Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

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Tricia

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Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby
ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

PICTURES OF ABBY AND LIBBY
Link to post with all threads 1 - 98 (Courtesy of margarita25)
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Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*
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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.
 
ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules
 
I have not seen any indication that the D is planning on using RA's mental health as a defense for him committing the crimes. They've acknowledged that he has a long history of depression, for which he's sought treatment for in the past, but he was otherwise a normal functioning human being in society.

The D have really only brought issue with mid-March through June of 2023. If, during that time, he was being medicated irregularly, or even just while trying to adjust dosages, it doesn't seem unreasonable to argue that he was not in a healthy state of mind for reliable conveying of facts. Whether his "confessions" were valid during that time should be a consideration once the timeline and clinical information is known, as it would be for anyone else experiencing a mental health crisis. Jmo.

If RA had indeed seen a lot of the discovery, and knew about the CS/autopsy, that also could play a factor in what he appeared to have knowledge of. There's way too much we don't know. The State said they have a strong case, so I think that evidence can speak for itself at trial, without confessions given under questionable conditions. Even if they are straight up accurate confessions, why risk it if the other evidence is as strong as the State says it is? Jmo.
 
I posted to the old thread right before it closed.
I was responding to Mr Jitty. In the analysis of the latest motion to suppress.
I think defense has laid out that RA was confessing his crimes from March to June 2023. We know he confessed to his wife and mother on April 4. At some point they are starting his mental health entered a state of psychosis. They do not give is the dates of this mental state or the dates of all the confessions. Imo
I am not confident that his psychosis lasted more than a few weeks ( or was genuine). IMO the only confessions that could be considered to be surpressed would have to be proven to have occurred during that time. JMO
Any confessions made outside that period should be presented to jury. Jmo
Defense failed to provide the time or his psychosis in relations to the time and frequency of his confessions.IMO
IMO the motion is vague and sloppy. IMO it’s not even directed to the court or appellate. It’s too ambiguous.
 
TL4S said:
I have not seen any indication that the D is planning on using RA's mental health as a defense for him committing the crimes. They've acknowledged that he has a long history of depression, for which he's sought treatment for in the past, but he was otherwise a normal functioning human being in society.

The D have really only brought issue with mid-March through June of 2023. If, during that time, he was being medicated irregularly, or even just while trying to adjust dosages, it doesn't seem unreasonable to argue that he was not in a healthy state of mind for reliable conveying of facts. Whether his "confessions" were valid during that time should be a consideration once the timeline and clinical information is known, as it would be for anyone else experiencing a mental health crisis. Jmo.

If RA had indeed seen a lot of the discovery, and knew about the CS/autopsy, that also could play a factor in what he appeared to have knowledge of. There's way too much we don't know. The State said they have a strong case, so I think that evidence can speak for itself at trial, without confessions given under questionable conditions. Even if they are straight up accurate confessions, why risk it if the other evidence is as strong as the State says it is? Jmo.
Click to expand...


Thats not been proven though and until trial we won’t know. The fact the defense wants them excluded like the bullet would indicate they are worried they prove guilt.

The reverse also holds true why does the defense want them excluded if they can prove beyond a reasonable that he wasn’t in his right mind? So let the prosecution use them if they ain’t worried.

IMO
 
Salah11 said:
Thats not been proven though and until trial we won’t know. The fact the defense wants them excluded like the bullet would indicate they are worried they prove guilt.

The reverse also holds true why does the defense want them excluded if they can prove beyond a reasonable that he wasn’t in his right mind? So let the prosecution use them if they ain’t worried.

IMO
Click to expand...
True enough. I feel like the D is just doing their job. If they sat back and didn't bring up mental health concerns, his incarceration issues as opposed to other pretrial detainees, lines of investigations perhaps not as fully looked into as could have been, etc, the D would not be fulfilling their duties. If the State can push back against all these arguments and prove their point, it's all the stronger a case for them. Jmo.
 
I'm sorry but this is just another tactic for the D to try and get the confessions thrown out IMO. The D themselves have said that the times they met with RA he was helpful, respectful, communicative and in general good spirits. That would have been from Nov - April.

The D Motion states that RA had been treated for depression at some points in his life. That's very different than psychosis and other debilitating mental illness conditions. I'd love to know the numbers of the population in general that have been treated for depression at some point, especially after COVID. Times got hard for a lot of people.

I personally know 7 individuals that take an anti depressant, they are highly functioning, not slobbering, paper and poo eating, non sleeping eating individuals. They don't go around confessing to murders they obviously didn't commit.

I have no judgement against anyone with a mental health issue period. I am grateful to see that over the last few years people are actually talking about it without stigma. That's the way it should be, because there is no shame in it.

What I do find quite odd and coincidental is that RA wasn't showing any signs of this severe psychosis, or mental break until AFTER the discovery dump of the State's evidence. He made confessions to his wife and mother which we will learn the context of at trial. Then he became severely mentally ill from that time up until June, when he went back to his 'normal' actions.

The Westville DOC will have mental health records for RA, especially if he came into the prison already on medication. They are licensed Doctors, Nurses, and Psychiatrists who must follow the Hippocratic Oath and I find it hard to believe they would intentionally drug or misdrug a defendant. Again, a conspiracy bridge too far.

The D wants to garner sympathy for RA again after the Odin angle wimped out and they need those darn, pesky confessions thrown out. What better way to do this with the added benefit of righteous indignation if you dare even question RA's mental health status. Win/Win for the Defense, or so they think.

Lori Vallow and Leticia Stauch are just 2 of the recent cases that tried to blame their actions on mental defect. It didn't work for them. Sometimes people are just bad. Period. There is no explaining it.

MOO
 
Salah11 said:
Thats not been proven though and until trial we won’t know. The fact the defense wants them excluded like the bullet would indicate they are worried they prove guilt.

The reverse also holds true why does the defense want them excluded if they can prove beyond a reasonable that he wasn’t in his right mind? So let the prosecution use them if they ain’t worried.

IMO
Click to expand...

Good point.
If the defense felt these specific “false” confessions would exonerate RA by countering any others he may have made, they would wait for trial and show it to the jury.
I’m guessing they didn’t do that because there are plenty of other confessions that contain zero mistakes and, more importantly I think, at least a handful of confessions that contain very detailed information only the killer would know.
They need all the confessions ruled out because their piddly “false” confessions will be annihilated by the truth out of RA’s own mouth.
Interesting I think, that RA has been in many ways the State’s star witness. He put himself at the trails at the perfect time. Later he admitted to actually being on the bridge as Libby and Abby were headed to the bridge. Then RA says he left. He had to walk up the same path the girls were on walking toward the bridge yet he says he never saw them. Hmmmmmm.
Then RA confesses to his wife and mother and others.
I sat on the fence for a long time, admittedly leaning toward RA being the killer, but I was still on the fence. Not anymore. RA is guilty because he says he is.
 
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TL4S said:
True enough. I feel like the D is just doing their job. If they sat back and didn't bring up mental health concerns, his incarceration issues as opposed to other pretrial detainees, lines of investigations perhaps not as fully looked into as could have been, etc, the D would not be fulfilling their duties. If the State can push back against all these arguments and prove their point, it's all the stronger a case for them. Jmo.
Click to expand...
I think they are probably also concerned about how much discovery she will allow them to introduce. Based on her previous actions, IMO... as little as possible. If they were giving odds on the judge agreeing to suppress those confessions, I think they would be pretty close to 0.

At least it's on the record. Right here:

04/11/2024Motion to Suppress Filed
Motion to Suppress Statements
Filed By: Allen, Richard M.
File Stamp: 04/11/2024
04/11/2024Memorandum/Brief Filed
Memorandum of Law in Support of Defendant Allen's Motion to Suppress
Filed By: Allen, Richard M.
File Stamp: 04/11/2024
 
girlhasnoname said:
The D Motion states that RA had been treated for depression at some points in his life. That's very different than psychosis and other debilitating mental illness conditions. I'd love to know the numbers of the population in general that have been treated for depression at some point, especially after COVID. Times got hard for a lot of people.
Click to expand...
SBMFF

In 2 words? A lot. In much mo' words?:

In 2014, Mental Health America (MHA) created the Online Screening Program (www.mhascreening.org), a collection of 10 free, anonymous, confidential, and clinically validated screens that are among the most commonly used mental health screening tools in clinical settings. Since its launch, over 14 million people have taken a screen to check their mental health concerns online, making this program the nation’s largest ongoing, real-time mental health early identification program.

In 2021, over 5.4 million (N=5,441,125) people took a mental health screen, representing a nearly 500% increase over the number of people who completed a screening in 2019 and a 103% increase over 2020.

1713196686744.png

mhanational.org

Mental Health and COVID-19 2021 Data

mhanational.org mhanational.org

Old news (early on in the pandemic):

In the first year of the COVID-19 pandemic, global prevalence of anxiety and depression increased by a massive 25%, according to a scientific brief released by the World Health Organization (WHO) today.

www.who.int

COVID-19 pandemic triggers 25% increase in prevalence of anxiety and depression worldwide

In the first year of the COVID-19 pandemic, global prevalence of anxiety and depression increased by a massive 25%, according to a scientific brief released by the World Health Organization (WHO) today.
www.who.int www.who.int
 
Salah11 said:
Thats not been proven though and until trial we won’t know. The fact the defense wants them excluded like the bullet would indicate they are worried they prove guilt.

The reverse also holds true why does the defense want them excluded if they can prove beyond a reasonable that he wasn’t in his right mind? So let the prosecution use them if they ain’t worried.

IMO
Click to expand...
Excluding information, for a defense attorney, is just the name of the game. Otherwise, it really is ineffective assistance of counsel. You want to make it as hard as possible for the prosecution to convict. None of this "well, we will let it in and not worry about it" stuff.
 
layer said:
To me there have been no ups, only downs.
It feels like I was pushed off that bridge over 7 years ago and haven't hit the bottom yet.
Truly
Click to expand...
It’s been down the hill over and over again.
May these girls get justice in the only form of we can offer.
IMO RA is the guy and he did it because he could and he liked it. JMO
I wouldn’t be surprised if this wasn’t the first time. JMO
IMO it was just the first time he got caught by someone wiser than small town cops that don’t have much experience in gruesome child murders by strangers.
MOO
 
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