GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #62

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Shannon Watts (strangled) & daughters Bella & CeCe (smothered)by Chris Watts. Watts pleads guilty and gets life without parole!


PLEASE CLICK HERE FOR NEW RULES!!!!!!!!!!

Sad news ...

husband of the missing Frederick family has confessed to killing them and officials believe they know where the bodies are.

Husband of missing Frederick mom of 2 detained Sources: Husband of pregnant Frederick woman detained, has confessed to killing her and 2 daughters


CO - MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINES - NO DISCUSSION - - Shanann Watts (34, dec.), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4

Link to WS post with 3 videos of CW's interviews

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I have just been putting together this list of 'potential' difficulties that CW 'may' have faced in childhood. This information is gleened from the information we have discussed so far. Please feel free to correct any information that maybe incorrect or add your own opinion/findings etc. Obviously we do not know these things definitively happened to CW, so they are suggestions of his potential upbringing (rather than fact).


Family enmeshment:

Signs we know of:
Mother over-involvement in CW life and relationship with SW.

Mother disrespects and undermines others beliefs/parenting techniques and boundaries (eg nut incident, comments about SW as a mother)

Power games with them both (e.g. wedding planning, not attending wedding or children's parties, nut incident),

Their identity as a family may be built upon their children’s success. Eg their talk on his past achievements (eg sports, nascar).

Threatened when CW married and moved across the country (eg CW responsible for dads increase in drinking, their comments about SW)

CW may have taken on a caretaker role towards RW’s drinking

Family dynamics look like they were built on power and submission, rather than equality and respect.


Effects of enmeshment on an adult: A failure to adequately develop an individual sense of identity and self-esteem, A difficulty regulating one’s own emotions, feeling controlled by others causing them to emotionally withdraw, negatively affect on relationships, difficulty developing appropriate and balanced friendships and difficulties with trust outside immediate family, fear of intimacy as relationships seen as emotionally draining, may seek out relationships in which they are responsible for caring for a partner, repeating what was learned in childhood.


Fathers substance abuse issues:
The nature of substance abuse can reduce a child's experience with making friends, so later they may have difficulty with intimate relationships. CW does have issues in these areas

Addiction tendencies may be familial -both socially modelled and possible genetic trait?

Impact of growing up with this: overlaps with enmeshment traits, particularly around loss of identity, feelings of responsibility, used to playing the role of the caregiver, may have an excessive need to be in control in order to balance out the chaos in their lives. Or they may constantly need approval, to reassure themselves that they have value. Some become aggressive.


Attachment
Mrs Watts described as cold and overbearing. Although its reported he has a close relationship with his dad, he will still be impacted by his relationship with his mother. There are numerous issues that arise from having an in-secure attachment.


Social modelling
His family have socially modeled the following:

Women are domineering.

Men avoid to cope, rather than confront (eg Dad used substances as a form of escape most likely).

Unkind behaviour towards others

No respect for personal boundaries



Social and emotional development

Guaranteed CW grew up in an invalidating environment.

Emotions likely to not be acknowledged let alone expressed, which is a huge issue as this causes someone to lack emotional awareness and stunts development.

Love and kindness probably 'rewarded' only when doing something right. Therefore, love becomes associated with doing what someone else wants, not inherently given. This will be linked to wanting to be seen as ‘good’.

Socially he had few friends and lacked a dating history. The question remains why was that? Lack of interest, fear of parental opinion? Etc. This isn’t always an issue, however in this case it is suggests why he was so excited by the prospect of the affair he was having and the thrill he was getting from this.

Supposedly his sister was 'naughty'. This may be a sign of issues at home (although cannot definitely say this). However, children take up roles in a family. CW has taken up the 'good' boy role, which would be a partial contributor to why he wants to save face and be seen as ‘good’


Empathy

Others say he was kind and caring

Seems empathic towards NK. Why? (Concerned about her being dragged in to the case).

Important to differentiate between empathy and sympathy. Psychopaths and sociopaths use empathy (not sympathy) to learn about a person and use this in a self-fulfilling manner (eg for their own purpose).

Psychopath vs sociopath – no criminal history that we are aware, indicates CW is not a psychopath, but rather a sociopath.



** There is obviously a lot more that can be added to this””
 
Did Chris and Ronnie discuss what happened on the ride from the airport?
Discovery pg 605 (pg 538)
Chris asked to speak with his dad, agents leave the room. Chris tells his story to his dad, agents come back in and discuss then leave again, Ronnie stays with Chris. At this point Chris asks his dad “Did you tell mom yet”. Ronnie answers no.
Ronnie has not left the room, when did he have a chance to tell Cindy if he didn’t know before he entered the room. I also think it is odd that when Chris said smothered twice Ronnie said “choke or smothered”, why would he question what Chris was saying, was Chris going off script? Maybe I am looking at it with bias but I don’t know why he wouldn’t just accept Chris saying they were smothered. Chris was very close to his father, it is hard to believe he would not confide and seek his advice.

I’ve commented before about the agents technique, how masterful they were. Watching how child like Chris is is both sad and disturbing. The agents knew to approach him as if speaking to a child, soft spoken voices, rubbing his back, constant reassurances.
 
Layla123 said:
About NK’s Vocal Fry:
Are we policing young women’s voices?
From Upspeak To Vocal Fry: Are We 'Policing' Young Women's Voices?
There are specific ways to make women shut up.
Stop telling women how they should talk
Ridiculing vocal fry is sexist.
This Is Why Ridiculing Vocal Fry Is Sexist
Click to expand...

I'm not a verified anything here, but I worked as an RN in an ENT clinic with a MD who specialized in voice for several years. The speech therapist that I worked with and I had many conversations about vocal fry LONG before it became popular to point it out in pop culture. It can be very annoying. I agree that we don't need to police people's voices, but when it is something that is affected, rather than caused by a condition of the vocal cords people notice it (eta: professionally - I'm not talking about pop culture here).

I suggest reading this article written by a speech pathology professional organization which writes about the condition/affected speech with a less biased viewpoint.
Totally Fried
 
Things I noticed about CW from the bits and pieces of video I've seen-

Someone mentioned how he hot-footed it to the house to meet NUA and the police. Oh my how he did so. He RAN up and then into the house trying to get in before them.

But the police were right on top of him. They already knew.

In the interviews, he's a right little soldier. So eager to be a good boy and make the investigator's proud of him and pleased.

Ugh. He's gross. His desire to be seen as a good boy is so intense. I think it's such a driving force. Make them disappear because divorce would make me look bad.

That strong obsession with pleasing people combined with an ability to manipulate and not having a strong identity, seems like a dangerous combination.

On the previous thread someone mentioned how CW's parents criticized SW for keeping Bella's hair short. I watched most of her videos. SW did not keep Bella's hair short. It was clear to me that Shanann felt bad for Bella that her hair didn't grow fast.

Those people will stop at nothing to make Shanann look bad.

Watching the sentencing hearing their statments were subtle but important. His mother said they have to question EVERYTHING due to the circumstances. She emphasized that word. She followed it quickly with we love you and forgive you for what you did.

I am certain she was signalling to him that she still believes his second story - that Shanann did it- believes he is pleading guilty for another reason and forgives him for having to kill Shanann.

I don't think she has changed one bit. At least not at that point.
 
katydid23 said:
Random thoughts while
listening to the 2 hr ‘confession’ with Chris and his Dad and the 2 detectives:

That male detective has such a soothing voice and gentle way about him. He made me want to confess my sins too. He seems so trustworthy and calming.

Cw denied and denied and is so totally unconvincing. ‘I did not put their bodies in my truck.’ <<They didn’t ask him that but he answered it anyway…

Also, interesting when Daddy Watts asked Chris:

You really think this is going to work?

Chris, in a phony ‘intense’ confession, to the detectives:

I didn’t know what to do…none of this makes any sense…I mean…

Why would she kill my effin girls?

[why would you call them your ‘EFFIN girls?]

“My babies were dead…and

I put my hands around my wife’s neck and did that same thing…”

[ opts—caught in a lie when they did the autospy]

His Dad makes lame attempt to use that FB image of the doll in a sheet to say it was a threat from SW….OOPSIE again. That was Chris that took that pic.

I love how the detective keeps telling Chris he is a ‘good man.’ He knows exactly what Chris likes to hear…stroking the massive ego of a narce.

The most upset he got, and the loudest objection from CW, was when the detective asked if he wanted his coworkers to get the babies out —he freaked out, literally, at the thought of them ‘thinking poorly of him.’
I think maybe because of NK.

after the 'confession, and the detectives leave the room, he says to his dad’…’ thing is, I don’t even know if they believed me or not…’
LE

what do u think made her snap?

CW:
Just because she knew about the affair, but I wouldn’t say it… In her heart she knew…

Yah, sure Chris. You make her suspicious over a 56 dollar meal, so she is going to run into her girl's rooms and strangle them to death, seconds later.

LE tries to pin him down to a story—

“ I hear a commotion upstairs,,like pound pound pound…”

I go upstairs in bedroom, look at monitor, see Bella, covers pulled back, she is sprawled out—then 3 or 4 seconds later it goes to other monitor, and I see CeCe room…

[ why did you sit there for 4 or 5 seconds after seeing your baby sprawled out, blue, on the monitor? ]

LE : was she straddling cece?

CW:
I walked up from the back…pulled her off, cece was blue, no movement at all, she was limp,

I looked at her and got on top of her and did the same thing, pulled her on to the bed, I just lost it…


I think he got a bit confused there--why did he pull SW on top of the bed. Wasn't she on there straddling Cece?


DIDNT THEY CHECK HIM FOR WEAPONS BEFORE HE CAME INTO THE INTERVIEW ROOM?
Click to expand...

I think he was trying to explain away any evidence. Of her on her mattress or sheets. So she had to be back on her bed.

CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #61

She was probably mad to see SW had so much stuff about her married life and pregnancy on FB so demanded he get off it. Remember all that talk about how SW kept putting stuff on there about how great their marriage was although it wasn't? That's probably what CW made up to explain it away to NK. We know his family used that excuse to explain why he suddenly deleted his FB.

CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #61

They believe everything they precious son tells them. At one point he told his girlfriend that Nico wasn't his. He probably told them the same thing.

It helps explain why he's not a bad guy for leaving her. Because for awhile he may have been trying to figure out how to do that.

They don't care about Nico because they don't think he's theirs.

CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #61

Yes he confessed to killing the girls. He pled guilty to the first degree murder with premeditation and deliberation of Celeste and Bella. He was asked about each child and asked about his guilt as to each one, separately and he pled guilty to each.

It's not on video but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. He said "Guilty" when asked how he pled to each. Separately.

That's a confession. That's a fact.

Just because a confession doesn't have the detail people crave doesn't mean it's not a confession.

The DA referred to him giving a statement as to what he did and why.

Here is the sentencing video.

I don't see Rourke turning around to him at any time or asking him to "confess". Or to give an "admission." I didn't hear those words or see him turn to the defendant at all.

He already confessed and he already admitted to killing all three and Nico. That's what a plea is:

""How" and "why" are the questions that will always haunt people examining this case, said Rourke, and that's why he called upon Christopher Watts to speak in court today."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.coloradoan.com/amp/2054620002
 
So it seems Watt's completely owned himself in the Polygraph pre-interview


See from around 53mins

Watt's is mansplaining in great detail his security system - notice the pride and confidence as he speaks about it.

They have a sensor in the ground floor that detects movement. This can be set to a passive mode where it does not give an alarm - but it still logs the movement. So it seems when Watt's was home he had it in this mode.

So it picks up Watt's himself after 4am "getting ready to go to work" (he leaves at 5.30am). It also picked up SW coming home on Sunday nite.

So the detective asks him if it then picks up SW and the kids later on Monday after he leaves.

Whoops!

So there was no movement in the house after he left - yet supposedly his wife and kids were there.

He realises this mistake and starts talking about alerts from open garage door and open cellar door.

The man is such a clown!
 
Last edited:
mrjitty said:
So it seems Watt's completely owned himself in the Polygraph pre-interview


See from around 53mins

Watt's is mansplaining in great detail his security system - notice the pride and confidence as he speaks about it.

They have a sensor in the ground floor that detects movement. This can be set to a passive mode where it does not give an alarm - but it still logs the movement. So it seems when Watt's was home he had it in this mode.

So it picks up Watt's himself after 4am "getting ready to go to work" (he leaves at 5.30am). It also picked up SW coming home on Sunday nite.

So the detective asks him if it then picks up SW and the kids later on Monday after he leaves.

Whoops!

So there was no movement in the house after he left - yet supposedly his wife and kids were there.

He realises this mistake and starts talking about alerts from open garage door and open cellar door.

The man is such a clown!
Click to expand...


This idiot does not think things through, at all. It blows my mind how little foresight this man has.

He tells LE that he was at the Rockies game and gives them the names of the coworkers, that DID NOT attend the game with him. Did he think the cops weren't going to talk to those guys? I don't get it.
 
mrjitty said:
So it seems Watt's completely owned himself in the Polygraph pre-interview


See from around 53mins

Watt's is mansplaining in great detail his security system - notice the pride and confidence as he speaks about it.

They have a sensor in the ground floor that detects movement. This can be set to a passive mode where it does not give an alarm - but it still logs the movement. So it seems when Watt's was home he had it in this mode.

So it picks up Watt's himself after 4am "getting ready to go to work" (he leaves at 5.30am). It also picked up SW coming home on Sunday nite.

So the detective asks him if it then picks up SW and the kids later on Monday after he leaves.

Whoops!

So there was no movement in the house after he left - yet supposedly his wife and kids were there.

He realises this mistake and starts talking about alerts from open garage door and open cellar door.

The man is such a clown!
Click to expand...
He just keeps getting in his own way...
 
katydid23 said:
This idiot does not think things through, at all. It blows my mind how little foresight this man has.

He tells LE that he was at the Rockies game and gives them the names of the coworkers, that DID NOT attend the game with him. Did he think the cops weren't going to talk to those guys? I don't get it.
Click to expand...
I think that he did think that everyone would just believe anything he said, because he is such a good guy.
 
Jennifer17 said:
I think that he did think that everyone would just believe anything he said, because he is such a good guy.
Click to expand...

Exactly, he was used to having things his own way. For some strange reason it appears as though he thought nobody would question his version of events - it was the way it was because that is what he wanted. It didn't seem to occur to him questions would be asked.
 
gitana1 said:
I think he was trying to explain away any evidence. Of her on her mattress or sheets. So she had to be back on her bed.

CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #61

She was probably mad to see SW had so much stuff about her married life and pregnancy on FB so demanded he get off it. Remember all that talk about how SW kept putting stuff on there about how great their marriage was although it wasn't? That's probably what CW made up to explain it away to NK. We know his family used that excuse to explain why he suddenly deleted his FB.

CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #61

They believe everything they precious son tells them. At one point he told his girlfriend that Nico wasn't his. He probably told them the same thing.

It helps explain why he's not a bad guy for leaving her. Because for awhile he may have been trying to figure out how to do that.

They don't care about Nico because they don't think he's theirs.

CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #61

Yes he confessed to killing the girls. He pled guilty to the first degree murder with premeditation and deliberation of Celeste and Bella. He was asked about each child and asked about his guilt as to each one, separately and he pled guilty to each.

It's not on video but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. He said "Guilty" when asked how he pled to each. Separately.

That's a confession. That's a fact.

Just because a confession doesn't have the detail people crave doesn't mean it's not a confession.

The DA referred to him giving a statement as to what he did and why.

Here is the sentencing video.

I don't see Rourke turning around to him at any time or asking him to "confess". Or to give an "admission." I didn't hear those words or see him turn to the defendant at all.

He already confessed and he already admitted to killing all three and Nico. That's what a plea is:

""How" and "why" are the questions that will always haunt people examining this case, said Rourke, and that's why he called upon Christopher Watts to speak in court today."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.coloradoan.com/amp/2054620002
Click to expand...
I just saw the photos of Shanann’s shirt, bra and undies.
I had imagined she was strangled while in bed sleeping, due to the autopsy report but I don’t think most women wear their bra to bed. Perhaps he just pushed her to the floor.
 
MollyDDD said:
I just saw the photos of Shanann’s shirt, bra and undies.
I had imagined she was strangled while in bed sleeping, due to the autopsy report but I don’t think most women wear their bra to bed. Perhaps he just pushed her to the floor.
Click to expand...
Haa! We had a long discussion about that in a previous thread.

Some women do apparently.
 
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