Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #183

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

PICTURES OF ABBY AND LIBBY
Link to post with all threads 1 - 98 (Courtesy of margarita25)
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Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*
Link to Media Maps & Timelines #2 *No Discussion*
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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tricia]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules

 

[Knitty]

Please continue the discussion here.

 

[WildHuncher]

The late ping data doesn’t fit for me. Did some of the staging of the bodies occur at night during the search with the killer or someone else visiting the scene?

Could it be an artifact / limitation of the phone-tower technology?

Troubled.

 

[TTF14]

Does anybody know what happens if it's, say, May 29th (a Wednesday), and there's no way they will be finished by Friday, the 31st?

 

[TTF14]

The late ping data doesn’t fit for me. Did some of the staging of the bodies occur at night during the search with the killer or someone else visiting the scene?

Could it be an artifact / limitation of the phone-tower technology?

Troubled.

Good questions! I think the first scenario. JMO

A third theory is maybe a dying phone battery causes it to ping erratically?

 

[photographer4]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F6NxWdajU-LkXH4b9bCb6qfdFIVxgBke/view

So many questions!!
- the phone was pinged successfully at 5:44pm on the 13th of Feb on the day the kids were missing per point #10.

But it seems like the State had evidence of many other pings - 44 to be precise, but they didn't bother to tell the Defence until November 9, 2023?? What the heck? Why would they not?

Further, it would seem that there were 2 pings from Feb 13, 2017 - at 5:48pm & 7:16pm. (point #13).

How does the State explain their failure to tell the Defence this information?? Then point #22 states that the phone pinged AGAIN on Feb 14, 2017 at 4:33am. Clearly it wasn't turned off or out of the area at that point if it pinged the tower again, right??? So what happened? Did the kids (and the phone) leave the area and come back? Did the phone travel with someone in a turned off state and then get returned to the spot where it was found under the body? Did it get put in airplane mode and then taken out of airplane mode for it to ping again? Would airplane mode have prevented it pinging?

This is very weird so I hope the State has a darn good explanation for the entire situation!

 

[LaurelTedytamer]

Ok first off I want to say I love our Websleuth site. People with opposite opinions discuss things without issues or name calling. Whether you think the Defense Counsel is zealous on behalf of RA or if you think they are behaving inappropriately.

We talk about the issues and get to read other’s opinions that we can take in. I don’t see bullying and I don’t see set in stone opinions that make fun of others. I have been other groups and seeing what is posted disturbs me immensely there.

I honestly hope the trial is fair and the jury listens to the evidence and comes to a decision. If that happens then justice is done. That’s is surely what we all want. I decision that unites. I don’t know if he’s guilty or not…but after a fair trial I will follow the view of the jury. American Justice happens… the whole world is watching this case.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Does anybody know what happens if it's, say, May 29th (a Wednesday), and there's no way they will be finished by Friday, the 31st?

I think it will end on the day it's scheduled to end. Period. I have no idea how she will divide the time between the P and the D. I think she'll cut out a lot of what the D plans to present.

 

[Justice101]

What are the chances the trial gets delayed? Any opinions?

 

[Tealgrove]

Does anybody know what happens if it's, say, May 29th (a Wednesday), and there's no way they will be finished by Friday, the 31st?

That’s an excellent question. I’d like to know as well.

 

[TTF14]

What are the chances the trial gets delayed? Any opinions?

Significantly high, in my opinion.

 

[TTF14]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F6NxWdajU-LkXH4b9bCb6qfdFIVxgBke/view

So many questions!!
- the phone was pinged successfully at 5:44pm on the 13th of Feb on the day the kids were missing per point #10.

But it seems like the State had evidence of many other pings - 44 to be precise, but they didn't bother to tell the Defence until November 9, 2023?? What the heck? Why would they not?

Further, it would seem that there were 2 pings from Feb 13, 2017 - at 5:48pm & 7:16pm. (point #13).

How does the State explain their failure to tell the Defence this information?? Then point #22 states that the phone pinged AGAIN on Feb 14, 2017 at 4:33am. Clearly it wasn't turned off or out of the area at that point if it pinged the tower again, right??? So what happened? Did the kids (and the phone) leave the area and come back? Did the phone travel with someone in a turned off state and then get returned to the spot where it was found under the body? Did it get put in airplane mode and then taken out of airplane mode for it to ping again? Would airplane mode have prevented it pinging?

This is very weird so I hope the State has a darn good explanation for the entire situation!

The defense is just lying, don't you get it?

Just kidding.

Agree with everything you said, and it sure will be interesting to see what the State says.

 

[gremlin444]

re: criminal defendants being allowed into judges' chambers

From different "Ask a Lawyer" type sites, the answer I'm seeing from both prosecutors and defense attorneys is No. If a meeting with a defendant is required, it happens in the courtroom.
There is no law against it. However, after reading several lengthy documents from several states and organizations, I see one factor being emphasized over and over when it comes to the layout/setup/design of the judge's chambers: security.

Top design areas of focus: a private secured/controlled access entrance to the building for the judge that goes directly into a private secured hallway that leads to their chambers. Depending on the layout of the building, a private secured/controlled access for the judge. They emphasis the need for privacy and security for the judge's office within the chambers (chambers usually include a conference room, room for clerks/secretaries, storage for documents, a private bathroom for the judge connected to their private office). They talk about having a light/alarm that alerts staff/judge in chambers when a defendant is being escorted out of the courtroom if the private hallway for the chambers is also used for the defendant and escort team. They pointed out that the security measures are there not only for the judge but for his/her staff as well. The documents only mention defense attorneys and prosecutors having meetings in the judge's private office.

A few examples:
National Center for State Courts:

Judge's Chambers

www.ncsc.org

https://www.ncsc.org/__data/assets/pdf_file/0032/78647/Best-Practices-for-Court-Building-Security.pdf

https://www.illinoiscourts.gov/Resources/bd93304f-8a12-4d92-aecb-56ee75b95cc1/Courtroom_Standards.pdf

 

[Megnut]

Weren't those attorneys given an opportunity to be heard in open court and resigned in chambers instead? Therefore wasn't it their decision which prevented RA from witnessing it on the record?

Defendants in Judge's chambers -- that defies all sense. Attorneys, yes. They are agents of the court. Attorneys, yes. They represent defendants. Defendants, no. Hard stop.

JMO

 

[TTF14]

Weren't those attorneys given an opportunity to be heard in open court and resigned in chambers instead? Therefore wasn't it their decision which prevented RA from witnessing it on the record?

That is one way of looking at it. She made them choose between being publicly shamed in the one and only hearing she wanted livestreamed and having their client present for the conversation.

Tough decision I'm sure.

IMO MOO

 

[vinayd]

I really wish she would have removed them formally but she tried to be nice about it. Being kind often bites us.
In any job, if someone was killed... I believe the supervisor would ask you to turn in all your files and they will follow up with next steps. And or you would be fired on the spot. If the matter wasn't so serious I would understand the frustration with her not doing it the "right way". They knew why they were being called in that office that day.

 

[photographer4]

So LG's cell phone - was what, an iPhone 6 or? Why I'm asking - what was the battery life likely to be on that device in 2017? I have to wonder now - didn't LE tell us that the last phone ping was at 2:30am on the 14th and that is why they went back out to search? Did she have / carry a battery pack with her that day? I'm asking because she was recording photos / video and using snapchat as they walked along the trail that day - those are likely to be battery hogs. Especially if other apps were running in the background.

How was it able to ping on the 14th @ 4:33am? If it pinged some 44 other times per the doc I linked upthread, then what info is available about those pings? Time? Location (which tower?). And if it stopped pinging for a long period of time, which seems to have happened per the doc linked upthread... how is that possible? Unless someone turned it off / airplane mode / recovered it / maybe charged it?

Something is weird about this, no? If the killer left it where it was found from the timeline LE gave us, it should have kept right on pinging until it died, or the kids were found, unless someone interfered with its ability to do so by shutting it off / airplane mode OR someone found it dead, charged it back up and left it where it was found thereby allowing it to ping again?