recall where and therefore won't use it as fact, that the people who live on that corner (with the odd lot and long fence) DID notice an odor in August, but thought it was a dead animal.

Hi Clock's Tickin, I'm thinking the people living on that corner thought they might have smelled an odour in hindsight if one looks at the laws of decomposition.

Dr Perper on NG last week was asked how long it would have taken for a bad odour to come from the bag. He said 2 to 3 days. That is right on target with what you will find written about decomp.

Then, an average body will begin to flatten out by the 20th day after death. That means gasses and fluids are escaping from the body. That is 3 weeks. And the smell at that point is 'cheesy' and not the foul original one.

And after 50 days from death the average body enters the last stage, or dry decay.

If Caylee died on say, June 15th, by August 4th that last stage would have been ongoing. We have read decomp would be faster in Florida due to the weather. Who knows how good the barrier was with a bag within a bag and taped shut was to keep critters at bay. Evidently not that good, as all the little bones were picked up by water and washed out in a line from the bag. I think thru a hole in the bag from some curious possum or squirrel!

Bottom line IMO is by August 11th there would be virtually no odour coming from the bag. If the neighbors said they noticed this smell from mid June to July 5th I would believe it was from that bag. By July 5th I think the odour was almost nothing.

 

[pirate]

This does make sense and can you imagine how badly it would have smelled in the Fl August heat. Lots of other people had to have smelled it too.

I guess this whole case backs up FBI's long time theory that killers work within their comfort zone.

A forensic expert said that the decomp would have occurred in about two weeks leaving the remains skeletonized.

Therefore, the smell would have been in the area before anyone knew Caylee was missing.

 

[pirate]

*rumor* I did hear somewhere, can't recall where and therefore won't use it as fact, that the people who live on that corner (with the odd lot and long fence) DID notice an odor in August, but thought it was a dead animal.

I heard the same.

 

[PaulaF513]

A forensic expert said that the decomp would have occurred in about two weeks leaving the remains skeletonized.

Therefore, the smell would have been in the area before anyone knew Caylee was missing.

Exactly

 

[nostoneunturned]

I just wonder if MMan was up a pole when he saw a white car, looking mush like the car usually parked at the A's. He could have seen her slow down, stop, open her trunk and carry the bundle in her arms in a bag into the woods. She never saw him. He heard about the case. He wanted Caylee found but didn't want to get involved.
He was back in that area, and said something to the fact,like he was tired of hearing it talked all the time and stopped to take a nature walk.
He has yet to tell "the rest of the story". I believe this to be the same bag(I don't believe they have released the pictures of the real bag) he saw because he said it was the same bag

He kicked the bag just before reporting the story, he would have said. "Wow I saw a bag here in August but that one was white and this is not the same bag because this one if black."

 

[Crafti]

I just wonder if MMan was up a pole when he saw a white car, looking mush like the car usually parked at the A's. He could have seen her slow down, stop, open her trunk and carry the bundle in her arms in a bag into the woods. She never saw him. He heard about the case. He wanted Caylee found but didn't want to get involved.
He was back in that area, and said something to the fact,like he was tired of hearing it talked all the time and stopped to take a nature walk.
He has yet to tell "the rest of the story". I believe this to be the same bag(I don't believe they have released the pictures of the real bag) he saw because he said it was the same bag

He kicked the bag just before reporting the story, he would have said. "Wow I saw a bag here in August but that one was white and this is not the same bag because this one if black."

I doubt that he observed her from being up a pole or I think he would have mentioned that in his first call. Also it appears that his route falls around the 10th of the month and to have seen her dispose of her that would mean that she did so on Jun 10-13 (ruled out) or July 10-13 (ruled out). Also, I don't think meter readers climb poles - that would probably be another department with the utility company - I can't even remember what type of utility company it was.

I do think there's a little bit more to his story, but probably not much. It makes enough sense to me now. I just don't understand why LE didn't find her.

 

[Macushla]

I find it interesting that the poll results are so evenly distributed. This one really has us wondering doesn't it? I was talking to someone about this case last night and something she said made me wonder about how people are 'seeing' the trash bag, as it were. My friend couldn't understand how anyone could miss a trash bag even off the side of the road. I asked her to describe to me what she thought it looked like. She said it would look like most trash bags that are put out for collection. What she meant, if I can say this so it makes sense - is that bag would be 'sitting up' so to speak with the tied end on top. It made me wonder if that is how most people 'visualize' the tossed trash bag? In reality, the bag was probably in more of a horizontal position. I am going to try and not get too graphic here - the bag, if in a horizontal position with the tied end to the side, would not be more than 6 to 8 inches high - and probably would flatten out even more as time went on. This would make it much harder to see. I am wondering if how people 'see the bag' in their minds is why so many are saying it should have been found earlier. Anyone agree or disagree?

 

[pirate]

I visualize it the same way you do, Mach- long and wrapped versus tied at the top.


Once we hear from the MR maybe we'll know if what he saw in August was the same thing he found in December.

 

[PaulaF513]

I just wonder if MMan was up a pole when he saw a white car, looking mush like the car usually parked at the A's. He could have seen her slow down, stop, open her trunk and carry the bundle in her arms in a bag into the woods. She never saw him. He heard about the case. He wanted Caylee found but didn't want to get involved.
He was back in that area, and said something to the fact,like he was tired of hearing it talked all the time and stopped to take a nature walk.
He has yet to tell "the rest of the story". I believe this to be the same bag(I don't believe they have released the pictures of the real bag) he saw because he said it was the same bag

He kicked the bag just before reporting the story, he would have said. "Wow I saw a bag here in August but that one was white and this is not the same bag because this one if black."

I thought he is a water meter reader

 

[sandcastles4me]

It all seems to coincidental to me. I just can't get past the PI's out there in November. This case gets me more puzzled every week.

 

[flnana]

I find it interesting that the poll results are so evenly distributed. This one really has us wondering doesn't it? I was talking to someone about this case last night and something she said made me wonder about how people are 'seeing' the trash bag, as it were. My friend couldn't understand how anyone could miss a trash bag even off the side of the road. I asked her to describe to me what she thought it looked like. She said it would look like most trash bags that are put out for collection. What she meant, if I can say this so it makes sense - is that bag would be 'sitting up' so to speak with the tied end on top. It made me wonder if that is how most people 'visualize' the tossed trash bag? In reality, the bag was probably in more of a horizontal position. I am going to try and not get too graphic here - the bag, if in a horizontal position with the tied end to the side, would not be more than 6 to 8 inches high - and probably would flatten out even more as time went on. This would make it much harder to see. I am wondering if how people 'see the bag' in their minds is why so many are saying it should have been found earlier. Anyone agree or disagree?

If that is a flood prone area, the soil is probably always moist, with rotting leaves and wood. If the bag was black and had wet leaves on top it would sort of blend in with the tree roots, leaves, etc. After the storms, it would have been flattened and covered with wet residue. As tiny as the bones would have been, the bag would be almost flat I would think, making it hard to see.

 

[pirate]

If that is a flood prone area, the soil is probably always moist, with rotting leaves and wood. If the bag was black and had wet leaves on top it would sort of blend in with the tree roots, leaves, etc. After the storms, it would have been flattened and covered with wet residue. As tiny as the bones would have been, the bag would be almost flat I would think, making it hard to see.

Even before the storms, the fast growing vegetation would have obscured the view of this bag and practically covered it completely.

Once those plants went dormant- when cold snaps began, either late Oct/Early november, the leaves would have started shriveling a bit and made the bag easier to find.

Had the MR visited the area in the summer, he never would have found that bag in that spot.

 

[elfie]

Even before the storms, the fast growing vegetation would have obscured the view of this bag and practically covered it completely.

Once those plants went dormant- when cold snaps began, either late Oct/Early november, the leaves would have started shriveling a bit and made the bag easier to find.

Had the MR visited the area in the summer, he never would have found that bag in that spot.

After seeing the video (GSJ) of the foliage and dense underbrush in August I have to agree with you.

 

[pirate]

I have woods just like that across the street from my house- and I live in a golf course community, not in the country.

When kids lose balls in the woods, they are impossible (and dangerous) to find in the summer. But when the vines start to die off and you can see where you're stepping the kids will sometimes venture in to find their lost treasures.

 

[elfie]

I can't imagine the gear it would take in order to prevent snake bites yet be cool enough not to pass out.

 

[kgeaux]

Is this the report after the fact? After the response? Because in that case it could mean all that was found was a gray bag and it was not of importance.

I'll be darned if I'm going to go back and read all that stuff again, but I believe one of the stories said an officer responded but nothing was found but trash. I'm thinking that was after the third call, though.

BTW, I guess why I'm so adamant about this is if these news organizations are posting edited tapes, they ought to report them as such. That's extremely sloppy reporting. If the police are providing edited tapes, they should report that as well.

I would think the report is being typed up as the information is given. The dispatcher pulls up a computer screen, types in what she/he is being told, passes the information along, and later it appears they have the ability to add in the resolution of the problem.

At this point in time, I don't think we've been privy to the resolution of the third call, as the sheriff's department was actively investigating what the deputy's response was.

News organizations are, have always been, and will probably always be sloppy. (Just my opinion!) They are more concerned with sensationalism than accuracy.
I understand your frustration, but if you read the reports while listening to the tapes, you'll see that the reports have additional information that we don't hear with our ears. Particularly in the 2nd call, you can HEAR a phrase being blanked out. But we can't know what MR said that was removed. It IS frustrating.

I was appalled at the ignorance of the dispatcher in those calls. The dispatcher should have spelt the street names back to the MM, and known the name of the elementary school without trying to pull up a map. I got the impression she did not even recognise the name Anthony, and the relevance to the calls.

I'm going to assume the dispatcher is in the Orlando area, because MR states he dialed the Non-Emergency line and sounds distraut that he is being answered by emergency response. If she is in the Orlando area, the response DOES seem a tad scant, doesn't it. Orlando is very large, and I can understand her not knowing the name of one little elementary school, but it does seem as though it should have appeared on the map she was "pulling up." Perhaps their system is hopelessly outdated, like most of USA.

In addition to not spelling street names, she is TOLD the guy has a gps unit and doesn't ask for the gps coordinates!! (unless that is blacked out info, in which case, my sincere apologies to the dispatcher!)

 

[kgeaux]

Shortly after the discovery, Leonard P. described the find on Nancy G. He said that the remains were in a white trash sack and then enclosed in a black trash sack. I think a lot of sleuths were out Christmas shopping. I do not believe he would have offered this v. clear and definite description unless he knew those facts. The bags and the contents will be detailed before too long.

Leonard has said so many things, I can't keep track. Have you read the reports of what he is saying today????!!!

Apparently, Mr. Padilla is saying the Anthony's PI called him in August and told him he knew where Caylee was, told him Caylee was dead. And I guess that explains why Leonard was so sure Caylee was in the park. Oh, wait. The PI didn't say he was at the park; he reported that he was in the woods! Oh, well, not to worry, it makes sense to Leonard!

Tuba, you are a genious for remembering this! That is EXACTLY what I see in this photo - the officer is holding up the white trash bag and there is something black underneath. So sad.....and I would give anything to be on the prosecution's team to get whoever murdered this little girl prosecuted! God, I went into the wrong profession!!! :furious::furious::furious:

I do think the photo shows the detective holding a bag, which appears to be light on the inside and dark on the outside. I don't think it's the body bag, but he's holding something! Does LE have "wet evidence" bags that are similar?

I wonder if the "gry" bag could mean grocery bag as in white grocery bag, round because it contained the skull? I think white bag enclosed in a black bag makes most sense because the meter reader does say that what he found is the same thing he saw back in August.

I see what you are saying, but the meter reader never says he sees two bags. Report #1, gry bag Report #2, bag, when Caylee was found, Black bag.

Is there a photo that actually shows the black bag she was in?

No. Thank God she wasn't found by the guy that described himself as a media *advertiser censored*! Because media was able to get up close and personal to the 'evidence' found in the lake, but LE made sure media wasn't involved in THEIR search.

 

[Gaia713]

As I recall, it was stated to be a grey or white bag in August and it was said (and shown in the pictures) to be a black bag.

How would you explain that it went from white or grey to black beetween August and December? I can reasonably assume the opposite, it would lighten from exposure. But I cannot understand how anybody can believe it would darken from white to black.

I Don't th9ik it would change color THAT much. Look at landfill. Black bags do not turn white. Not to mention that white bags are much smaller - it would be difficult to place a body Caylee's size in a 13 gallon white bag (and 13 gallon is the largest WHITE bags I have ever seen).

 

[pirate]

I Don't th9ik it would change color THAT much. Look at landfill. Black bags do not turn white. Not to mention that white bags are much smaller - it would be difficult to place a body Caylee's size in a 13 gallon white bag (and 13 gallon is the largest WHITE bags I have ever seen).

Bolded by me- and so simple and so right! I can't believe nobody has thought of that before now?

 

[nostoneunturned]

Yea, finana, I think you are right,it would have been lying down, maybe covered with leaves. I wish the results would be released from the tape that was on the bag and the other evidence.If Le doesn't soon say something it will seem as if there wasn't anything left on there.It seems to me the A's have started to squirm ever since the body was found.
from lkl to recluse ..
when is mm suposed to tell "his story"?
MM was in the area before the Aug.calls. He could have saw something,while sitting,climbing a pole,(if he even climbs) I am just saying maybe he saw something while doing his job back in june-july ,heard all the news and connected the dots.
Did he make a statement about being tired of hearing all of his co-workers talking about the case??? I can't remember where I heard that but when I heard that I got the idea that he knew the bag was Caaylee and didn't want to get involved but after NOONE finding it he couldn't take it any more and jumped into the spotlight.