IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #172

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below

HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19

HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.

Pictures of Abby and Libby

Link to post with all Threads #1-98 (Courtesy of margarita25)

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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Sillybilly]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

There has been a major cleanup on this thread tonight due to numerous TOS violations. Here are the RULES we all agreed to upon joining this site.

We have a thread dedicated to KAK HERE. If you have an update specific to any of his current charges, pending charges or news, it is to be posted on that thread. For example, dismissals, court appearances, etc.

This is an example of an article and subject matter that may be brought up for discussion on this thread. This pertains to KAK and Abby’s and Libby’s cases. Although sources such as this are approved, you personally have the right to decide how much credibility you give to them. Nevertheless, they remain approved sources here on Websleuths.

Regardless of what is posted in ANY approved source, RA’s family (to include photos) are completely off limits as of this post. They are victims. PERIOD.

If you’re going to reference or discuss a topic (even if it’s been brought up before), a link to an approved source must be provided. Otherwise, don’t mention it.

Decisions made by officials may not sit well with us, but they’re most often made for a reason.

And lastly, STAY ON TOPIC. Please and THANK YOU!

- Mad

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

If your post begins with any of the following, IT IS LIKELY AT RISK OF BEING REMOVED, along with any of its replies. Please take the time to find an approved source link to accompany the information you post.

“I thought I read somewhere…”

“I seem to remember hearing…”

“I’m not sure if I can bring this up, but…”

“I can’t remember where I heard this…”

OR

“This is just a rumor…”

Thanks,
Mad

 

[steeltowngirl]

Justice for Libby and Abby

 

[CGBSpender]

Changing the subject for a moment...I don't feel like RA became a suspect due to some miraculous rediscovery of the CO's 2017 interview notes...I feel like LE probably got some other lead or tip that lead them to circle back to RA, and they then dug up the CO's notes to bolster their PCA for a search warrant...so as not to have to show their hand as to what really lead them back to him.

Several things about the alleged leaked thumbdrive map (which is pretty easy to find online at this point) were interesting to me (if legit)...but two in particular were the 10/03/2023 reference to an alleged Autozone interview...as well as the reference to an alleged "build sheet" for the Focus that was part of the search warrant. Again, if legit...it makes me wonder if LE had a confidential informant working for them that they met with that is/was a mechanic and/or tow truck driver or something...that may have had prior access to the Focus that was part of the RA search warrant...and as such it makes me wonder if LE may have had some advance knowledge of whether or not the vehicle's infotainment system was designed to retain trip history and/or gps history, had any such history ever been scrubbed, and maybe even provided info about what goodies the system might contain?

I just think it is odd that LE towed the vehicle and only took like 2-3 swabs (none of which look like they were sent to the lab) and some carpet from the spare tire area (which was sent to a lab)...given that this is someone suspected to have been involved in brutal double homicide, I would have thought that LE would have been all over that car looking for evidence...which makes me think that what they really wanted off the car maybe didn't have anything to do with swabs or fibers...and those physical items listed on the evidence sheet from the car are kind of a red herring.

JMO

 

[Ward Thisperer]

Richard Allen's new attorneys claim there's been a lack of 'meaningful' public access in Delphi Case

The attorneys for Allen, who is accused of killing Abigail Williams and Liberty German in Delphi in 2017, claim that hundreds of documents in the case have been improperly excluded from the public.

www.wrtv.com

This is accurate, the complaint is about public access not RA’s ability to access.

Richard Allen attorney files motion to continue representation, asks to have judge removed

On Thursday, attorney Brad Rozzi filed a motion to continue his representation of Allen, claiming the court ambushed he and Baldwin, placing them in a compromising position.

www.wrtv.com

This article is about the actions of B&R as part of the murder case. B&R aren’t on the SC motion at all. Of course they are involved with the filing behind the scenes I assume but CW initiated the filing and they aren’t formally involved. It’s simply inaccurate to say B&R are have filed anything with the SC.

 

[CGBSpender]

The alleged leaked thumbdrive map references an alleged interview of an individual at Grissom Airforce Base. This is interesting to me, because MS talked about this on their podcast at one point...I believe saying that the individual was released into the custody of ISP for certain days in Aug of 2022, and permitted to leave their place of incarceration with ISP by a judge (which the CCS does corroborate)...and that a source informed them that the individual was taken from their place of incarceration to Grissom, then later returned to their place of incarceration. If legit, I keep wondering why? Why not conduct an interview at the place of incarceration, or the nearest ISP office? Why the need to take someone to Grissom? The only thing I can come up with was that perhaps the individual had some kind of information concerning a violation of US Military Law, and that the discussion required the presence of a JAG Officer who insisted that any discussions take place on base? Curious if anyone with military knowledge might have some thoughts...

JMO

 

[Pitsleuth]

I've thought about this a lot over the past few months... it makes my blood boil reading the details of some recent events, mostly having to do with that ridiculous FM and the claims made therein. Once I read how many times they unnecessarily used the term "slow death", my mind was made up about that document. And yet I can see how others' blood may boil thinking that there is a potentially innocent man sitting in prison.
But then I remember other cases and the posts by some leading up to a conviction. This does tend to happen with most cases. There were people who thought there was no way Murdaugh murdered his son and wife, posting such opinions here on WS throughout the trial. Head on over to the Idaho thread and you'll see the same thing about BK (that one is pretty clear, IMO). And lets not forget the Chris Watts debacle.
I honestly think that many people have an inherent distrust of LE, and are willing to do some crazy mental gymnastics to explain why the accused may in fact be innocent. In this case, people seem to genuinely believe that, early on, LE had their man (or group of men) but chose to leave that behind for 5 years, for whatever reason, to later pin this on RA. And not just local LE (who, granted, could have Odinist members for all we know), but also the ISP and FBI.
I am trying to stay patient and let this play out as it may, because I do believe they have the correct person in jail...erm, prison. I think the P is doing the same- they are ready to try this case, while the D is creating situations that are pushing the endgame further and further away.
But I am also trying to have grace and understand why other posters do not feel the way I do.

 

[Ravenmoon]

DBM

 

[Ravenmoon]

The alleged leaked thumbdrive map references an alleged interview of an individual at Grissom Airforce Base. This is interesting to me, because MS talked about this on their podcast at one point...I believe saying that the individual was released into the custody of ISP for certain days in Aug of 2022, and permitted to leave their place of incarceration with ISP by a judge (which the CCS does corroborate)...and that a source informed them that the individual was taken from their place of incarceration to Grissom, then later returned to their place of incarceration. If legit, I keep wondering why? Why not conduct an interview at the place of incarceration, or the nearest ISP office? Why the need to take someone to Grissom? The only thing I can come up with was that perhaps the individual had some kind of information concerning a violation of US Military Law, and that the discussion required the presence of a JAG Officer who insisted that any discussions take place on base? Curious if anyone with military knowledge might have some thoughts...

JMO

'"The state of Indiana acquired a large section of land from the Grissom Air Force Base, located in north central Indiana for use as a new state correctional facility."

Wow!
It seems like KAK might still have a connection to this case after all.

As to speculating on the why, it could have been for his protection. He is in general population, isn't he?

Maybe there was information regarding specific people within his current residence that he had information about. Who knows how far up the chain that could go?

Miami Correctional Facility.

 

[Trebor5591]

I've thought about this a lot over the past few months... it makes my blood boil reading the details of some recent events, mostly having to do with that ridiculous FM and the claims made therein. Once I read how many times they unnecessarily used the term "slow death", my mind was made up about that document. And yet I can see how others' blood may boil thinking that there is a potentially innocent man sitting in prison.
But then I remember other cases and the posts by some leading up to a conviction. This does tend to happen with most cases. There were people who thought there was no way Murdaugh murdered his son and wife, posting such opinions here on WS throughout the trial. Head on over to the Idaho thread and you'll see the same thing about BK (that one is pretty clear, IMO). And lets not forget the Chris Watts debacle.
I honestly think that many people have an inherent distrust of LE, and are willing to do some crazy mental gymnastics to explain why the accused may in fact be innocent. In this case, people seem to genuinely believe that, early on, LE had their man (or group of men) but chose to leave that behind for 5 years, for whatever reason, to later pin this on RA. And not just local LE (who, granted, could have Odinist members for all we know), but also the ISP and FBI.
I am trying to stay patient and let this play out as it may, because I do believe they have the correct person in jail...erm, prison. I think the P is doing the same- they are ready to try this case, while the D is creating situations that are pushing the endgame further and further away.
But I am also trying to have grace and understand why other posters do not feel the way I do.

But by removing the two defense attorneys who were on the case for 11 months, isn't it the judge who is "creating situations that are pushing the endgame further and further away"? Because by her removing those attorneys, the trial date was moved from Jan 2024 to November 2024--nearly a year further out.

 

[DeDee]

The alleged leaked thumbdrive map references an alleged interview of an individual at Grissom Airforce Base. This is interesting to me, because MS talked about this on their podcast at one point...I believe saying that the individual was released into the custody of ISP for certain days in Aug of 2022, and permitted to leave their place of incarceration with ISP by a judge (which the CCS does corroborate)...and that a source informed them that the individual was taken from their place of incarceration to Grissom, then later returned to their place of incarceration. If legit, I keep wondering why? Why not conduct an interview at the place of incarceration, or the nearest ISP office? Why the need to take someone to Grissom? The only thing I can come up with was that perhaps the individual had some kind of information concerning a violation of US Military Law, and that the discussion required the presence of a JAG Officer who insisted that any discussions take place on base? Curious if anyone with military knowledge might have some thoughts...

JMO

I am not sure what the alleged leaked thumbdrive map references are. Can you drop a link for it, please? TIA

 

[CGBSpender]

But by removing the two defense attorneys who were on the case for 11 months, isn't it the judge who is "creating situations that are pushing the endgame further and further away"? Because by her removing those attorneys, the trial date was moved from Jan 2024 to November 2024--nearly a year further out.

Pick your poison. If you leave as is, and go to trial in January 2024 (which I don't believe is realistic no matter what the former D says)...and he gets convicted...he's likely got some good grounds for appeal based on the situation with the former D, so with a successful appeal...you're looking at all of that work being for nothing, and starting the process all over again...which probably pushes a final resolution out at least to 2026 (likely longer). Not taking the course of action that she has selected is also a bit like gambling probably well north of a million dollars in taxpayer money...when the issue can be remedied by simply making the change now, and pushing the trial date out by 10 months.

JMO

 

[Emma Peel]

The alleged leaked thumbdrive map references an alleged interview of an individual at Grissom Airforce Base. This is interesting to me, because MS talked about this on their podcast at one point...I believe saying that the individual was released into the custody of ISP for certain days in Aug of 2022, and permitted to leave their place of incarceration with ISP by a judge (which the CCS does corroborate)...and that a source informed them that the individual was taken from their place of incarceration to Grissom, then later returned to their place of incarceration. If legit, I keep wondering why? Why not conduct an interview at the place of incarceration, or the nearest ISP office? Why the need to take someone to Grissom? The only thing I can come up with was that perhaps the individual had some kind of information concerning a violation of US Military Law, and that the discussion required the presence of a JAG Officer who insisted that any discussions take place on base? Curious if anyone with military knowledge might have some thoughts...

JMO

Mid-August 2022 was the days long search of the river at Delphi and Murder Sheet reported from the search site that the search was related to Delphi. (Whatever that means.)

Don't know if the river search produced anything. Perhaps someone paying closer attention during 2022 would know?

If it's possible to look at a timeline for these two events (water search and the Grissom custody) *might* just line up. Extrapolate from there ... and we'd still have to wait for trial to stop speculating. Color me curious with a side of frustrated.

You may have already noticed this. JMHO

 

[Pitsleuth]

But by removing the two defense attorneys who were on the case for 11 months, isn't it the judge who is "creating situations that are pushing the endgame further and further away"? Because by her removing those attorneys, the trial date was moved from Jan 2024 to November 2024--nearly a year further out.

The judge didn’t just randomly decide to do that. But I’m sure you know this. If not, her email to them and the P is on the last thread.
MOO.

 

[Emma Peel]

Changing the subject for a moment...I don't feel like RA became a suspect due to some miraculous rediscovery of the CO's 2017 interview notes...I feel like LE probably got some other lead or tip that lead them to circle back to RA, and they then dug up the CO's notes to bolster their PCA for a search warrant...so as not to have to show their hand as to what really lead them back to him.

Several things about the alleged leaked thumbdrive map (which is pretty easy to find online at this point) were interesting to me (if legit)...but two in particular were the 10/03/2023 reference to an alleged Autozone interview...as well as the reference to an alleged "build sheet" for the Focus that was part of the search warrant. Again, if legit...it makes me wonder if LE had a confidential informant working for them that they met with that is/was a mechanic and/or tow truck driver or something...that may have had prior access to the Focus that was part of the RA search warrant...and as such it makes me wonder if LE may have had some advance knowledge of whether or not the vehicle's infotainment system was designed to retain trip history and/or gps history, had any such history ever been scrubbed, and maybe even provided info about what goodies the system might contain?

I just think it is odd that LE towed the vehicle and only took like 2-3 swabs (none of which look like they were sent to the lab) and some carpet from the spare tire area (which was sent to a lab)...given that this is someone suspected to have been involved in brutal double homicide, I would have thought that LE would have been all over that car looking for evidence...which makes me think that what they really wanted off the car maybe didn't have anything to do with swabs or fibers...and those physical items listed on the evidence sheet from the car are kind of a red herring.

JMO

Have no idea if digital auto records at chains such as Autozone are kept now-a-days such that LE can check local auto shops prior to confronting a suspect. However, I'd not be surprised.

 

[TL4S]

Mid-August 2022 was the days long search of the river at Delphi and Murder Sheet reported from the search site that the search was related to Delphi. (Whatever that means.)

Don't know if the river search produced anything. Perhaps someone paying closer attention during 2022 would know?

If it's possible to look at a timeline for these two events (water search and the Grissom custody) *might* just line up. Extrapolate from there ... and we'd still have to wait for trial to stop speculating. Color me curious with a side of frustrated.

You may have already noticed this. JMHO

It was a five week long search of the Wabash River near Peru (Aug/Sept). KAK was taken into custody by the ISP, per court records, near the beginning. MS reported it was related to Delphi and based off things KAK told ISP.

ISP search of Wabash River concludes, police not saying if anything was found.